This week we’re talking about what the CCP and TRS share price movements mean for the economy, the wheat price, the ‘year of the bond’, the difference between ETFs and LICs, and we have our interview with listener Brent Sweeney who recently attended the Berkshire Hathaway AGM in Omaha, Nebraska!

Transcription

631 Club Final

[00:00:00] Cameron: Welcome back to QAV Tony. This is episode 631. We’re recording this on the 1st of August. You’re in the great metropolis of Wagga Wagga again this week.

[00:00:24] Tony: I am. Yes, the great metropolis. The overcast, cold metropolis of Wagga Wagga.

[00:00:29] Cameron: How’s the golf in Wagga Wagga this week?

[00:00:31] Tony: Don’t know yet. We’re playing tomorrow and Thursday.

[00:00:34] Tony: Right here

[00:00:34] Cameron: last night. Ah, right. Well, what else is news TK before we get into stuff? Anything else you want to report?

[00:00:41] Tony: In my life or in the stock market? Yeah,

[00:00:43] Cameron: no, in your life. What’s going on? You

[00:00:45] Tony: good? I was saving it for after hours, but I’ve been down at Cape Shank. I spent some time with Alex. Which was nice, lovely.

[00:00:51] Tony: She’s busily painting for her first affordable art show

[00:00:55] Cameron: gig.

[00:00:56] Tony: It’s cool. Went to the MCG a [00:01:00] couple of times to watch football, which was good fun. Caught up with some friends.

[00:01:04] Cameron: Did you get a new Starlink?

[00:01:06] Tony: It’s, I think it’s been delivered to Sydney. So I’ll pick it down

[00:01:10] Cameron: next time. I read a report the other day.

[00:01:12] Cameron: Did you know that? Elon Musk, since 2019, has been sending a rocket into space every week with a dozen or so satellites on it. He now has over four and a half thousand satellites in space, which is more than 50% of all the satellites in space are now owned by… Starlink, Musk, I mean, one of his operations, his plan in the next few years is to get that up to 42, 000 satellites around the Earth.

[00:01:44] Cameron: They said it’s already, there’s already so many satellites now that it’s starting to affect astronomers ability to see the night sky. He’s going to increase that by tenfold in the next few years. And they’re all going to be flashing a big bright X logo to promote. But [00:02:00] just think about that, like, we’ve been putting satellites into space since the 50s.

[00:02:04] Cameron: He in four years has put up the majority of them in the last few years. I guess it pays to own your own rocket company. Yeah.

[00:02:12] Tony: Well, it’s more, I found a shoebox sized each satellite. So they’re not that big. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, like, but what, I mean, my issue is that is how reliable is it all? Because my Starlink busted and I called the guy who installed it after mucking around for a while myself and going online and trying to get help and things, which was hopeless.

[00:02:32] Tony: And he said, yeah, everyone’s having troubles, mate. Just, just. Send them an email, they’ll send you a new one. Right. It’s, yeah, it’s not very good.

[00:02:39] Cameron: Well, it’s good customer service though, if they’re replacing it. It’s like Apple customer service. You take in your iPhone, yeah, just have another one.

[00:02:44] Tony: Yeah. No, that, uh, for sure, it’s good that way.

[00:02:46] Tony: But I can’t be making much money if he’s sending up all those satellites with rockets and then basically giving away the equipment for free as well, because it breaks.

[00:02:55] Cameron: You have to wonder what he’s going to do when he’s got 42, 000 of them up there, what his plan is. Apart [00:03:00] from Starlink.

[00:03:01] Tony: It’s going to look like, it’s going to look like Trantor.

[00:03:04] Tony: Isn’t that the, is it Trantor? The middle of the foundation where it’s, it’s been so overdeveloped. It’s got a big iron circle around it.

[00:03:13] Cameron: Well, maybe the, you know, they’ll capture the sunlight and beam it back down to earth as energy, but you have to pay 99 bucks a month to get your sunlight. To charge, to charge your car.

[00:03:24] Cameron: Anyway, let’s talk about the market. I did. Our portfolio analysis this morning, we’re still up, you know, two and a half times the index since inception. It’s been, it’s been sort of a flat week for us. Our portfolio was down 0. 41% over the last week, but old mate, TRS was the stock of the week. It was up seven, which is interesting because I saw that this morning.

[00:03:53] Cameron: I was like, Oh, I wonder what that. Is means for where the market thinks the economy is going when the reject [00:04:00] shop is up 7% in a week, but then today CCP took a 15% hit. They came out with their results and apparently the, the Australian economy is doing much better than people thought. Chanticleer wrote about it in the Financial Review.

[00:04:19] Cameron: Why this 15% share price plunge is good for the economy. Investors punished distressed lender Credit Corp after it revealed very good news for the rest of us. The number of Australians who can’t pay their bills is hardly rising. The interest rate rises. The number of Australians struggling to pay their credit card bills is small and showing few signs of growth, despite repeated interest rate rises, the soaring cost of living and a softening economy.

[00:04:43] Cameron: Credit Corp boss Thomas Bereggi, whose business buys books of distressed credit card and personal loans customers off the banks, says the Australian consumer is still in really good shape with few borrowers, either in arrears or default. Does that come as some, [00:05:00] what of a surprise to you, Tony?

[00:05:02] Tony: What does come as a surprise is that Thomas Bereggi does this every year, if not every half.

[00:05:08] Tony: And, and… And the share price reacts accordingly. So he’s a classic under promiser and over deliverer. Right. So, yeah, the results came out today and good on Credit Corp. They’re always first off the first cab off the rank, you know, so it can’t be too hard to have your results out a month after the. Shut off of the books, but you know, everyone drags their feet except for Credit Corp.

[00:05:32] Tony: Anyway, he’s first out, he always says, consensus forecast is too high. We’ve had a good year, uh, profits up 10%, blah, blah, blah, but gee, next year’s looking tough. It’s been like that for at least 15 years, he’s been around for a long time and every half I see him do it. So I’d, I’d be. You know, I’m quite relaxed about Credit Corp and the results and I’ll just watch it rebound because it tends to do this [00:06:00] thing.

[00:06:00] Tony: And this is a, this is a probably an indictment of the fund managers who follow it. Surely. If you’re following this company, you’ve seen Barigi and his pattern, uh, over the years and you know that he’s going to come out and say, we’ve had a good year, but the future looks bleak and that resets the share price.

[00:06:15] Tony: And then he, you know, outperforms and the share price booms, that’s been the modus operandi for a long time. So. Yeah, I’m, I’m thinking that it’s a buying opportunity when share, when credit court drops like this, another selling, another selling opportunity, another must sell on this drop.

[00:06:33] Cameron: Somebody asked on the Facebook group if you would rule one or just hold on.

[00:06:41] Cameron: And, uh, would you make an exception because of the circumstances? And I, I replied, Tony never makes an exception with the rules except for when he

[00:06:49] Tony: does. Yeah, correct. Well, it’s still above my rule one price. Yeah, mine too. And it’s still above a three point trend line, so it’s sell price. So, yeah, if it keeps going down, sure, there might be [00:07:00] something that the analysts have picked up on that I think it’ll rebound.

[00:07:04] Tony: Yeah, Chatterclear

[00:07:05] Cameron: didn’t mention that he does this all the time either. You would think that the financial review would have some sense of history, but you know, no one remembers history. Tony, it’s one thing that I believe. Yeah, true.

[00:07:16] Tony: But also too, I mean, I think Credit Corp is more than just credit card bad debts as well.

[00:07:21] Tony: They, they do utility companies. They now offer loans to people because they’ve got a great credit profile for them after working with them to repay bad debts. They’re in the U. S. So, you know, it’s not just credit cards because credit cards would probably be a worry because I think I haven’t seen numbers recently, but I think they’re in decline around the world as things like after pay have come in and young people in particular have worked out that, you know, it’s not a great deal to put something on the credit card and pay 21% interest on it.

[00:07:53] Tony: So that kind of business model is, it’s still around, but it’s not as strong as it used to be. So, but Thomas Brigg, he’s [00:08:00] never called out as a problem for them. So. I think he’ll be fine. Well,

[00:08:05] Cameron: an Australian… Household debt levels record high and the highest in the world? For

[00:08:11] Tony: mortgages, yeah. I guess it’s all debt, but the large part of that would be housing mortgages, I would have thought.

[00:08:16] Tony: Right.

[00:08:17] Cameron: I’m looking at an article here from a few years ago. It says, credit card debt only makes up 1. 9% of all household debt. Makes

[00:08:25] Tony: sense. Because half, roughly half of the people who have a credit card never pay debt. They just, what they call, Revolvers, they pay their balance off every month and collect the points, which is pretty much what I do.

[00:08:36] Tony: And then, you know, redeem. Can’t buy something with the points. Yeah. When you’ve got enough, you have to fly or something. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, it’s a strange business model. It’s been successful in the past. It’s probably going to be successful in the future, but it’s probably not growing at the rates it used to grow at.

[00:08:52] Tony: Right. But anyway, back to your original point, the reject shop, I think, did they just change their CEOs? Would that be behind their [00:09:00] recent share price rise, perhaps? But yeah, people might be expecting that they’ll do well given a recession. Discretionary retail has been dropping. Leading up to reporting season, I expect to see a rebound because, you know, surprise, surprise, the economists who can predict the future saying we may not go into a recession now.

[00:09:19] Tony: So the discretionary retailers have been hard hit might actually start to bounce back from their share price lows and the reject shop might be caught up in that. But yeah, I take your point. If, if the economy is looking bad, so the reject shop will do well. But then Credit Corp should do well and it’s not.

[00:09:37] Tony: So it’s, it’s, it’s strange. And that’s probably just indicative of the market. No one can really predict what’s going on. I read another article on today’s Fin Review where there was, I think it was now the majority of the economists in the US have changed their tune. It’s not going to be a difficult landing or a recession over there.

[00:09:53] Tony: It’s going to be okay. And they’re all saying, oh, we should have been in stocks this year. You know, don’t, don’t trust crystal ball [00:10:00] gazes, I guess is the, is the, is the learning out of all

[00:10:04] Cameron: this. Well, there was an article on July 17th in the Financial Review says discount giant Dollarama seeks bargain at the reject shop.

[00:10:13] Cameron: Despite economic headwinds, there’s been no lack of activity in the local retail sector and profit warnings from some of the country’s highest profile brands from Harvey Norman to Best and Lest and Adair’s have not dulled interest in Australia from one major overseas retailer, Canada’s Dollarama. The Montreal headquartered discount chain.

[00:10:32] Cameron: Sources told Street Talk that Dollarama had approached the reject shop. The ASX listed discount retailer whose largest shareholder is billionaire businessman Raphael Giminda’s kin group. Assisting the reject shop with those discussions was UBS, they added. So maybe they’re in the middle of an acquisition play.

[00:10:53] Cameron: Yeah,

[00:10:53] Tony: it’s possible. Could be a takeover play as well. Yeah. But my sense is it’s going to be something like that rather than people [00:11:00] forecasting what’s going to happen to the economy.

[00:11:01] Cameron: Right. Yeah, well, their share share prices jumped in the last, well, since that article came out on July 17th, coincidentally, they were trading at 4.

[00:11:11] Cameron: 50 on July 17th and now trading at 5. 30. So, you know, it’s been a corker couple of weeks. So thank you Dollarama for that little boost to our portfolio. If it’s even true. I’m sure it has nothing to do with getting the story out there. Hey, speaking of things that aren’t true. A couple of weeks ago on the show, somebody asked the question about differing wheat prices.

[00:11:34] Cameron: We had a wheat price on Stock Doctor. We had a wheat price on Trading Economics. Can’t remember who asked it. Might’ve been me. Might’ve been somebody else. Might’ve been Alex. I don’t know. Anyway, I went back to Stock Doctor. And asked them about it, and they came back to me a couple of days ago saying, our development team have found an error in our data.

[00:11:54] Cameron: There was a drop in the value of our feed from 636 to 1 62 on [00:12:00] the 29th of March 21. Several other commodity prices are affected, such as copper and heating oil. 21. That’s copper really, two and a half years ago. The value of their commodity prices took a hit and we alerted them to it a couple of weeks ago.

[00:12:21] Cameron: So, well, two points there. Number one, don’t rely on Stock Doctor’s commodity prices for wheat, copper, or heating oil. Secondly, if we do ever spot discrepancies, because remember we’re on the show going, what’s going on here? And you’re like, yeah, I can’t make sense of it. Well, we should trust our gut and always go back to Stock Doctor and say, Hey, What’s going on here?

[00:12:43] Cameron: Because it just might be that their data is funky as

[00:12:47] Tony: it was in this case. Yeah. Well, I think of it too, and we’re talking about data. A couple of years ago, I had to dive into Credit Corp’s data because the operating cash flow on Stock Doctor differed from the operating cash flow on their [00:13:00] annual report, which I think one of our listeners may have pointed out actually.

