QAV AU 836 — Making Audits Sexy Again

QAV AU 836 AUDIO

Cameron: [00:00:00] Wel­come back to the QAV Aus­tralia, episode 8 3 6. We’re record­ing this on Tues­day the 9th of Sep­tem­ber, 2025. Tony Ton. What do you know, tk?

Tony Kynas­ton: What do I know? I know we have a big show ready to go for peo­ple.

Cameron: I think so.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: Well, I think there’s only one ques­tion, but there’s, I dun­no, two some com­ments. Um,

Tony Kynas­ton: was your Father’s Day?

Cameron: oh, I beat Tay­lor at a game of chess, so that was good. Of course he said, oh, I was­n’t pay­ing atten­tion, but, uh, you know, it’s, I’ll take it. What about you?

Tony Kynas­ton: yeah. Pret­ty qui­et. Yeah, just had a nice day down here. A few gifts, which was love­ly.

Cameron: Love­ly. I got a plant, which you can maybe see it’s blur­ry, but I, Chris­sy gave me a pot plant for my office, which is nice.

Tony Kynas­ton: All good.

Cameron: Well, the, my big, the big win for me [00:01:00] over the week­end though, Tony, was, I cod­ed suc­cess­ful­ly, final­ly the audit check­er. And as an extra, extra bonus, I threw in a buy­back check­er just for you,

Tony Kynas­ton: well done. Thank you.

Cameron: my fourth attempt, I think, or fifth attempt over the course of a year to get the auto­mat­ed audit check­er work­ing.

And I stum­bled across the way to do it late, like I thunk Fri­day night or some­thing like that. And I was like, oh, what? And then spent the week­end in my spare time when I was­n’t at kung fu cod­ing it. And uh, by Sun­day night it was work­ing. And it was, uh, a good feel­ing. A good feel­ing.

Tony Kynas­ton: So

Cameron: So

Tony Kynas­ton: How do you find the annu­al report state­ment?

Cameron: I. So I was hav­ing a crack at some­thing and um, I was in duck, duck go, you know, duck, duck go.

It’s a alter­nate search engine to [00:02:00] Google and I was search­ing for a report for some­thing. I can’t remem­ber what I was doing. And I found this ASX Announce­ments web­site, URL struc­ture on the ASX that I’d nev­er seen before. Um, that has a list of all of the announce­ments and the URL just fin­ish­es with the tick­et code.

It’s like this long URL, and it has the fin­ish­es with the tick­et code of the stock. So you just replace the

Tony Kynas­ton: Alright.

Cameron: at the end and you get the URL of all of their announce­ments like you would in a Stock Doc­tor announce­ments page, but it’s on the ASX. So yeah, I just, I, I wrote a script that could just pull up each stocks page scrolled, I had to do some muck­ing around to fig­ure out there, there’s no stan­dard ter­mi­nol­o­gy for what annu­al reports and half year­ly reports are called.

Every­one calls ’em some­thing slight­ly [00:03:00] dif­fer­ent. Not every­one, but there’s a. There’s an Appen­dix four E, but there’s like full year statu­to­ry accounts. Uh, annu­al FY 25 annu­al report. Um, the 2025 annu­al report. There’s a, there’s a num­ber of vari­a­tions. So, um, I put togeth­er a script that con­tains all of those sort of vari­a­tions.

It goes look­ing for one of those and also the half year­ly reports that there’s no annu­al report. And so then it down­loads those. So then I end­ed up with a down­load fold­er, um, of all of the annu­al and half year reports from the last year for all of the com­pa­nies that were in the Stock Doc­tor down­load.

That’s what I focused on. I gave my script a big list of 650 tick­et codes and said, down­load the most recent annu­al or finance or half year reports for all of these com­pa­nies. Then once they had that, that was the first step. The sec­ond step was to write a script that [00:04:00] could. Scroll through, crawl through all of those reports, look for ter­mi­nol­o­gy for that.

All the stuff that we did with, uh, Jamie a few years ago, all the dif­fer­ent ter­mi­nol­o­gy. And basi­cal­ly if it finds any of that ter­mi­nol­o­gy, it flags it. And if it does­n’t find any of that ter­mi­nol­o­gy, it gives it a clean bill of health unmod­i­fied. Um, it also tells us whether it’s an audit or a review.

’cause some­times it’s not a full audit, but if it’s a review and they don’t flag it, it’s still usu­al­ly okay and it just throws it into a spread­sheet, which then I can use my check­list to go and, you know, just check any­thing that we don’t have. So I’ve updat­ed every­thing, so I only need to run it prob­a­bly most­ly twice a year after report­ing sea­son.

But for some of those that report out­side of report­ing sea­son, banks and retail­ers and what­ev­er, I can run ’em a lit­tle bit lat­er on, but takes a cou­ple hours to [00:05:00] run. Down­loads every­thing. Crawls it, clas­si­fies it, sticks it in a spread­sheet. Bob’s your uncle. And then I noticed when I was look­ing at this announce­ments page, it also has buy­back announce­ments on there.

So I wrote anoth­er ver­sion of the script that says, flag all of the ones that have a buy­back, and give me the date of the lat­est of the most recent buy­back announce­ments. So if you look in the buy list that I pub­lished, uh, yes­ter­day, if you look at the mem­ber ver­sion, go to the hid­den tabs, you’ll see a hid­den tab that says buy­backs, and it has all of the stocks with buy­backs.

So if you want us to start adding that into the check­list, um, I can change my check­list, scor­ing code just to give a score for a buy­back and start adding that into the check­list. It should be rel­a­tive­ly triv­ial from now on.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah, right. I think we should.

Cameron: What kind of a score are we gonna give buy­backs?

Tony Kynas­ton: isn’t it? It’s got­ta be at least one. Um, [00:06:00] yeah, I mean, uh, yeah, I think we’ll start with one. I might do some more research and mean, I’ve been think­ing about that very ques­tion as well, and it’s, it’s almost alike. I need to do a bit of work to say, stocks on the buy list from say, six months ago or 12 months ago. Here’s where they scored. Let’s look at their per­for­mance. Was it always a hun­dred per­cent suc­cess rate if, you know it became a three point trend line upturn or if it what­ev­er, from when we scored it. And then, uh, it’s like a prob­a­bil­i­ty range, but that’s a fair bit of work. So, um, I think we just give buy­backs one at this stage.

Cameron: Okay. Well I’ll start cod­ing that up, um, when I get a chance and, um, I’ll let you know when it’s in place, but yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: I’ll my by two.

Cameron: Yeah,

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: so, so there you go. I’ll run that every week any­way. And um, I’ll have an updat­ed list of buy­backs. But [00:07:00] it was like, I tell you, man, there’s a, it’s a good feel­ing when you’ve been try­ing to nut out a prob­lem like this.

And the clos­est I can come to is if you’ve, when you’ve been eat­ing lamb shanks and you get a lit­tle bit of lamb stuck in your teeth and you, you’re kin­da work­ing it out and, you know, it takes kind of an hour. Some­times you kind of, you don’t wan­na get a tooth­pick ’cause that would mean get­ting off the lounge.

So you just sit there and you, you, you use your tongue and even­tu­al­ly you get it out. That feel­ing of deep sat­is­fac­tion, it’s a bit like that.

I know, ’cause I made lamb shanks on the week­end too.

Tony Kynas­ton: okay. Yeah. Good.

Cameron: So that was excit­ing.

Tony Kynas­ton: No. Well done.

Cameron: Thank you. Good­heart’s Law. Tony, I read about, I stum­bled across this over the week­end too, Good­heart’s Law. I thought, this sounds famil­iar. I’ve nev­er heard you refer to it as Good­heart’s Law, but you’ve basi­cal­ly, I thought it was ton’s law.

Good­heart’s Law is an adage that has been stat­ed as, when a mea­sure becomes a tar­get, it ceas­es to be a good mea­sure named after British econ­o­mist Charles [00:08:00] Good­heart, who is cred­it­ed with express­ing the core idea of the adage. In a 1975 arti­cle on mon­e­tary pol­i­cy in the Unit­ed King­dom, any observed sta­tis­ti­cal reg­u­lar­i­ty will tend to col­lapse once pres­sure is placed upon it for con­trol pur­pos­es.

It was used to crit­i­cize the British Thatch­er gov­ern­ment for try­ing to con­duct mon­e­tary pol­i­cy on the basis of tar­gets for broad and nar­row mon­ey. But the law reflects a much more gen­er­al phe­nom­e­non. Uh, as I’ve heard you talk about ROE and pe.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yes. That was the very first thing that jumped into my mind when you sent through that link. Very much so. Yeah. Peo­ple are gonna gain the tar­get.

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: As Char­lie Munger said, show me the incen­tive and I’ll show you the out­come.

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: I think the dif­fi­cul­ty is that, uh, uh, Peter Druck­er, I think it was also said, you can’t man­age what you can’t mea­sure.

So we do need mea­sure­ments and tar­gets. It’s just they’ve got­ta be real­ly [00:09:00] well and mon­i­tored for gam­ing and for oth­er vari­ances or change reg­u­lar­ly to

Cameron: Mm-hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: At Microsoft, we used to say that, which gets mea­sured, gets done, but that’s a dif­fer­ent thing, you know? Um, yeah. You have to mea­sure things. You have to mea­sure, mea­sure your met­rics, your KPIs and all that kind stuff. But I, I, if. The mar­kets are reward­ing com­pa­nies on cer­tain met­rics, then they will inevitably, in some cas­es, get gamed, par­tic­u­lar­ly if per­for­mance bonus­es and incen­tives are built around them.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah. And espe­cial­ly if the tar­gets aren’t well set, and the arti­cle you sent through gave a good exam­ple of set a tar­get for sell­ing cars, some­one will even­tu­al­ly sell cars at a loss to achieve the tar­get,

Cameron: Yeah,

Tony Kynas­ton: for the busi­ness. Right, and not the inten­tion.