[00:13:04] Tony: And Stock Doctor came back and said, yeah, this is one of the. One of the few stocks they actually manipulate the data for before they release it, because they, I forget now what the actual detail was, they took a view that something was not being reported as operating cash flow and it should have been, it was being reported some other way.

[00:13:21] Tony: Right. I forget now. And they thought that it was accounting standards that didn’t really apply or shouldn’t apply or didn’t reflect what Credit Corp was doing. So they manipulate the data. So, but you just reminded me of that. And if anyone, before anyone raises a question and says, Hey, I’m not using Stock Doctor and Credit Corp doesn’t appear on my buy list, that’ll be the reason why.

[00:13:43] Cameron: Well, it was Sam actually that highlighted the wheat price differential to us. I just looked it up. So thank you, Sam, for that. And yeah, a couple of good examples there of where if we spot an error, this is why we always do, we, D Y O R if you, if you, you know, what do they say? If you see [00:14:00] something, say something as they used to say.

[00:14:02] Cameron: Was that for pedophiles? Yes.

[00:14:04] Tony: I don’t know. Wasn’t it the abandoned, abandoned luggage at airports or something? Oh,

[00:14:08] Cameron: it could have been. I don’t know. Maybe abandoned by pedophiles. Who knows? Speaking of which, R. I. P. Pee Wee Herman

[00:14:14] Tony: today. Oh really? Oh no. I thought you were going to say Sinead O’Connor. R. I. P.

[00:14:20] Cameron: Sinead O’Connor too, wasn’t she? Yeah. And more power to her for taking the heat that she took in 1992. I don’t think Pee Wee Herman was a pedophile, just to be clear, but he did get busted with some child pornography on his computer 20 years ago, and… One of the two scandals that he had to face down, but much beloved by Americans of my wife’s generation.

[00:14:42] Cameron: She absolutely adores Pee Wee Herman and so does Fox. Fox has watched all of his shows and his movies. We were just watching one of his movies about a week ago and yeah, he. Appeals to certain kind of crazy kid like Chrissy was in the eighties and foxes. Now, certainly a [00:15:00] unique character. He was not, doesn’t mean much to Australian audiences.

[00:15:04] Cameron: I think because we didn’t get him or Mr. Rogers and those things, but for Chrissy, yeah, very, very deep feelings for Peewee Herman. Well, my only other new story for today, Tony from the financial review again, shares crush year of the bond and biggest sentiment shift since 1999. This is a story out of London, July 30th.

[00:15:26] Cameron: All the chatter back in December was that 2023 was to be the year of the bond. And for a brief moment or two in the first quarter, that call and the economic doom and gloom that underpinned it look right. It is now being overrun though, by an avalanche of demand for shares that has unleashed a furious rally across the globe.

[00:15:44] Cameron: In a sign, the gains are probably far from over. It has also made investors more hopeful. about stocks relative to bonds than at any point since sentiment trader models began comparing them 24 years ago. As [00:16:00] sentiment, technicals, and risk of the recession got pushed further out, we moved from being underweight stocks to overweight, said Nathan Thupt.

[00:16:08] Cameron: Global head of asset allocation at Manulife Asset Management in Boston. And the man voted to have the best surname. He has reduced his credit exposure in favor of an equity overweight. So, weren’t we just talking like last week about. Investors pulling their money out of the share market and putting it in bonds.

[00:16:29] Tony: Yeah, that’s right. And even the week before, I think you had an article saying that someone thought the share market wasn’t paying enough as dividends now or as a return now, because you could get risk free. four or five percent in the bond market, and therefore why take the risk of getting nine or ten percent capital appreciation in the share market.

[00:16:49] Tony: And then

they’ve

[00:16:50] Tony: all come scurrying back to the share market. So honestly, I have often thought the most, the, the, that’s what I’m trying to say, the most, It’s the appendix of the [00:17:00] share market as the asset allocator. Seriously, they’re like, they get paid a squillion dollars to sit there and go, bonds this year and 51% shares.

[00:17:09] Tony: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. 48% bonds and 52%. But it’s just like, it’s just. It’s, it’s silly. You work out what’s going to be the best asset class long term, put all your assets there. But these guys get paid to try and read a crystal ball about whether they should be in bonds or shares or some other asset.

[00:17:28] Tony: And no one ever goes back and says, how did you, how did you go? They never get held to account. It’s, it’s, you know, the fund gets held to account if it doesn’t perform, but these asset allocators, I mean, fair dinkum, they may as well work for the RBA. That’s, you know, it’s that kind of hocus pocus detailed report that you just, you just ignore it.

[00:17:48] Tony: Just stay, as we’ve said, as I’ve said many, many, many times, just stay fully invested. Don’t, don’t worry about trying to predict the future. Yeah, you might suffer some setbacks for a while, but you know, over [00:18:00] time, the escalator goes up in the share market. So there’s no point trying to time it. Well,

[00:18:04] Cameron: you know, I often think I’m, I’m so grateful that I have QAV to educate me about this stuff because if I was going by the articles I read in the financial, like one week, it’s shares are fucked, you know, my bonds the following week, it’s, ah, don’t worry about bonds, invest in

[00:18:19] Tony: Shazoo.

[00:18:20] Tony: Come

[00:18:20] Cameron: on. What? What am I supposed to do, people? Like…

[00:18:25] Tony: Yeah, and it is driven by news events. I don’t know how many fund managers there are around the world, and they’re all put out of the press release talking about the minute allocation changes to their portfolios. It keeps the fund review in print, in newsprint, but it’s, it’s completely useless information.

[00:18:41] Cameron: And if you look at the, the Australian share market, look at the all ordinaries, I mean, it’s had a pretty good couple of months. I mean, three months, really. I mean, we’re, we’re above where we were back at the beginning of May. It dropped over the course of May though, been since the beginning of June’s way up, dropped again at the beginning [00:19:00] of July, but has been up.

[00:19:01] Cameron: Consistently since then, but it’s been positive over the last three months. It almost feels like we’ve turned a corner in overall sentiment of the share market. But again, who knows? But it just goes to what you always say. Stay invested. You never know when the market’s turned around until you can look back at it with some, you know, retrospective glasses.

[00:19:24] Tony: Correct. And, and I, you know, I wonder how much of these changes to asset allocations are people going, shit, we’ve missed the turning point in the market, quick jump in because it’s up, it’s up 10%, which is just, you know, classic late to the party sort of investing styles. It’s a. Strange way to do it.

[00:19:41] Cameron: The All Lords is almost back to where it was six months ago.

[00:19:45] Cameron: Started February at 7, It’s currently 4. It’s been a choppy ride, but you know, with, uh, the bottom of the market in the last six months was in March 7 it’s [00:20:00] way up since then. So, you know, all the people that sort of capitulated in March, April, May, June have missed out. At this stage on a very nice run.

[00:20:12] Cameron: Anyway.

[00:20:13] Tony: Yeah, they’ll be back. That run of the 10 or 20 percent, they’ll come back. Yeah. Hello, Alex.

[00:20:19] Cameron: What do you have for us today as our official reader of questions? Yes.

[00:20:25] Alex: Thank you. I have a question from Jeff. So he says, good morning. Kung Fu master cam. I hope you and your family are doing well. A podcast question from a beginner or, or alternatively hands off investment perspective.

[00:20:39] Alex: There is often talk in investment circles about the value of ETFs, a great place to start. Or alternatively, oh yeah, to set and forget investing. Why does there seem to be no discussion about LICs or maybe LITs? I listen to Marcus Padley and also Equity Mate’s finance podcasts. While these podcasts are very high level, no system, they [00:21:00] will often talk about the value of ETFs.

[00:21:02] Alex: Same with market index and NAB trade newsletters, LICs and LITs, definitely secret squirrel stuff. I remember TK talking about including licks in his will. Linda and I did similar when we redid our will. Is it because of performance, fees, unfranked dividends, something else, all of the above? Just checking and always learning more.

[00:21:21] Alex: QAB is definitely the right place for that. Thanks again to you and TK for all your great work. I add my QAB subscription to my portfolio of solid investments. Oh, that’s

[00:21:31] Tony: nice, Jeff. Yeah. Thanks, Jeff. Yeah. I mean, we’ve, we’ve spoken about this before over the years, but it’s worth revisiting, I think. So the couple of questions in there, why do people kind of focus on ETFs rather than LICs or sometimes LIF, LITs and I’ll, until I talk about the difference between LICs and LITs, I’ll just refer to them as LICs.

[00:21:52] Tony: ETFs.

[00:21:56] Tony: suit index style investing because [00:22:00] their fees are very, very low and they’ve kind of, there’s enough experience in running them now that they can mimic an index and be run quite cheaply. So that’s really what they’re good for. Whereas an LIC tends to be for an active manager, so that they can raise some money, um, and then invest it, they’ll charge higher fees, uh, because they’re, they’re doing more work, both themselves and in terms of, you know, visiting companies and analyzing reports and, and data and then buying and selling shares, so their fees are always higher.

[00:22:35] Tony: And generally they charge performance fees as well, which ETS don’t. So oftentimes it’s, uh, it’s the old two and 20 model though. No one charges 20% these days that I know of. It’s usually around 1 to 2% for management fees, and then usually about 10%, sometimes a bit more, about performance of the, of the LOC.

[00:22:56] Tony: Why, why are those two structures? That [00:23:00] way, why have they evolved that way? Well, LICs, the big difference between ETFs and LICs is that LICs are what’s called a closed end fund. So in other words, if you’re, if you’re raising money, if you’re starting an LIC, you raise all the money, you put it into a fund, and then you issue shares to people, and if they want to sell their shares, they find someone else to buy them, which is what the stock market.

[00:23:24] Tony: does for them. An ETF, which is an open ended fund, works differently. So if you buy shares in an ETF, they’ll go out and take your money and buy more shares for the index fund that they’re, they’re running. And if you sell shares in an ETF, they’ll have to sell underlying shares to pay you out. So the, the reason why LICs tend to attract active fund managers is because when the market turns down, even though the share price for the LIC might drop as people sell shares, The underlying funds aren’t changed.

[00:23:53] Tony: They can just simply sit there and write it out and then start to reinvest when the market looks like it’s going to turn up again. [00:24:00] Whereas an ETF will get smaller and smaller and smaller as the market drops and people get scared and they sell their, their stakes in the, in the ETF. So that’s probably the main reason why LICs and ETFs have evolved to one be passive and the other be active.

[00:24:16] Tony: That, that closed ended fund thing is a, is a big deal. And that’s why I prefer LICs because I’d rather see the, the fund stay intact when the market’s turning down this again, the same discussion we had before about always being invested. Because if you are having to sell out, if you’re an ETF and you’re selling out as the market drops because people are redeeming it’s, it’s, you know, it’s the worst time to sell.

[00:24:38] Tony: You don’t want to sell when the market’s dropping. You want to sell, you know, at the top if you can, but you certainly don’t want to sell at the bottom. So. That’s, that’s a problem I think with ETFs. But having said all that, if all you want to do is, is invest in an index fund, then an ETF is the way to go because they generally charge like about 0.

[00:24:58] Tony: 25% [00:25:00] as a management fee. So there’s not too much friction on, on the index like returns. And. The ETF market now is so large, largely driven, pioneered by the US, but, but now in Australia as well, you can pretty much buy an ETF for almost any sort of index you want to, like a tech index or the Australian index or the NASDAQ or commodity index, like gold index or whatever.

[00:25:24] Tony: And it won’t cost you very much to invest in those things. So that’s attractive to some people as well. They might decide that they want to invest in tech stocks, but don’t want to do the work to work out which ones to buy. They just buy them all and pay a low fee to do it. So, so that both ETFs and LICs have benefits.

[00:25:42] Tony: The other thing to say then is the difference between LICs and LITs. So listed investment companies versus listed investment trusts. The companies. Companies, and when they have a tax event, so they’ve earned income either through dividends or selling shares, they pay company tax at the company [00:26:00] tax rate of 30%.

[00:26:01] Tony: And being a company, it’s up to the directors as to when and how much they pay out. In profits or pay out in dividends of their profits, whereas a listed investment trust, being a trust means that you don’t own shares in a company, you own units in a trust. And just like a family trust, if anyone out there has one, they would know that every year, all of the income is distributed in a trust structure.

[00:26:27] Tony: And so there’s no ability to control the flow of the profit out of the trust. It just has to all go. And then once you receive it and If they’ve earned franking credits, if the trust has earned franking credits, they also get distributed to the trust, the unit trust holders, and then it’s up to them as to what their tax rate is, depending on whether it’s a personal tax rate, which could be high or could be low.

[00:26:52] Tony: Or whether the superannuation fund or something else has bought the units in the trust for them. So again, there’s swings and roundabouts with [00:27:00] both of those. I tend to favor again, listed investment companies, because having that discretion to continue to pay dividends, even if they don’t have the profits to support them, like they can dip into reserves and retain profits if they want to.