Cameron: well, it’s the paper­clip par­a­digm with ai, the paper­clip sce­nario that I’m sure you’ve heard about the, uh, well it’s, it’s been around for decades, like, um, in [00:10:00] AI cir­cles, well before the cur­rent AI par­a­digm. But, uh, the, the the­o­ry is you build a super intel­li­gent AI and you give it the job of mak­ing paper­clips.

If you, if it’s told that’s what it has to do, it will dis­man­tle every­thing on the plan­et in order to make paper clips. Right? So you have to.

Tony Kynas­ton: a poten­tial out­come for ai. I, I sus­pect it’s gonna be data cen­ters and elec­tric­i­ty gen­er­a­tion or nuclear reac­tors rather than paper­clips. But yeah, you can see a future where we, we have nuclear reac­tors on every cor­ner to pow­er the ai.

Cameron: Yeah. Well, uh, I tell you, who’s not gonna be able to afford to, uh, build nuclear pow­er sta­tions in every cor­ner as Don­ald Trump? Uh,

Tony Kynas­ton: Real­ly? Did­n’t he make $2 bil­lion last month or some­thing from anoth­er coin issue?

Cameron: well, he, he per­son­al­ly might be able to afford it. I don’t think his econ­o­my is, uh, New York Times arti­cle. Sec­ond week jobs report [00:11:00] week as in WEAK, not WEEK. Sec­ond week jobs report under­cuts Trump’s claims of a boom­ing econ­o­my. After a bad employ­ment report in August, pres­i­dent Trump fired the offi­cial in charge of the num­bers.

This mon­th’s data was just as dis­ap­point­ing.

Tony Kynas­ton: We’d hate

Cameron: So, uh.

Tony Kynas­ton: you? You would­n’t wan­na walk into the Oval Office and find plas­tic on the floor if you were head­ing up the gov­ern­ment stats after that.

Cameron: With, uh, Chris­t­ian Bales singing, giv­ing you a lec­ture on Huey Lewis and the news and, uh, why their 1985 album was a clas­sic. Yeah, I mean, oh, the, the, this arti­cle went on to talk about all the stuff that, um, we’ve sort of joked about. Over the last cou­ple of months, ana­lysts offered a vari­ety of expla­na­tions for the slow­down the pres­i­den­t’s tar­iffs on.

Near­ly all imports have dri­ven up costs for com­pa­nies and prices for con­sumers. Mr. Trump’s immi­gra­tion [00:12:00] crack­down has made it hard­er for many busi­ness­es to find work­ers while simul­ta­ne­ous­ly reduc­ing the need for them because they now have few­er cus­tomers. The fed­er­al gov­ern­ment has cut jobs direct­ly and can­celed grants and con­tracts that have bled into the pri­vate sec­tor.

The uncer­tain­ty. Sur­round­ing Mr. Trump’s ever shift­ing poli­cies has made cor­po­rate exec­u­tives more cau­tious about hir­ing and invest­ing. But those expla­na­tions all ulti­mate­ly boiled down to one key fac­tor. Mr. Trump, who regained con­trol of the White House on promis­es of faster growth and low­er prices, has estab­lished poli­cies that are hav­ing pre­cise­ly the oppo­site effect.

Infla­tion data due next week is expect­ed to show the con­sumer prices rose more quick­ly in August as com­pa­nies increas­ing­ly pass along the cost of high­er tar­iffs. We’ve got a pri­vate sec­tor that’s caught in a pinch here between these high­er cost pres­sures and reduced demand, said Gre­go­ry Darko, not Tarko.

That would be Pres­i­dent Tarko, but this is Gre­go­ry Darko. Not D‑A-R-K‑O as in Don­ny [00:13:00] Darko, but DACO, chief Econ­o­mist for the con­sult­ing firm. EY Parthenon. Ey Parthenon real­ly did they merge with the Parthenon? Both mea­sures, whether it’s infla­tion or employ­ment, are mov­ing in the wrong direc­tion. They’re mov­ing toward a stagfla­tion­ary envi­ron­ment.

Explain to me again what stagfla­tion is, Tony,

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, it’s um, uh, coun­tries like Zim­bab­we expe­ri­ence where CPI goes through the roof, the econ­o­my goes back­wards and infla­tion just goes into over­drive. So you get, you know, you get infla­tion of hun­dreds or thou­sands of a per­cent, basi­cal­ly econ­o­my’s stuffed

Cameron: Oh, okay. That’s, that’s the tech­ni­cal term. The econ­o­my stuffed,

Tony Kynas­ton: Costs, costs go up and growth goes down,

Cameron: right?