[00:27:14] Tony: If directors feel that it’s a bit of a one off bad year this year, and they’re going to still pay a dividend, they can do that. Whereas a listed investment trust, if it earned no money that year, you don’t get any income from it. So it’s, it’s more volatile from that respect. And you might get a lot of income one year, when you, which you didn’t plan off, plan on, and that could push you into a higher tax rate as well.

[00:27:33] Tony: So there are implications for that kind of difference in the structure. So I prefer LICs because they’re closed ended. And they don’t have to sell in a downturn. And because the directors can decide when and how much to pay dividends, regardless of how much money that they’ve made that year. They obviously can’t pay dividends if they’ve got no retained profits and they’ve made no money that year.

[00:27:54] Tony: But generally, a well managed listed investment company will keep retained profits to get it through the So they can still [00:28:00] keep paying dividends, much the same as any sort of listed company that’s well managed will do as well. So that’s the difference. ETFs are the flavor of the month and they, and, you know, if we think about the investment ladder, the buying an index fund is.

[00:28:16] Tony: Oftentimes people’s first step into the share market and they may go no further because it’s a great way to invest for the long term. If you’re like Alex’s age, you can buy an index fund and hold it for the rest of your life and you’ll get at least the market return. Or if you’re putting it into your will, you have to be a kid who may not understand investing.

[00:28:34] Tony: It’s not a bad thing to do as well. And that’s what Warren Buffett is doing. Although I don’t think he lists, he doesn’t call it an ETF, he calls it an index fund, which they do in the States. Uh, so yeah, benefits for both. Um, I’m attracted to the closing structure of an LIC and also to, because they’re managed by active managers, they, the good ones do outperform the market.

[00:28:56] Tony: And we’ve had Washington sold Patterson’s on before [00:29:00] I’ve spoken, I’ve spoken about Wilson asset management and their stable of LICs of, of recent times, even though they claim a good long term performance of recent times, they’re more focused on paying out a high dividend. Ratio, which will suit retirees, for example, I think that year last time I had a look was about 7% plus franking credit.

[00:29:19] Tony: So their capital appreciation hasn’t been that great, but they certainly do do a good job of giving retirees a really good dividend, frank dividend to live off.

[00:29:33] Cameron: Would Berkshire be a, an LIC, an example of an LIC?

[00:29:36] Tony: No, it’s a good question. Actually, it’s, it’s generally seen as a conglomerate because it actually owns operating companies as well.

[00:29:44] Tony: So, so the. The section of Berkshire Hathaway, which just buys shares on the U S stock exchange, which is only about, I think about a quarter of their business. Yeah. You LLC. That’s the same sort of thing, but they do own the railroads and the insurance businesses, et [00:30:00] cetera. So it’s more like a West farm.

[00:30:02] Tony: It’s their conglomerate. Yeah. Okay.

[00:30:04] Cameron: Fair point. All right, Alex, time for you to take a test now. Are you ready? Yep. Yeah. Ready? I gotta make you say, Oh, okay.

[00:30:17] Tony: You passed the test. Thank you. I

[00:30:19] Alex: was reading up on them, the difference between ETFs and LICs, and it was saying that it was on Canstar’s website, I think.

[00:30:27] Alex: And they were saying that more often than not, LICs have a like, they were talking about net asset value and that it’s pretty similar for an ETF to its net asset value. But for most LICs, they’re quite a bit lower than the net asset value. I don’t know. Dad, does that make sense?

[00:30:45] Tony: Yeah, thank you. It does. No, it’s one, one element I neglected to mention, but yes, they, it’s, it’s a complex sort of structure in some respects, even though it’s a simple premise, but they have what’s called a market maker sitting between the person [00:31:00] buying and selling the shares and the underlying shares being bought and sold and that, that market maker will always trade so that if the, if the ETF is say, if the, if all of the shares in the ETF were divided by all of this, the shares, Sorry, if all of the assets in the ETF, so the companies they bought shares in, is divided up by the number of people who own shares in the ETF, then the value of the assets they bought will equal the value of the shares on issue, if that makes sense.

[00:31:31] Tony: And there’s actually someone sitting in between actively doing that. So it’s very rare to see an ETF. Get out of alignment with what the underlying value of the fund is in terms of its share price, but an LIC because it’s a closed ended fund can trade at an asset, sorry, a discount to its. Assets that they hold or it can actually try to the premium to the assets that they hold and so it depends on the LIC.

[00:31:56] Tony: So that’s been a bit of a thing in the last few years [00:32:00] and people like Jeff Wilson have been going around and buying up other LICs if they have a big discount to their assets. Because it’s, it’s buying a dollar’s worth of assets for 80 cents, for example, and then, you know, realizing the, the value of the underlying assets, either by selling the shares or by putting them with one of his other LICs, which don’t create a discount.

[00:32:21] Tony: However, sometimes his flagship fund, WAM, Wilson Asset Management Trades, are the A premium to your underlying assets, and that’s a factor of the fact that it pays a high dividend yield, which is attractive to some people. So they’re prepared to pay a dollar for a dollar five for a dollar’s worth of assets because they’re getting seven or 8% in the dividend yield every year, which is attractive to retirees.

[00:32:43] Tony: So, yeah, good point, Alex. ETFs should always trade at their asset value and LICs can trade above or below or at their asset value. And yeah, for a long, for a long time, I haven’t done it for a while, but for a long time, I used to buy into those [00:33:00] LICs that were undervalued and wait for them to return that kind of the performance back to their asset value.

[00:33:08] Tony: And that can be done in a number of ways. It can just be done over time because the market hasn’t liked them for whatever reason, like the assets that they hold are out of favor. They might be, you know, they might hold coal stocks or oil stocks or something like that. But over time, the, the. You know, even those become attractive as their performance improves.

[00:33:27] Tony: It could be that they’ll get bought out by someone like Jeff Wilson, who will buy out the LIC, and then he’ll have to pay a dollar for the underlying assets, or, that’s not true, sorry, he might, he might pay the cover price, so 80 cents in the dollar, but then he’ll You know, sell the assets and return them to the other shareholders or mixing them with one of his funds.

[00:33:47] Tony: So you get, you get the extra 20% back through that or sometimes in a fairly extreme case, the fund manager just gives up and they sell the, they sell the underlying assets and make a return of capital. So you get your. [00:34:00] 20% underperformance back that way. But, but generally it’s, it’s not a bad way to invest, especially if you’re starting out, have a look at ICs, have a look at Morningstar every month, we’ll put out a report, which will tell you information about the LIC, like its size, how it invests, and then give you its NTA, which is its next tangible assets, which is, which have to be reported at least monthly.

[00:34:24] Tony: I think most LICs, a lot of LICs report them or some LICs report them weekly. Everyone has to report them monthly, and I’ll also tell you how much of the premium or discount their share price is to that tangible asset. And you can use that as a great starting guide to see if you, if you can find a a good LIC trading beneath its asset value and whether you want to invest in it.

[00:34:47] Tony: So the bad way to start an investment investing career. Well, I just wanted

[00:34:50] Alex: to ask with, so you’re saying kind of people starting out and then people who are potentially retiring or putting like dividing up a will or something like that, [00:35:00] but what about kind of mid career investors who might be doing QAB?

[00:35:03] Alex: Would there be a reason why they would also want to invest in LICs?

[00:35:07] Tony: Yes. Okay. So I, I’ve used those examples as just generally people who might find them attractive, but anyone can find an LIC or an ETF attractive. So people who are doing, you know, might decide that they, they like the idea of buying an asset for 80 and a dollar, and they might look at some LICs as well as QAB as a way of.

[00:35:28] Tony: I’ve tried to spot value in the market, so they could do that. I know a lot of our listeners are busy professionals and they might decide that I know I’m going to be busy for the next year or so, so I don’t have time to do QoV. So they might buy a portfolio of LICs, which is what I did when we went overseas once that there was a, there was another tax benefit of doing it, but I bought LICs that were undervalued when we went over to Canada.

[00:35:56] Tony: So there are some reasons to do it, you know, for personal [00:36:00] reasons, but no, it’s certainly something anyone can do at any stage in their life. I guess the why I said it would suit someone starting out is because of that Morningstar report that comes out every month and says, Hey, here are all the undervalued assets in the list of investments.

[00:36:16] Tony: Company space world. And so if you’re a value investor, it’s a really easy way to start getting your head around buying, buying an asset for 80 cents in a dollar. Whereas, you know, using QIV, I guess QIV because we’ve systematized that makes it easy. But if you, you know, if you didn’t have QIV and you’re trying to go out into the market and value individual companies and work out their intrinsic values, that’s a bit, a bit more difficult to do than just looking at that.

[00:36:43] Tony: Morningstar report and finding a, an LIC that’s large and has been around for a long time that’s trading at a discount to its assets. Well, sounds good. Thank you.

[00:36:53] Cameron: And remind me why we don’t include LICs on our buy lists now, Tony. We did at one point and [00:37:00] then we stopped doing it.

[00:37:01] Tony: Yeah, because one of our key metrics is operating cash flow and ETFs, the operating cash flow looks like it’s the buying and selling of the ETF.

[00:37:10] Tony: So like if they have lots of people buying into the ETF, that operating cash flow looks strong. And if there’s, if they have lots of redemptions, their operating cash flow can be negative. So that didn’t suit. And the similar thing for LICs. It wasn’t that they were, the buying and selling of the shares doesn’t affect the operating cash flow, but the operating cash flow can, can be affected by things like, you know, a capital return for one of the stocks that they hold or bumper dividends being paid that year or something like that.

[00:37:39] Tony: So, it’s not like the operating cash flow for our coffee shop. Where if operating cash flow is going up, it generally means that the shop is growing and, and doing well. For a list of investment companies, it can be ad hoc reasons for the operating cash flow going up or down. Right.

[00:37:54] Cameron: So it’s hard to really measure.

[00:37:56] Cameron: Yeah.

[00:37:58] Tony: You can measure the value [00:38:00] of the company much more easily because like I said every month, they tell you what the underlying assets are worth. The operating cash flow can go up or down depending on whether they bought stocks or they’re paying dividends, what time of year is it with dividends coming in or going out or whatever.

[00:38:12] Tony: So, and realized gains and unrealized gains. So, you know, if they happen to sell a lot of stocks, This quarter, then operating cashflow is going to look really good in a listed investment company, but that’s different to, like I said, a coffee shop type company, which if they have high operating cashflow, it probably means they’ve sold a heck of a lot of coffee, which is great for the company.

[00:38:33] Tony: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks.

[00:38:36] Cameron: Thanks, Alex. Great, Al. Talk to you next week. See you next week.

[00:38:40] Tony: Thanks, hon. Bye. Bye. All right. All right. That was a good question. It was a good question. Talking about those things. Yeah. Thanks, Jeff. Yeah, and I guess we, we haven’t spoken about the investment ladder for a long time, but LICs were on the investment ladder.

[00:38:55] Tony: So like I said before, it’s a good way of learning about value in the market and I guess [00:39:00] about quality because sometimes things are cheap for a reason. So if an LIC is trading it at a discount, it might be because the underlying Uh, stocks are all going down, so the share price is ahead of the, the assets because the assets are only reported monthly.

[00:39:15] Tony: Um, so that’s, you know, something to learn. Uh, and then we also talked about, you know, putting together your own, um, index funds. So generally, on the, in the Australian scene anyway, the, the Ord, Ordinary’s index is is heavily weighted towards the top 10 or top 20 stocks in the market. And if you wanted to put together your own index fund, you just buy those.

[00:39:38] Tony: And then every quarter say, or every half, maybe half when the results come out, you know, rebalance it, check, check to see if that company is still in the top 10 or top 20 and sell it. If it’s not by the replacement, if it is, and You might find that’s even cheaper than paying the management expense ratio on a, on an ETF to track the index.

[00:39:58] Cameron: Awesome, Tony. Right. [00:40:00] Do you have any other news items you want to talk about?

[00:40:02] Tony: No, I’m good. I’ve got a pulled pork to do.

[00:40:06] Cameron: And which pork are you pulling this week, Tony? Endeavour Grill. Which was a request from…

[00:40:12] Tony: Correct. Love the request.

[00:40:14] Cameron: Yes. Thank you to whoever’s request that was. I can’t remember, but it came in late today.

[00:40:19] Tony: Oh, I can’t see it. Sorry. See if it’s… I don’t think I’ve got their name. No, I’m sorry. Anyway, it’s a good request. I like getting requests for pulled porks. However, Endeavor Group isn’t on our buy list, so I’ll just highlight that now. And share price is going down, so do not hold me responsible for this, this company going backwards after a pulled pork.

[00:40:39] Tony: But yeah, an interesting company. Endeavor Group, code is EDV. It’s Australia’s probably largest Pub operator. There is a competing company, ALE, which also has lots of pubs, but I think this will be the largest. Big owner of pubs. It also owns the old, or the ex Woolworths liquor [00:41:00] business. So it has Dan Murphy’s outlets and BWS, Beer, Wine and Spirits outlets amongst others.

[00:41:05] Tony: It owns a couple of, owns three wineries. And a couple of bottling plants, sorry, it owns fine wine, fine, let me start again. They probably are fine wines, but it owns five wineries, I meant to say, three bottling plants, 260 odd Dan Murphy’s and over 1, 400, so it’s quite a large company. And yeah, so 349 hotels and interesting background to this business, which back when I was working for Colesmar.

[00:41:32] Tony: I have a. I was exposed to it. So I know a little bit about it. So 15, 20 odd years ago, the supermarkets were getting into the liquor game and they’d seen enough evidence overseas to say that in Europe and the US to say that if the supermarket sold liquor in the store, it was obviously profitable and it would be a boost to the supermarket sales.

[00:41:55] Tony: However, licensing laws didn’t allow that in, in Australia. [00:42:00] So they. Kind of evolved to have a business model, which was to have the, the Liquorland or the BWS right beside the supermarket. So there were some synergies, I guess, in, in operating the two companies separately. But they, but they kind of got around the licensing laws, well not got around them, they, they maximized their opportunity by putting the two stores near each other.

[00:42:22] Tony: So if you were going grocery shopping and wanted liquor. You just have to go out one door and in the other, the other issue in Australia, which can be different to overseas is that the liquor licensing laws here say that the person selling the liquor has to be of legal age. So at least 18 in most States, I think, or maybe all States.

[00:42:40] Tony: And of course, supermarkets like to keep their costs low. And so the average checkout check 15 years ago in the supermarket was a school age. They, they weren’t. Even, they, they weren’t able to sell liquor, even if you could do it through the market space. And Coles and Woolworths weren’t about to hire a whole bunch of 18 year olds on their checkouts to, [00:43:00] to be able to sell liquor when they were paying the 15 year olds a lot less.

[00:43:04] Tony: So as a whole, all of this sort of business has been put together and driven by the liquor licensing laws. So 15, 20 years ago, The Coles and Woolies had grown their liquor businesses to be large businesses and we’re always looking to expand and Woolies, I guess. Got a bit of a toehold or expanded into the market by buying the Dan Murphy brand, which is the big box retailing outlets, pioneered in Victoria and then moved around to the rest of Australia.

[00:43:32] Tony: And then Woolworths, sorry, Coles very soon afterwards got into First Choice Liquor, which was their big box liquor offering. However, in states like Queensland, they were thwarted because the liquor licensing laws up there, this is just an example, it may have been the case in some of the other states as well, but in Queensland, you had to be under the public, a publican’s license to be able to sell.

[00:43:58] Tony: liquor through a bottle [00:44:00] store. So that’s why you have drive in bottle shops and bottle shops next to pubs in Queensland. And a pub could have up to three standalone bottlos in the local area under the, under its license. And that was the only way you could open a bottle shop in Queensland. And so Coles and Woolley started buying pubs and then opening, you know, a Dan Murphy’s or three Liquorland stores in the local area.

[00:44:25] Tony: using that, that hotel’s license. And around that time, they went, Oh my God, look how profitable these pubs are, largely because they have poker machines. And so that became a very profitable business. Um, and yeah, people may have read in newspaper articles about pubs trading for enormous prices. Based on what you would think they’d go for and largely because of the poker machine licenses that they get traded with them.

[00:44:51] Tony: Not always, but that’s, but you know, people are paying 20 or 30 million for a hotel that isn’t really justifying it based on the [00:45:00] public bar trade, but it is if you take into account the poker machines. So Coles and Woolies went on this rampage across Australia and started buying hotels up and loved the poker machines side of things that became quite profitable for them.

[00:45:14] Tony: Woolworths. Again, we’re pioneering in a day or the chain operator, the chain of pubs operated by a guy called Bruce Matheson in, he was in Victoria and they came up with the imaginative joint venture name of brew and woo Bruce, Bruce and Woolworths to jointly run the, the hotel chain. And that was smart of them because they got to use someone who was an owner founder, which we.

[00:45:39] Tony: Talk about a lot in QAV, have a lot of experience in the game and always got to pick his brains and use his experience to help shape their business. And it was very profitable and Coles put together a big network of hotels and poker machines under the Australian, I think it’s called the Australian Leisure, A L E, I can’t remember what the E’s were, Australian Leisure and Entertainment Group, I think.[00:46:00]

[00:46:00] Tony: So similar sort of thing. Then in probably the last sort of five or so years. The mums and, mums and families who shopped at Woolworths and Coles started to say, hey guys, we’re not comfortable with you being so heavily invested in poker machines, what are you going to do about it? And so Coles spun off its hotel chain into a separately listed vehicle, actually quite a while ago, they did it first, and then in 2021, Woolworths, spun off their hotel chain and the Dan Murphy’s and BWS’s and all the rest of it into this company Endeavor Group and Woolworths still retained 14.

[00:46:42] Tony: 5% investment in it and they still have The investment with Bruce, the joint venture with Bruce Matheson, I think, and that gives them, and that’s also been folded in, so they’ve got more than 14 and a half percent of this company, but it has taken a bit of the heat off the Woolworths brand in [00:47:00] terms of being responsible for problem gambling in Australia.

[00:47:04] Tony: And I wouldn’t be surprised if over time they may sell down their stake as, as even more heat in the ESG world is applied to them on this issue. But that’s, that’s by way of background. That’s, that’s how Endeavor Group came to be. There’s a couple of other issues that… That people should be aware of and again, if they read the paper, which I’m sure our listeners do, New South Wales has changed state governments and they’ve announced that their policy is to trial cashless gaming cards in pokey places.

[00:47:33] Tony: The, one of the government, might be AUSTRAC. One of the government departments has said that Casinos aren’t the real bad guys in the money laundering world these days, it’s poker machines. So there’s a bit of a focus on poker machines from that aspect. And the Victorian government, which is probably the biggest risk, has come out, and I think from memory said something like, you have to use a card in a pokey venue and you can only lose a certain amount per day.

[00:47:58] Tony: A hundred bucks I think it is, or it might [00:48:00] be a thousand per day. So anyway, there’s going to be a cap on, on poker machine revenues in the works for a long time, but it’s, it’s sort of slowly coming in as part of the government’s governance culture in Australia now. When the Victorian government announced their, their Muted changes, the DevaGroup share price dropped and it’s been going down pretty much ever since.

[00:48:23] Tony: So that’s a big risk for the company. But if you go to their website, they don’t talk about poker machines. It’s all about how great they are in the community and how their core business principle is getting people to meet together and enjoy their company and all that. And that’s all fine. I did. Try and go through the annual report.

[00:48:39] Tony: It didn’t break out poker machine revenue or profit, but it did break out hotels, which is about a third of their profits. Poker machines have to be a large part of that, that, so you’ve got to say maybe 15 to 20 percent is at risk if, if there is a clamp down on poker machines in Australia. But it might be even worse than that, because [00:49:00] if people don’t have a reason to go to the pub, they might revert back to how they used to be, which is, you know, where you go to have a beer after the cricket or whatever.

[00:49:08] Tony: Or after work, and the pubs become much less valuable on that basis and you know, all the money they’ve paid and sitting on and sitting on that balance sheet for these pubs and the high valuations get marked down. So, that’s a, that’s a long bow I’m drawing and it’s probably a long time into the future, but it is a risky, it is a risk for this company.

[00:49:27] Tony: Um, to go through the numbers, which is I guess what we’re here to do, and this is not a QAB stock. It is a large stock, so 31 million average daily traded, and I’m doing the analysis of the share price of 6. 10. And that’s pretty high when you compare it to IV1 of 1. 57 and IV2 of 2. 97. So it’s two times our intrinsic value, our most generous intrinsic value valuation for the company.

[00:49:54] Tony: However, it’s less than the consensus target, so the analysts still like it. It’s a borderline star stock [00:50:00] in Stock Doctor, so it gets a point for that. The yield’s reasonable at 3. 6%, but it’s not above the mortgage rate. So we don’t score it. Stock doctor health is, financial health is strong and steady. So it scores for that.

[00:50:13] Tony: If this company is almost 20 times, which is quite large, but funnily enough, it is the lowest since listing in 2021. So there’s something five halves of data there, and this is the lowest. And that’s the interesting thing about these companies. I’ve always. To me, to my mind, and I might be, I might be the only person who thinks this, companies like this are a bit of a dead zone for me, like they’re trading on a high peer, they’re facing risks, they’re not going to grow real fast because they’ve pretty much soaked up all the pubs in, in Australia.

[00:50:43] Tony: They’ll probably get organic growth from here in terms of liquor sales and things like that. So, you’re paying a kind of a growth. So the premium pay for this company, but it does face risk and it’s not really growing. In fact, the consensus forecast is for this company’s earnings per share to fall [00:51:00] by 2% next year.

[00:51:01] Tony: So it’s not even, not even a low growth company. It’s kind of fall next year, according to the, to the analyst. One bright spot is that Bruce Matheson sits on the board. So. It didn’t come out in the Stock Doctor numbers that there was an owner founder and directors, according to Stock Doctor, hold 2. 7%. But I think that’s because Mr.

[00:51:22] Tony: Matheson will have a shareholding in one of the joint ventures, this Bruin Wu joint venture, which is now called something differently, which is also a shareholder in Endeavor Group. So I think he’s kind of A couple of layers removed, but he’s on the board and he’s still there. So stock doctor, the, the bar list won’t mark it down as an owner founder, but like, I think it kind of does have an owner founder, but it’s currently a three point trend line sell.

[00:51:44] Tony: So there’s no reason to be in a hurry to buy the stock anyway, all in all quality score of four out of 15 or 27% and a QAB score of 0. 02. So what do I like about it? It’s got Bruce Matheson on the board and he’s a very successful [00:52:00] pub owner. And. And, and this, this type of business is a bit like supermarkets, actually, they’re known as defensive earning.

[00:52:08] Tony: So if we do go into a recession, people will still drink. It’ll be the last thing they cut their spending on, you know, eating and drinking. So the, the, the company’s sales won’t crash, but they won’t grow quickly either. And that’s why people bid up the price on companies like this, because it’s kind of seen as a safe harbor.

[00:52:25] Tony: However, it does carry the negatives of the, of the pokey legislation risk, which I think is, is, Is large and looming for this company. So all in all, it’s too expensive and too risky for me, and I’m quite happy to see it not on our buy

[00:52:39] Cameron: list. What, what do you think the chances are that a few years ago, the board at Woolies is like, this Pokey’s legislation is coming down the chain, let’s get rid of it, sell it off for hundreds of millions of dollars to the punters, and then when it crashes, not our problem.

[00:52:58] Tony: Yeah, well I still own at least [00:53:00] 40 and a half percent, so I, I, I, yeah, I don’t know that it may be, that may be part of it, it was, it was certainly the thinking that that was going to get, help their brand, because they pump hundreds of millions of dollars a year into Well, he’s the fresh food people and their brand and that, that costs them money.

[00:53:17] Tony: It would have cost them a lot more if they were then having to put a mandate over the poker machine, poker machine, you know, the negatives that go with poker machines that were eroding the spin on that brand. So it made sense to spin it off and, and distance their, their reputational risk. I’m not sure about they did it because they thought pokies might face stiff legislation.

[00:53:38] Tony: I think everyone’s thought that, so maybe, but the interesting thing I found about this company was they put. Dan Murphy’s and BWS into the mix and I would have thought, you know, they were good solid companies for Woolworths to keep it in its core business. So, um, that they may have had to sweeten the offer to get it away to, to make it attractive to institutional investors by putting [00:54:00] some good businesses with some potentially risky ones.

[00:54:03] Cameron: By the way, Woolies sold a third of their stake. That they had retained at the end of last year, they’re down to 9. 1% interest, according to the financial.

[00:54:12] Tony: Okay. Yeah. So that’s pretty clear. They’re trying to distance themselves away from poker machines, whether it’s because they know there’s going to be legislation change or whether it’s just from a brand point of view, they’re getting out.

[00:54:22] Cameron: Well, thanks for that, Tony. Endeavor group. I remember when that spinoff happened. I remember my mum who worked at Big W got some shares. I think all of the, well, if you own a Woolies share, you got an Endeavor share at the time. Correct. Yeah.

[00:54:39] Tony: Yeah. It was, it was spun off then, but existing World War shareholders got shares in the float as

[00:54:45] Cameron: well.

[00:54:45] Cameron: And it did, it did well for a little while. But, you know, it’s sort of, I think they launched around, listed around 6. 10 in 2021. Is that June 2021? By August [00:55:00] 2022, they’re up around 8. 30. But now they’re down to 6. 14, so back where they started. Yeah,

[00:55:07] Tony: and probably a rare example of a big company spinning off a section of the company and not doing better than the big company.

[00:55:14] Tony: That’s oftentimes why they do that. But I think the reason this time is just the Pocky’s reputation was getting too hot for Woolworths to handle and they got rid of it. Yeah, so interesting company, interesting history. It may do well in the future, but not

[00:55:27] Cameron: for me. Well, now we’re going to throw to the interview that we recorded last week with listener Brent Sweeney, who a few months ago went to the Berkshire Hathaway Annual General Meeting in Omaha, Nebraska.

[00:55:40] Cameron: Where are you, Brent?

[00:55:41] Brent: Townsville. Townsville camp.

[00:55:43] Cameron: Mate, what’s the weather like in Townsville today? Oh, beautiful, mate. Hot and sunny. How hot? Oh, I think it’d be about 20,

[00:55:51] Brent: 27,

[00:55:52] Cameron: 28 That’s what it is in my office, right? 28. 7 degrees according to my little thermometer in here, but only 22 [00:56:00] outside. I should be recording this outside.

[00:56:02] Cameron: At least we’re not in Arizona, where Chrissy’s sister and brother in law and family are. I see it’s got near 50 Celsius in Phoenix, Arizona this week, up around 48, 49, like it is in Athens. Tony, we were in Athens. No, you didn’t come to Athens. I didn’t go, no. Where were you? I went home before that. Yeah. I don’t think Italy’s much better off, but five years ago I was in Athens, and it was pretty hot then, but not as hot as it is.

[00:56:30] Cameron: I actually, I remember just after we left, they had bad fires in Athens, like two weeks after we left. And they’ve got, I think there’s 80 fires around Greece at the moment they’re fighting. It’s a bit like an Australian summer. Kind of funny,

[00:56:42] Tony: isn’t it? It’s like the, the nature is, is fighting the virus, right?

[00:56:47] Tony: Because like, how do you solve global warming? One way is to plant trees. No, no, we’ll burn all those down until those pesky humans are expelled from our system.

[00:56:57] Cameron: Yeah, I think we’ve been removing the trees. [00:57:00] at a rapid rate. Anyway, let’s look, the market’s depressing enough, Tony. We don’t need to talk about climate change on top of it.

[00:57:08] Cameron: Let’s get into, before we get into the news of the week, the reason QAV club member Brent Sweeney has joined us today is to talk about his recent experience. Which if you stand up, you’ll be able to show the viewers at home, which is just me and Tony, the Berkshire Hathaway annual shoulder, annual shareholder event, Omaha, Nebraska, USA, t shirt, the official t shirt.

[00:57:34] Cameron: Did you bring one home for Tony and I, Brent?

[00:57:37] Brent: No, this is the only souvenir.

[00:57:39] Tony: Do you want to do the DeBorah and design that? Oh,

[00:57:42] Brent: you know, everything, everything around the stadium this year was, was fun. Themed and this sort of these stripes and these colors. So the shirt

[00:57:50] Cameron: matched everyone matched. So no, we know Warren didn’t cause I, we’ve seen the Berkshire Hathaway website.

[00:57:56] Cameron: It looks like it was built in three. It’s [00:58:00] just a few blinds of black text on a white page and that’s it. No frills. So Brent, when was the AGM? Remind us. Ah, it

[00:58:10] Brent: was May, early May. I think it was the 5th of May, 5th of May just gone. So two, about two months ago, two and a half months ago.

[00:58:16] Cameron: And were you over in the U S for, on business or pleasure or outside of the Berkshire AGM?

[00:58:23] Cameron: No,

[00:58:24] Brent: look, I specifically went over there for the AGM. So I had a,

[00:58:28] Cameron: I think I had two, week and a half over there. Yeah. Just for that. That’s hard. Did you spend the whole week and a half in Omaha, Nebraska, or were you traveling around?

[00:58:35] Brent: No, traveling around. We, we, we started in Vegas. That was our destination. And we drove all the way from Las Vegas.

[00:58:43] Brent: Up through the Rockies out to Omaha and then came back

[00:58:46] Cameron: after the meeting. Who’s the other people? So I took my father. My father and I went together. Fantastic. Is he a big Buffett and Munger fan or was he just? Tagging along with you recently converted him in the last few [00:59:00] years. That’s great. And it’s your first time to a Berkshire AGM, correct?

[00:59:04] Cameron: Yeah. First time. And how did you gain entry? You didn’t buy a 400, 000 share like Tony did to get in. Did you?

[00:59:12] Brent: No, no. So I’ve been a big B shareholder quite some time. So I remember asking this question on the podcast, if you would have been earlier in the year on how, how you do get entry. It was quite, it was quite a, quite an easy experience actually.

[00:59:28] Brent: So as long as you’ve got those B shares, I think you can have one before the event on the Friday, you turn you, your ride, and I guess it’s called the will call area and you just show up and you present. Even on your phone, you put, you show them your trading app, show them your shareholding and proof id, and you’re given four tickets.

[00:59:51] Brent: Four tickets all up for each, for for each

[00:59:54] Cameron: individual person. And why did you want to go to a Berkshire Hathaway? A g m. Oh. Who doesn’t take who? Who

[00:59:59] Brent: [01:00:00] doesn’t camp?

[01:00:00] Cameron: I didn’t until we started doing this podcast. I was mad when he told me he went to it. What the? I thought it was just sad and lonely and something that said lonely old Rich Whiteman did.

[01:00:13] Brent: Well, who are those Muppets? The two old, like,

[01:00:17] Tony: sitting up in the estate? Statler and Waldorf.

[01:00:20] Brent: Yeah, that’s it, yeah. It’s those two guys sitting up in front of the stage. And no, look, I, I, I’ve always wanted to go and I, I, I find I, I guess I had everything lined up this year to be able to go, so I thought I’d go before these guys pass away, and I really wanted see them before, you know, we, we, we don’t have ’em here anymore.

[01:00:40] Brent: So Are

[01:00:41] Cameron: they pass away about seven years

[01:00:43] Tony: ago, ? Well, the way they, the way they behave, I mean, these guys.

[01:00:48] Brent: Spoke for what I think each each session went for three hours nearly six hours and one blokes what 92 and the other blokes 99 is It’s simply amazing that they can have [01:01:00] that stamina,

[01:01:00] Cameron: you know, present all day.

[01:01:02] Cameron: That’s what, sorry, sees candy does, keeps you awake. So the sugar, the C’s in the coke, keeps you up.

[01:01:10] Brent: I remember the start of the meeting, they put on a platter of coke and three lollies for everyone. And

[01:01:18] Cameron: instead of going to a Catholic church and getting the wafer and the, the wine, you get coke and candy.

[01:01:24] Cameron: Yeah. Did it live up to expectations? Was it worth the trip? Oh,

[01:01:28] Tony: for sure. Yeah, for sure.

[01:01:30] Brent: Interesting. I think you get more, I found I got more out of talking cups and, you know, shopping at all the stores and attending the other various events. Surrounding them, that, that, that, that was a real highlight for me.

[01:01:41] Brent: Look, most of the things that Warren and Charlie talk about, I feel anyone can listen to the years and years of, you know, 25 years of history of the AGMs online. So it’s very similar. They,

[01:01:54] Tony: they, they talk very similar, preach the same

[01:01:56] Brent: messages as past years. So, but yeah, I enjoyed, [01:02:00] I’ll be, I’ll be

[01:02:00] Cameron: back

[01:02:00] Brent: again there next year.

[01:02:02] Brent: All things work

[01:02:02] Cameron: out. Wow. That’s so cool. Oh yeah. Any surprises? I’d say the highlight

[01:02:08] Brent: of my event is, that was actually on the Thursday, um, Kelly Partners had a shareholder event for shareholders. And I

[01:02:19] Cameron: went along to that and met Brett Kelly, the CEO of Kelly Partners. And that, that was amazing, terrific guy, a lot

[01:02:27] Tony: of insight.

[01:02:28] Brent: And he, he talks the book, the Outsiders book that we, that Tony’s often referenced, talks that book.

[01:02:36] Tony: So many questions, Brent. Take us through it. You drove from Vegas. Where did you stay in Omaha? The thriving metropolis of Omaha? I actually stayed,

[01:02:45] Brent: I, I booked my accommodation too late. So I actually stayed out at the casino on, on, at Council Bluffs.

[01:02:52] Tony: You won’t, you won’t believe this, but that’s where I stayed when I was there. Yeah. Council Bluffs. Yep. Council Bluffs, look. At the casino. Actually next door to the [01:03:00] casino was the Hilton.

[01:03:01] Brent: My tip for adventurers who are going to go is try and book in early or there’s another

[01:03:07] Cameron: huge chain

[01:03:08] Brent: there, but expect to pay probably 700, 800 US a night, maybe more for that, for that weekend.

[01:03:15] Brent: But if you can stay in the city. You have access to a lot more events right in those hotels.

[01:03:22] Tony: So, yeah, yeah, fantastic. So favorite stand at the exhibition hall before the

[01:03:28] Cameron: Oh, Netschetz,

[01:03:30] Tony: so they, they, they shipped in a, not a whole

[01:03:34] Cameron: plane, but half a plane and you get to walk through

[01:03:36] Brent: it. That that was

[01:03:37] Tony: quite impressive.

[01:03:38] Tony: Wow. And this

[01:03:39] Cameron: is the luxury, this is the luxury private jet for hire. Jet share. For hire thing.

[01:03:45] Tony: Yeah. Jet share. Fractional ownership they call it. Yeah. Which was revolutionary when it came out. Buffett was all over it. Mm hmm. He sold his corporate jet and bought it. Some ownership in NetJets and I started they bought either bought the company or bought most of the [01:04:00] company.

[01:04:00] Tony: Yeah. Yeah So who won the paper toss contest? They didn’t they didn’t do it.

[01:04:06] Brent: Well, not that I seen anyway So what Warren doesn’t do that anymore, and I don’t know I wasn’t maybe I wasn’t there But yeah, I didn’t see that. Sorry.

[01:04:15] Tony: Yeah. Yeah, because we didn’t have a NetJet jet when I was there we had the Demountable Homes.

[01:04:20] Tony: Yes. They just bought that company. Yep. And, uh, that was set up to walk through and then they did the paper toss onto the front porch of the demountable home. Yeah. That

[01:04:29] Brent: was Clayton Homes, so they had Clayton’s, that’s Yeah, they had a full size house, probably about, uh, 150 square meter house plopped in the middle of the entertainment area.

[01:04:38] Brent: Yeah, that you could walk through.

[01:04:40] Cameron: Yeah, it was impressive. I’ve got a I’ve got a Clayton’s home. It’s a townhouse. It’s the house you have when you’re not really having a house. Yeah, true.

[01:04:48] Tony: And what time did you get up to go from Council Bluffs to the stadium in the morning for the meeting? Well,

[01:04:56] Brent: I wanted to get up at 3 o’clock and be there by about 4 o’clock, 3.

[01:04:59] Brent: 30, [01:05:00] 4 o’clock. My dad held me back and we got there at 6 o’clock. Oh, that’s late. Yes, it is late. So at 6 o’clock, there’s probably about four or five entries into the CHI centre. That’s what they call it. And I reckon I would have been about 200 metres. Yeah. 200 meters back from the front door. So very, very organized line up.

[01:05:21] Brent: Yeah. No, no one’s

[01:05:22] Tony: fighting or anything like that, but

[01:05:24] Brent: that was at six o’clock at eight o’clock gates open. And I had a little Wanda behind me and this line probably, I’d have to say it’d be about a kilometer long.

[01:05:34] Cameron: So yeah,

[01:05:36] Brent: I was waiting at six o’clock, but I wouldn’t get a seat. So the stadium holds 16, 000 people.

[01:05:42] Brent: So I was sitting there quite nervous, wondering whether I’d get a seat, seat at 6 a. m. So,

[01:05:48] Tony: yeah. And what kind of entertainment did they have outside to keep people amused at that hour of the morning? Absolutely

[01:05:55] Brent: nothing. Apart from all the, all the NetJets people, union [01:06:00] people walking around protesting. So generally there’s always a few protesters, you know, protesters.

[01:06:04] Brent: Yeah.

[01:06:04] Tony: They did the year I was there as well. Maybe that’s why there wasn’t a NetJet inside the area, that they were they had a. They had a team of long horned bulls drive an old wagon up and down the street outside, cracking whips and things when I was there. Right.

[01:06:20] Brent: Yeah, no, I didn’t see

[01:06:22] Tony: anything. Yeah. And so you’ve got to see it inside.

[01:06:25] Tony: That’s the all important thing, isn’t it? Yeah. Not having to go across the road and watch it on the screen. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. Good, good seats. Yeah, but we, we,

[01:06:34] Brent: we couldn’t get on the floor. There was too much of a lineup to get on the floor,

[01:06:38] Tony: but yeah, we’re about halfway

[01:06:40] Brent: up, halfway back to on the, on Warren’s right hand side.

[01:06:44] Brent: So we, we had a good, we did have a good view.

[01:06:46] Tony: Good. Yeah. Good. And anything else in Omaha? Did you go and see his house or did you go to. Mrs. B’s Furniture Emporium or the Steakhouse he goes to. Yes, I went out to… Jewelry

[01:06:58] Brent: shop portions. I never, never hit [01:07:00] a steakhouse. I hit, I went out to the Furniture Mart, Nebraska Furniture Mart.

[01:07:05] Brent: And that is a sight to behold. I thought Barney, you know, Barney’s Complexes around Australia were quite large. These places are impressive. And, I mean, you can buy anything from that place. So, unbelievable. Unbelievable what, what he’s, what he’s built.

[01:07:21] Tony: And it’s all on one level, it’s like football field after football field.

[01:07:25] Brent: Yeah, it is impressive. I didn’t go to his house. I thought that was a bit, yeah, I thought that was a bit invasive of

[01:07:32] Tony: his privacy. I don’t think he’d be there. He’s probably in the, he’s probably staying in the penthouse at the hill. For

[01:07:38] Brent: sure. But I didn’t go to his house. We went to his office. I tried to get into his office.

[01:07:43] Brent: I met him. a young girl there and I’ll try to persuade her to at least let me in and see the plaque of where Berkshire Hathaway is, you know, on the top level. So, but no, I couldn’t do that. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s locked down. I mean, there’s no security guards there, but. It’s locked down. So [01:08:00] it was actually funny.

[01:08:01] Brent: I thought the building was white, but it was, it was painted black. They recently did a

[01:08:05] Tony: remodel. Wow. That’s a Kiewitz plaza from memory, isn’t

[01:08:10] Brent: it? Yes, Kiewitz plaza. And apparently the Kiewitz family have sold the building. So that’s why they did a remodel. So, so when I got there, I was a bit mad. I had to ask around, so.

[01:08:22] Brent: I did

[01:08:22] Tony: the, the 5k fun run, although I warmed it on a Sunday morning, and that was the sort of turning point was Kiewitz Plaza. We all piled past Kiewitz Plaza. So did you get, did you get anywhere near Warren or Bill or any of those? No, not a chance, not a chance.

[01:08:40] Brent: The closest, I did try and attempt to ask a question, so they have all the question stations, I think about 10 or 11 So when you,

[01:08:51] Cameron: what’s your question going to be?

[01:08:52] Cameron: Have you ever listened to the QAV podcast? Oh, well, I was going

[01:08:55] Brent: to talk to him a little bit about value investing, so, but the, the [01:09:00] lineup for the questions was, was crazy. There would have been about 50 people at each station looking to ask a question and they do a lottery system. So they give you a ticket and they, they, Draw that out and that lucky person, that station gets the opportunity

[01:09:13] Cameron: to ask the

[01:09:14] Brent: questions.

[01:09:15] Tony: And there’s a dozen or so stations around the stadium too.

[01:09:18] Brent: I found it interesting. There was a lot

[01:09:20] Tony: of, a lot of children or young people

[01:09:23] Brent: asked questions during the meeting I found. There was, there was. There was a lot, a lot of young people, you know, 12, 13 year olds there. It was quite

[01:09:30] Tony: interesting. That’s great.

[01:09:32] Tony: And, and how would you describe Omaha, Nebraska to people who haven’t seen it or been there? Oh,

[01:09:37] Brent: I, I was expecting a smaller, a smaller little town similar to like, similar to Townsville, but it’s actually got a million people there. So the actual city center is quite small of, you know, wasn’t expecting much,

[01:09:51] Tony: but yeah, I was expecting, of.

[01:09:53] Tony: Yeah, maybe expecting more.

[01:09:55] Brent: It’s a quiet little town. It’s a quiet

[01:09:58] Tony: little town. And it’s a, it’s a [01:10:00] kind of the center of the farming support services. So you see some of the big, the really big companies that support farming in America on the sides of billboards and trucks and rail stock, Conag and people like that.

[01:10:15] Tony: Yeah, correct. So it’s a big farming center. Now, I hired a car and drove around and the only highlight I could find apart from. Nebraska Furniture Mart was the Air and Space Museum because they used to fly the B 52s out in the Cold War. That was, that was

[01:10:30] Brent: interesting to see. What I was amazed at, and something that Buffett talks about with Never Bet Against America, that opened my eyes up there, and I’ve been to America, it was probably my seventh or eighth time, is we, we drove from Denver over to Omaha, which is sort of a lateral sort of From, from west to east and it’s, I’d say it’s 700

[01:10:50] Cameron: kilometers and it’s

[01:10:52] Brent: contained or just filled with flat farmland

[01:10:56] Cameron: and it’s all irrigated and they’re every square meter of that [01:11:00] land that we drive

[01:11:00] Brent: along was farmland.

[01:11:02] Brent: You know, you had cattle feed lots, they’re growing corn, they’re growing everything. I found that very. Just amazing that the sheer size of,

[01:11:12] Cameron: of the farmland in that area, you know, I think they call that the Great

[01:11:15] Brent: Plains. So the way I picture it is from, for example, from Brisbane to a place called Rocky up the coast, just full of farmland.

[01:11:23] Brent: I thought that was quite amazing. Wow. You understand that, Ken, from Bundy, yeah? From Brisbane all the way to Rocky flood, farmland irrigated.

[01:11:34] Cameron: Yeah. Whereas you drive, if you did that drive, it’s mostly just natural. There is farms. I don’t know. It has it, I guess to say 85, 90% of it is just nothing.

[01:11:46] Brent: So the sheer infrastructure in America, you know, sort of opened my eyes.

[01:11:51] Brent: Seeing that part of America,

[01:11:52] Cameron: the, How, how far, you know, how far advanced they are, probably compared to Australian. And what did your dad think of the whole [01:12:00] thing, Brent? He’s going to kill me

[01:12:01] Brent: this, but I caught him sleeping during the meeting. He’s getting a little bit old, but no, he thoroughly enjoyed the meeting.

[01:12:07] Brent: And I could just, just being present, you know, at the meeting. Amongst everyone else and here in Warren life, so yeah,

[01:12:14] Cameron: he loved it as well. Getting a bit old. I think if Warren and Charlie can stay awake through it, then the rule is no one’s allowed to sleep. That’s

[01:12:22] Tony: right. I can’t believe you only bought a t shirt though.

[01:12:24] Tony: I mean, that exhibition hall was full of great souvenirs. Oh yeah,

[01:12:28] Brent: no, I got a couple of… A couple of Yeti cups, Yeti coffee mugs, and they had some Berkshire emblems on them. So Yeti must have let them put their emblem on it. So I got

[01:12:36] Cameron: a few of

[01:12:37] Brent: those and handed

[01:12:38] Cameron: them around.

[01:12:38] Tony: Okay. I mean, I loaded up. I bought Brooks shoes.

[01:12:43] Tony: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pens from the jewelers.

[01:12:46] Brent: Yeah. Well, actually, I got the kids some Charlie duckies. So, you know, little, little ducks for the bubble heads.

[01:12:53] Tony: Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. They love that. Mmm. C’s candy. Did you try some C’s candy? Yes, I did.

[01:12:59] Brent: [01:13:00] I did. It is nice candy, but, uh, it’s overpriced. It is

[01:13:04] Tony: expensive candy.

[01:13:05] Tony: And what about the bookstore? That was, that was always a real treat for me. It was. Yeah. So I grabbed a couple of books. Went back to that. Grabbed

[01:13:11] Brent: a couple of books there. Most of them have been recommended in the past, but all those books sold out. None, none

[01:13:18] Cameron: left on the shelf by the end of the week.

[01:13:19] Tony: All gone.

[01:13:20] Tony: Wow. Wow. Yeah. That’s, that’s a book for value investors. It’s all sold out. That’s incredible.

[01:13:26] Cameron: Yeah. I wonder how many people that attend the AGM are active value investors versus just Berkshire investors, passive Berkshire

[01:13:38] Tony: holders? I wouldn’t know. My guess would be most would be value investors, not, not Berkshire Hathaway investors.

[01:13:44] Tony: They all have to have a B share to get in, but. Yeah, I mean, it’s very expensive to buy an A share now. I think most of those sort of lifetime Berkshire Hathaway shareholders are going to be as old as Warren and Charlie, probably, or their kids.

[01:13:57] Cameron: When we hold our first QAV [01:14:00] annual general meeting slash conference, Tony, we’ll, you’ll be doing the paper toss.

[01:14:05] Cameron: I’ll be with Brent’s dad, probably having a nap up the back while you do the Q& A. Brent! Tell us a bit about yourself. So tell us a bit about your investing journey. Yeah. So I come across, when I come across QAB

[01:14:19] Brent: probably 2020 after the COVID cough, probably in about September, I

[01:14:24] Cameron: joined up in January. The

[01:14:25] Brent: reason I, I recently read what works on Wall Street book by Jim O’Shaughnessy

[01:14:34] Cameron: about the same time, and

[01:14:36] Brent: it just, for me, it just clicked.

[01:14:38] Brent: I’ve read many books in the past, but Jim’s book clicked and then. I come across you guys and I said, this is exactly what Jim’s been talking about a process systemized with rules and adding together a lot of data.

[01:14:55] Cameron: And ranking, you

[01:14:56] Brent: know, stack ranking a list to buy from. So [01:15:00] I, then I

[01:15:00] Tony: started in 2020, I’ve

[01:15:02] Cameron: been having

[01:15:03] Brent: a crack at run

[01:15:04] Cameron: since.

[01:15:04] Cameron: Yeah. It’s been a rough, rough couple of years since then. How’s your portfolio doing? Like at the moment I posted my portfolio on

[01:15:11] Brent: Facebook the

[01:15:12] Cameron: other day, but look, I have. We had a bad year last, I think we got

[01:15:16] Brent: 8%

[01:15:17] Tony: last, last financial year,

[01:15:18] Brent: but the, the first financial year, I’ll just read them out. First financial year, about 21% and the second one, 35% and then

[01:15:26] Cameron: 8% last financial year.

[01:15:27] Cameron: So

[01:15:28] Brent: I’ve had a good run.

[01:15:29] Cameron: We’ve had a good run. Can you come and run my portfolio for me? Very good. Well done. That’s great. And what about your

[01:15:34] Tony: background, Brent? What, what do you do for a

[01:15:36] Brent: crust?

[01:15:37] Cameron: Why the hell are you living in Townsville? I actually only moved

[01:15:40] Brent: here a few weeks ago. In a previous life though.

[01:15:47] Brent: I used to explain to you what that is, but, but nowadays the last four or five years, I’m actually an operator, machine operator

[01:15:53] Cameron: at a coal mine down in, down in Blackwater. That’s a natural

[01:15:56] Tony: transition. Yeah, occupational therapist and machine operator. Yeah. You get [01:16:00] to, I guess you get to do your stretches after every hour that you stand up and respond.

[01:16:04] Tony: They tell us to do that. I used to Blackwater. I used to look after the Shell service station out there and the fuel distributor in. Emerald. Yep. They have depos and black water. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . So are you in, is it, it’s IDE there I think from Emory, isn’t it? The underground coal? Um,

[01:16:18] Cameron: no, the

[01:16:19] Brent: ides a bit more south.

[01:16:20] Brent: So around black water, there’s about five, five coal mines. Big, big coal mines. You’ve got

[01:16:26] Cameron: black water to the south, which B m A owns or, or B

[01:16:30] Brent: H P owned. And to the north you’ve got Carra. Which are, Coronado are, so

[01:16:35] Cameron: both openlands open, big

[01:16:37] Tony: mines. Okay. Yeah, right. And I’ve read today that BHP is selling their coal mines too.

[01:16:43] Tony: Yeah, so they’ve got, you know, just from what we hear

[01:16:45] Brent: through what BHP

[01:16:48] Cameron: announced, they’ve got a mine up for sale in Dornier, which is more up, near

[01:16:51] Tony: Moremurr. Yeah, right. You’re not affected by that, are you?

[01:16:54] Brent: No, no. I work there for a large contractor, so we, yeah, look, [01:17:00] we possibly could be, but… Yeah, if the mine keeps going, the mine will keep going.

[01:17:05] Brent: You know, they need operators there to move the stuff.

[01:17:07] Tony: The last time this happened, anybody who buys a coal mine off a large company like BHP or Rio just makes out like bandits because they get them for a song.

[01:17:17] Brent: They generally get a bargain, generally speaking. And that was Stanmore Coal recently bought.

[01:17:25] Brent: Poytrell

[01:17:26] Cameron: Mine and

[01:17:27] Brent: South Hawker Creek and they’ve done extremely well. I think they’ve had them for about 18 months now, so. Right, yeah. So Stanmore was on their buy list

[01:17:36] Cameron: a

[01:17:36] Tony: little while ago. Yes, yeah, well and Whitehaven and the rest. I think Whitehaven’s in the running to buy one of these coal mines, so good luck to them.

[01:17:43] Tony: Yeah, correct. Excellent.

[01:17:46] Cameron: Thanks for coming on and telling us your story, Brent. I’m jealous. And obviously my Yeti Berkshire branded coffee mug is still in the mail. I’ll, I’ll keep an eye [01:18:00] out for that.

[01:18:01] Brent: Waiting for next year, Cam, or we can, we can get one together.

[01:18:07] Cameron: I’d love to actually, that sounds like fun. Yeah, it is. Thanks, mate. Thanks for coming on. Cheers, Ken. Thanks for having me. All right. Well, that is the investing part of the show done. After hours, Tony, golf, golf, and more golf and football. I played golf

[01:18:25] Tony: last week. Yeah, it was, it was good being at Cape Shanken, playing those courses again.

[01:18:29] Tony: That was great fun. They’re great. Such, such good courses. It was a real treat. And I actually loved being back in winter. I hadn’t. Been down at Cape Shanken winter for a very long time, and my memory of it was being, it’s very Scottish, so like the rain coming in sideways and 50k an hour winds, but I had nice weather last week, so it was lovely.

[01:18:46] Tony: And being winter, there was hardly anyone around, so it was a really nice. enjoyable environment to play golf. Thank you. Climate change. Yes. Thank you. Climate change. The hottest year. We were, well, are we now we’re out of climate change into boiling [01:19:00] change or something? Global boiling. Global boiling. Yeah.

[01:19:04] Tony: Well, bring it on for Cape Shang. That’s fantastic. I love it. And. When Alex was born, we signed up an application form to become, for her to become an MCC member, the Melbourne Cricket Club, and the person who nominated her said, I can do two, do you And I said, sure. And it’s the thing in Melbourne, the, the, You get told to do when your kids first born because by the time they get to Alex’s age, the membership comes through.

[01:19:29] Tony: So I’ve got my provisional membership in the MCC. So I was able to go along to a couple of games of footy for the first time as a member on the weekend at the MCG. What do you mean? It’s good because the first one was Carlton Collingwood, and that was 87, 000 people. And the second one was the British Low Cup Rugby, which I went to with a few friends.

[01:19:48] Tony: There was 80 or 82, 000, I think at that. So it’s great to get out and be a part of a gladiatorial coliseum holding nearly a hundred thousand people. It’s a real spectacle.

[01:19:59] Cameron: So [01:20:00] what, what advantages do you get being a member? Oh,

[01:20:02] Tony: well, you’re paying annual fee and then you go just tap your card and go in. And you’re in the members section, which is a bit more upmarket.

[01:20:09] Tony: So there’s good bars and better food. You know, you get a chili on your hot dog, that kind of thing. So, but yeah, you know, the seats, seats are good.

[01:20:19] Cameron: Yeah. That’s good. Well, that was worth the 25 year wait to get a chili on you.

[01:20:22] Tony: Yeah. Correct. And I’m sure if I was living in Melbourne, I’d get my money’s worth out of it, but living in Sydney, I’m not going to.

[01:20:28] Tony: What about

[01:20:28] Cameron: Alex? Is she getting her, has she got hers? She’s got her

[01:20:32] Tony: membership and I asked her on Friday night to the footy, but she was going to see the Barbie movie. So she didn’t come with me. I’ve got a priority straight. Yeah, so I think she may have, because I think Sean just got his membership too, so I think they’ve been to see a football match with maybe his family at some stage.

[01:20:51] Tony: Yeah, but you know, it’s, it’s also there for concerts and other things too, which I’m

[01:20:55] Cameron: sure she’ll use it for. Oh, okay. Right. What

[01:20:57] Tony: else? That’s pretty much it. I’m in Wagga Wagga [01:21:00] now, working my way back to Sydney by Friday. A couple of games of golf Wednesday, Thursday now, and we’ll travel on Friday back to Sydney.

[01:21:07] Tony: Haven’t watched anything good. So again, I went to the Carlton Collingwood game Friday night, which was good. Went to the Bledisloe Cup, which was a whitewash. And of course we got beaten by the All Blacks again, as we always do. So that was that. And. I watched them at Hilda’s Soccer last night with Ruddy, which was good fun.

[01:21:25] Tony: So that was an unexpected 4 0 win against Canada, which kept us alive in the World Cup. And that was, it’s been great fun to watch to see women’s sport doing so well and being so well

[01:21:33] Cameron: supported. Was that, was that being played up here in

[01:21:36] Tony: Brisbane? That was last week. Last night’s game was down in Melbourne.

[01:21:39] Tony: As FIFA called the rectangular stadium at Amy Park, I don’t use the brand name. And, and that was, I mean, that’s, that’s my story about it too. I thought, Oh, I can, I can stay an extra night in Melbourne and go to the Matilda’s if there’s a ticket, I’ll see if Alex wants to go. Logged on and they said almost sold out.

[01:21:57] Tony: So I had to go through about a 20 minute process of [01:22:00] registering with FIFA to set up an account to get the two factor authentication set. All this stuff, finally get it all, log on and it’s, it’s the only seats left. And they’re not even the, the seats for people with disabilities. They’re seats for people who are with people with disabilities.

[01:22:15] Tony: So they’re carers. So you can’t sort of buy one and go in and say, Oh, you left my wheelchair at home. Can I stay here? Cause you can’t, they’re already taken. You’d rather, it’s gotta be a carer who came with you. So yeah, there was a complete marketing debacle. Waste of time.

[01:22:32] Cameron: Sounds like a setup for a curb in terms of what else we, sorry.

[01:22:36] Cameron: Oh, it sounds like a setup for a Curb Your Enthusiasm episode. Yeah. . Larry would find somebody in a wheelchair to take as his plus

[01:22:42] Tony: one. Can I be your carer? Yeah. Yeah. I did think about that. And, and Jenny’s father’s in a wheelchair, but all the wheelchair seats were sold, so I couldn’t buy him a ticket.

[01:22:50] Tony: Mm-hmm. And go with him. So it didn’t work. Alex and I did rewatch the second half of the David Lynch June film on Sunday night flicking

[01:22:58] Cameron: channels, and it came the second half. [01:23:00]

[01:23:00] Tony: Yeah, so we’re just fucking channels and it came on, but it was exactly the spot where the Danny Villeneuve June part one finished.

[01:23:09] Cameron: So I sort of

[01:23:11] Tony: watched part two from David Lynch prior to the part two from Danny Villeneuve coming out. And what a great film. I mean, Lynch is, it’s just a masterpiece. It’s a flawed masterpiece, but it’s brilliant.

[01:23:24] Cameron: Well, he, he can, he still designs it to this day. Yeah,

[01:23:29] Tony: I know, but I mean, it had all the key scenes I remember from the books and from watching the movies before, I guess, but they’re all there and, and yeah, there’s, it moves quite quickly between the scenes because it’s packing in, you know, a large novel, if not novels into a movie.

[01:23:44] Tony: But yeah, it was good. The acting was, was great. Sting was fantastic, and I think Charles Dirty played the Baron, it was good. And it just had that sort of European sensibility, it wasn’t all, you know, a casting call went out to Malibu and they all came in with, you know, big jaws and stuff. It was [01:24:00] Patrick Stewart and Kyle MacLachlan, and it was good, I

[01:24:03] Cameron: really enjoyed it.

[01:24:04] Cameron: I’ve always loved that version of the film, you know, I know David sort of hates it and I saw him talking just recently about how that was a turning point for him to realize he needed Final Cut. He would never make a film again without Final Cut. Dino De Laurentiis sort of screwed him on Final Cut with that and he was like, well, that’s it.

[01:24:22] Cameron: I’m never. And then he did make another film with Dino De Laurentiis later on. He’s like, that’s it. I’m never making a film again without Final Cut. Be a lesson to young filmmakers out there. Always insist on final cut. Your life’s not worth like four years of your life. And then you don’t get the final control over the product.

[01:24:38] Cameron: It’s not worth it. But I think he got pretty, he was pretty bitter about that for a while.

[01:24:44] Tony: Yeah. No, fair enough. But I thought the end result was pretty good. Yeah. I was contrasting it to, I don’t know if you’ve seen the foundation series on Apple TV. I

[01:24:54] Cameron: haven’t yet done.

[01:24:56] Tony: Cause again, like June was a big part of my childhood and so was the foundation [01:25:00] trilogy from Asimov.

[01:25:01] Tony: And it’s the reverse. It’s kind of like all the key points are just stretched and stretched and stretched to make an episode out of. And it’s a bit like those, I’m being a bit harsh, but it’s a bit like the original Star Trek where they run from side to side, you know, look, look like they’re doing all the things and nothing’s really going on.

[01:25:17] Tony: So there’s a lot of high tech flashery and people fighting and running around doing nothing in between the, the plot points and this. Adaption of foundation, which I’m frustrated by compared to David Lynch’s June, which is just, yeah, key point, key point, key point, key point, condensing of, you know, a large book, a thousand page book into 90 minutes.

[01:25:39] Tony: I think it’s great and it brought

[01:25:42] Cameron: his creative relationship with Colin McLaughlin together, which yes. How much joy that’s brought me over the deck.

[01:25:51] Tony: And McLaughlin must have been really young when he made Dune, like he looks like a boy

[01:25:54] Cameron: in it. Yeah, I think he was really young. Yeah. So good casting. Well, speaking of old [01:26:00] movies, we sat down with Fox on the weekend to watch The Wizard of Oz, which he hadn’t seen and I hadn’t seen since I was a kid.

[01:26:07] Cameron: Have you watched it? In recent

[01:26:09] Tony: years. Oh, I would have seen it, you know, when Alex was younger and how did Fox go with the flying monkeys? Cause they were quite terrifying for Alex.

[01:26:18] Cameron: Terrifying for me when I was a kid too, didn’t bat an eyelid. He’s like, Oh, they’re cute. Can I get one? I loved it. Chrissy and I both loved it.

[01:26:27] Cameron: It just held up really well. I was like 1939, it holds up really well. Like the performances, particularly like the scarecrow and the lion. They’re just tremendous performances and the Wicked Witch and the West, all of them. They’re just, okay, the, the, the, the munchkins probably, you know, wouldn’t fly today.

[01:26:53] Cameron: The little people think of these weird high pitched voices, ding dong, the Wicked Witch is there, but the rest of it are really, [01:27:00] really great. Then I read some of the backstory on the, the making of it, which I was surprised by, you know, it was a commercially, it was a flop when it first came out in 39. It lost money.

[01:27:11] Cameron: didn’t, didn’t make a profit for the studio until they re released it, I think in 49. And then it hit the, went on TV in 56 and slowly started to become profitable for them. But it was a 20 year payback on the film, a lot of problems with people getting hurt on set. The original Tin Man, they put aluminium powder on his face and he had an allergic reaction to it.

[01:27:36] Cameron: He ended up in hospital. They needed to recast and reshoot all of his scenes. The Wicked Witch of the West, they were putting, they put copper paint on her. face and hands to make her green and then at one point when she disappeared from Munchkinland with this big burst of flame in a trap door that went down, her costume caught fire and all of the copper paint caught on fire.

[01:27:59] Cameron: She got third [01:28:00] degree burns. took three months of recovery before she could come back to set. Judy Garland got sexually harassed by munchkins constantly on the set. And at one point they

[01:28:13] Tony: should have, they should have filmed that. That would have been funny. And

[01:28:16] Cameron: to keep her skinny, they were feeding her with uppers and then downers to bring it down.

[01:28:22] Cameron: And at one point during the Cowardly lion scenes. She couldn’t stop laughing. The director, I think it was George Cukor at that stage, went up and had to slap her around to get her to stop laughing. It sounds like it was a pretty, pretty brutal shoot. But anyway, the end product really surprisingly holds up really well.

[01:28:42] Cameron: 90 years later, it’s quite astounding. 85 years later. Well,

[01:28:46] Tony: two things that I’d like to say about that. The author of the book was a guy called Al Frank Born. And that was the name of a racehorse that we had once, years ago. So that’s, that’s a slight connection to it. But I remember [01:29:00] reading that the Wizard of Oz was around the time Star Wars came out.

[01:29:04] Tony: The Wizard of Oz and Star Wars were two examples of the Joseph Campbell, hero of many, what was it, hero of many faces mythology.

[01:29:14] Cameron: Hero of a thousand faces. If you lay

[01:29:15] Tony: out Star Wars against the, against the Wizard of Oz, it’s very similar. Yeah. In terms of structure anyway.

[01:29:22] Cameron: Yep. The person gets taken against their will on a journey, doesn’t want the mission, finally gets to accept the mission.

[01:29:34] Cameron: And comes back a better, stronger person having learned something along the way. I read too that the, I mean the book is a lot darker than, I’ve never read the book, but apparently it’s a lot darker than the film. They sort of Disney fied it, even though it wasn’t a Disney production. What else did I read?

[01:29:50] Cameron: Oh yeah, the, the songs for the film, they, they cut, the original cut of the film was over two hours long. They cut 20 odd minutes out of it. [01:30:00] But one of the things they were going to cut after the original screenings of it, the test screenings was somewhere over the rainbow, they decided that. Stretched out the Kansas scenes too long and they wanted to cut it.

[01:30:12] Cameron: The studio wanted to cut it. Some of the producers fought tooth and nail to keep it in. Of course, it won the Oscar for best original song that year and became the defining song of Judy Garland’s career and is considered, you know, one of the greatest songs of all time. So. Yeah, a lot of interesting backstories to it.

[01:30:32] Cameron: But yeah, anyway, there you go. Interesting. I saw that I’m still reading Ovid’s Metamorphosis. Cory Doctorow has got a new book out, which I just started reading as well. It’s all about cryptocurrency. Novel, his latest novel. I love a good Corey novel. And I’ve been listening to a lot of Tony Bennett and Sinead O’Connor over the last week in honor of their respective passings, never really got into Tony Bennett that [01:31:00] much.

[01:31:00] Cameron: Like he has a great voice, but there was just something about Tony, he’s just a little bit vanilla for me. I always found Tony Bennett. Would it be a Tony Bennett fan?

[01:31:07] Tony: A little bit. Yeah. I guess we all went through a bit of a Frank Sinatra phase at one stage and the Rat Pack was our heroes and he was on the edge of that.

[01:31:17] Tony: Yeah, so we did and then we found out that the singer in The Godfather was based on Tony Bennett, the one who gets the protection from The Godfather. So we heard that. What? So, yeah, we sort of looked into Tony Bennett after that. Yeah. He was based

[01:31:32] Cameron: on, he was based on Sinatra. No, no, it’s on Tony Bennett. No.

[01:31:36] Cameron: Pretty sure. Mmm. Al Martino’s character. Yeah. Yeah. That’s it. No. It’s based on Sinatra. Because Sinatra got the film, his career was in the dumps, and he got the film that was shot, some of it, here. Oh, I’ve got kids trying to call me. It’s supposed to be Do Not Disturb, how the hell’s he getting through? What was that, the, the, the scene, the, the Sinatra film where he’s [01:32:00]rolling around on the beach, on the beaches?

[01:32:02] Cameron: Yeah, from here to eternity. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The whole thing where he’s got the, he gets the film from Mr. Waltz, I thought was based on Sinatra’s From Here to Eternity. Anyway.

[01:32:12] Tony: Okay. Well, I, I, for some reason I thought it was Tony Bennett. Never heard that story.

[01:32:16] Cameron: Yeah, I always preferred Dean. I always preferred Frank.

[01:32:20] Cameron: Mel, Mel Torme even, I love Mel Torme. But anyway, I’ve been listening to a lot of Tony Bennett. He had a good innings, a good second act of his life. He did very well.

[01:32:31] Tony: Yeah. And kept, and kept playing right up until the end too. He was not sure how old he was when he died, but he was

[01:32:37] Cameron: speaking of people who.

[01:32:38] Cameron: We’re still singing. McCartney’s coming to Australia. No way I can afford 500 a ticket to go see McCartney. But how amazing is that? Like he’s 81 coming back. He’s still playing the same Hofner bass he played in the Beatles. He said the acoustic guitar he plays yesterday on is the one he used on the Ed Sullivan show.

[01:32:59] Cameron: He’s [01:33:00] still got the same instruments. It’s really, that’s an astounding life. McCartney’s had just the most astounding life. Isn’t it

[01:33:07] Tony: incredible? And they had the. You know, the tour kicks off in Adelaide, which is where the Beatles kicked off their Australian tour. Yeah. We saw McCartney when I was in Toronto.

[01:33:16] Tony: It’s a fantastic show. It really is

[01:33:19] Cameron: special. I bet. Just

[01:33:21] Tony: seeing an ex Beatle on stage is really special as well, but it’s a great show. Because it, it started off with the, well, back then it was his most recent album, which was Now, I think it was called. And so he played a couple of those songs. And then, you know, it just goes through some of the Beatles, goes through Wings, just keeps, keeps on coming and it’s like, it’s like, you know, four concerts rolled up into one because it goes for a long time.

[01:33:50] Tony: And then like at one stage he comes out and plays Blackbird just by himself and then another stage they’ve got a piano painted like Yellow Submarine he comes out and performs, you know, more [01:34:00] sort of trippy songs and it’s just brilliant. really, really good. Oh, and it finished with the bagpipers coming on stage from Molokintai.

[01:34:07] Tony: Like they get, they rang up the local Scottish marching band and got them to turn up. It was, and that was very, very

[01:34:13] Cameron: powerful. What must it be like to be McCartney? Like you were part of the songwriting during the Beatles. You know, the songs that you wrote in your twenties, I considered some of the greatest songs ever written.

[01:34:25] Cameron: Then he had a bunch of hits in the seventies with wings as an artist. He should be getting better over time, but can you name a single track off any album McCartney’s done since 1985? Well,

[01:34:37] Tony: back when we were young, I think it’s called, was the one on now, which we used to listen to. That wasn’t too bad.

[01:34:43] Tony: Well, back when we were, back when we were young, back when we were famous, I think it was called. Yeah, it wasn’t a bad album, but yeah, it’s not, nothing like. Well, I mean, and the Beatles, I mean, it was just a shock value too. I mean, you know, I’ve had friends who said music would change overnight the first time I heard.

[01:34:59] Tony: [01:35:00] Please please me, or, you know, I want to hold your hand. So, you know, the shock value of that and then their leadership in, in the sort of hippie movement and psychedelic movement, you know, just were really out there in the vanguard. And then when they broke up, they kind of drifted back into. Not mediocrity, but back into the, you know, back in line, I guess, with all the other musicians around and they handed off that kind of torture, the new stuff.

[01:35:26] Tony: But as an

[01:35:26] Cameron: artist, like, I mean, I can’t, I mean, I listen to every album he puts out and I enjoy them, but yeah. Say, say, say duet with Michael Jackson or Ebony and Ivory in the eighties with Stevie Wonder. They’re probably the last songs I’d be able to, the most recent songs I’d be able to name of McCartney.

[01:35:49] Cameron: Yeah, right. And not the best. Well, no, not those, but you know, like he had this, this like hit after hit after hit after hit live and let die also from the early eighties, I think like hit after hit after hit [01:36:00] for decades. And then he’s gone on and lived and continued to write songs and put out albums. You know, there’s no one number one hits coming out from does that mean the industry has changed?

[01:36:10] Cameron: There’s more, you know, the market is fragmented. His creative powers aren’t what they once were. I don’t know. I wonder how he pro that’s like, if I could sit down with McCartney, part of it would be how the hell do you live? Being as famous as you’ve been since you were 20 years old. Like, how do you do that?

[01:36:28] Cameron: And, and keep your sanity and be, how does it feel to still be putting out music and no one gives a shit? Like you, the songs that you did in those first few decades, like consider,

[01:36:41] Tony: that’s a

[01:36:44] Cameron: serious question. Like, how do you, how do you process that from the people still just want to hear the stuff that you did when you were 20, 30.

[01:36:53] Cameron: Yeah, I mean, I don’t know how he, you know, how do you, maybe just, he seems like a fairly accepting guy. He’s [01:37:00] like, Oh, it’s just the way it is. You know, I just do the stuff from, well, I think

[01:37:03] Tony: also too, out of all the Beatles, he’s a bit like Mick Jagger. They’re very commercially minded. So he’d just be going, yeah, okay.

[01:37:08] Tony: I’ve got to, got to put up with playing my old songs for three hours a night for a couple of months. And I make, you know, 10 million or whatever it’s going to be. So yeah, I can, I can suck that. And

[01:37:17] Cameron: that’s the third question. Why does he keep doing it? Like he doesn’t need the money. I’m quite sure. Why is he still touring is not easy on the body flying from city to city to city to city getting up doing three hours of hard yakker every night.

[01:37:34] Cameron: He looks like he’s in good shape, but what drives him to keep? Is it just the love of the people? Is it? He doesn’t like his wife and he wants to get out of the house. I mean, what is it that keeps him touring? It’s what I want to know. Well, doesn’t he have a new wife now? Of course he does. He’s Paul McCartney.

[01:37:49] Cameron: He’s got a new wife. He’s

[01:37:50] Tony: a publicist or he’s ex publicist. Yeah. Yeah, it’s a good question. And you could ask Bob Dylan, who still plays last nights of the year. You know, it’s just, it’s just, it’s their [01:38:00]being, I guess. Oh,

[01:38:00] Cameron: that’s who else I’ve been listening. I’ve been listening to a lot of Willie Nelson this week.

[01:38:05] Cameron: Oh, really? Okay. I don’t know, man. I just was like, I don’t really, I told you my Willie Nelson story when Chrissy and I saw him in Vegas, probably have at some point. So we got married in Vegas, as you know, years ago. Yeah. I think the night before we got married, we were, we were, we were, went to this little bar somewhere in Caesar’s palace or something.

[01:38:27] Cameron: It was a, there was a rodeo, not a rodeo. An electric bull thing. We went in to see the electric bull. And there was like five people in this bar, and there was a little stage, and there was a Willie Nelson impersonator on stage doing his Willie songs. And we went there to see this, uh, electric bull. Next thing we know, Willie, the real Willie Nelson walks in with two.

[01:38:48] Cameron: hugely endowed blondes, one on each arm, gets up on stage, gives the impersonator a hug, and then does an act with the impersonator. He does a duet. He [01:39:00] does five or six songs, dueting with the impersonator. And there’s like eight of us standing in this bar, no audience. And then they hug. It looks like they knew each other.

[01:39:09] Cameron: And then Willie leaves, just walks off the stage and goes on his way. I was like, man, that was, that was cool. But I’ve been going back and listening to some of his stuff from the early seventies, like the, what do they call it? The outlaw country days when he and Chris Christopherson and Johnny Cash sort of broke away from the Nashville scene.

[01:39:28] Cameron: Waylon James did their own thing. It’s, it’s, you know, it’s sort of bluesy, country, little bit of jazz, little bit of rock, a little bit of rockabilly. It’s really, you know, quite interesting stuff. I hate country generally, but I always say that I hate country music unless you’re talking about… Willie Nelson, Johnny Cash, Dolly Parton, Paul Lovett, Kenny Rogers or John Denver.

[01:39:51] Cameron: They’re like, I set them apart from country music, right? They’re sort of…

[01:39:56] Tony: That’s not fair though, really, is it? It’s like saying I hate rock and roll except for [01:40:00] Mick Jagger, Paul McCartney, Bruce Springsteen, Elton

[01:40:03] Cameron: John. Kind of the joke, Tony. Yeah. I don’t like country except for the greatest country stars.

[01:40:10] Cameron: The country’s here. Sorry,

[01:40:11] Tony: I’m in the country.

[01:40:12] Cameron: And yes, Sinead O’Connor, going back and listening to her stuff. I always loved her and big fan of her taking a position on the Catholic church when she did. Have you seen the footage of her Madison Square Garden concert a week later, speaking of Kris Kristofferson?

[01:40:25] Cameron: I saw a clip of it,

[01:40:26] Tony: yeah, when she was booed off the stage, or not off the stage, but booed.

[01:40:30] Cameron: He introduced her and then as she was being booed. He walked up to her and Landon, you can hear in the microphone, he said, don’t let the bastards get you down. And she said, I’m not down. And then she screamed an a cappella version of war and then just walked off the stage and apparently fell into his arms and burst into tears.

[01:40:49] Cameron: I guess, you know, anyway, there you go. Wasn’t she way ahead of her time in calling out the Catholic church in public. Yes. Yep.

[01:40:59] Tony: Sure [01:41:00] was. Yeah, way ahead of the time. Really way ahead of the time for that. Yeah. That’s, that’s,

[01:41:06] Cameron: that’s all I got, Tam. Say hi to Ruddy for me and I’ll talk to you next week. I will.

[01:41:12] Cameron: OK, Matt. Have a good week. If you like the QAV podcast, help us out and help your friends out. Help Australia out by telling somebody about it. You can shoot somebody an email with a link to our latest newsletter. Say, hey, you should check this thing out. I think you’d really like it. Oh. Write us a review on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify.

[01:41:33] Cameron: It only takes 30 seconds. You can find the links in our newsletter or our blog posts every week and follow the instructions for how to do that. Or write a review or make a post on Facebook or Twitter or X, whatever it’s called now, on Threads. On, I don’t know, whatever it is, whatever the social media channel of your preference is.

[01:41:54] Cameron: Just help spread the word, you’ll do us a favour and you’ll help your friends and help Australia [01:42:00] learn how to take control of their investing as well. The QAV podcast is a production of Space Craft Publishing Pty Ltd. Authorised representative of AFSL 520442. AFS representative number 001292718. Please don’t make any investment decisions based solely on listening to this podcast.

[01:42:22] Cameron: This is presenters as general advice only not personal financial advice. We don’t know your personal financial circumstances. Please see a financial planner before making any investing decisions.

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