Tony Kynas­ton: Quick­ly at the same time. Yeah. But of course, what tar­iffs can, they’ve just been, uh, over­turned by an appel­late [00:14:00] court, so there are no tar­iffs.

Cameron: Mm. Well, not tech­ni­cal­ly yet. I, he’s, he’s still gonna appeal that, tak­ing that to the Supreme Court. I did see the oth­er day that, I mean, they’ve raised hun­dreds of bil­lions of dol­lars from tar­iffs already, and they’re gonna have to pay it all back. If the Supreme Court says, nah, sor­ry, which is unlike­ly, but if they do do that, he’s got­ta pay hun­dreds of bil­lions of dol­lars back.

And then that’s got­ta go back into the food chain. Every­one needs to reim­burse every­one who’s paid. By the way, you see that they’ve, they’ve, um, Aus­tralia posters stopped ship­ping parcels of a cer­tain sized.

Tony Kynas­ton: below $800. Yeah.

Cameron: Was it re did we decide that’s how they were pro­nounced?

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh,

Cameron: Satire CTT, what’s hap­pened to their share price this week? I has­ten to, I should just look at your pulled pork track record spread­sheet and, um, that’ll tell me, uh, [00:15:00] CTTI think it had been fac­tored in for a while, but it,

Tony Kynas­ton: We spoke about it when I did the pulled pork,

Cameron: they’re killing it.

Their share prices jumped from 33 cents over the last cou­ple of days to 45 cents. What, what, what’s going on? How does that make any sense?

Tony Kynas­ton: peo­ple have just got­ten around to the pulled pork hear­ing about the pulled pork and said, uh.

Cameron: Satire drops to full year loss as rev­enue growth. Flat­lines and direc­tor walks online fash­ion retail­er satire has tum­bled to a statu­to­ry net loss after tax of 2.6 mil­lion from a 10.5 mil­lion prof­it last year. As the com­pa­ny cit­ed sig­nif­i­cant head­winds dri­ving a slow­down in demand dur­ing the peri­od.

Com­pa­ny direc­tor Daniel AGAs Del­li has also depart­ed the board after only being appoint­ed in April to focus on his role as CEO of extent group the num­bers. How­ev­er, [00:16:00] ana­lysts were expect­ing a worse loss of three 8.7 mil­lion accord­ing to vis­i­ble alpha data. They were like, ah, it’s great. Was­n’t as, they did­n’t lose as much mon­ey as we thought.

Give the, give those peo­ple a prize. SATIRE shares jumped on Fri­day as ana­lysts raise con­cerns over hikes to exec­u­tive pay in the depar­ture of a direc­tor after less than six months on the board. What they said in a note to clients, RBC ana­lyst, www Chen said Satire’s top line results were large­ly in line with expec­ta­tions, but raised con­cerns that the com­pa­ny’s work­ing cap­i­tal bal­ance is con­tin­u­ing to unwind.

After cash on the books fell by $8 mil­lion.

 Any­way, Daniel Ag Goss Del­li is out after four months. Wow.

Tony Kynas­ton: he was on the board. He’s the CEO of ASX one, which is, has been on our buy list before as well. The, the shoe com­pa­ny,

Cameron: Yes. Well, any­way, there you go. So you pulled Pork Track records prob­a­bly look­ing even bet­ter now. [00:17:00] Tony, like, uh, you’re killing it.

Tony Kynas­ton: 55 cents when I did the pulled pork, if I’m hon­est.

Cameron: Okay. Dammit. well,

Tony Kynas­ton: I’m hon­est, dur­ing the pulled pork, I said it had fall­en below its byline

Cameron: yes. Yes.

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: Yeah. Okay. So you get an out for that one

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah, I get a, I get a card,

Cameron: any­more.

Tony Kynas­ton: that want.

Cameron: So, so the us So Aus­tralia posters stopped ship­ments because of the, uh, can’t remem­ber what they call it.

Tony Kynas­ton: they dun­no how to col­lect the tar­iff or how it’s gonna be col­lect­ed. So they can’t charge the cus­tomer before they mail an amount because they dun­no how it’s gonna be col­lect­ed when it gets to the US So, and Aus­tralia Post is just fol­low­ing suit with all, you know, a lot of oth­er coun­tries around the world that have stopped doing it as well. Yeah. So, uh, you know, you won­der what’s gonna hap­pen to the US econ­o­my. What hap­pens to [00:18:00] Ama­zon com­pa­nies like that. Um,

Cameron: Well, Ama­zon’s.

Tony Kynas­ton: for small

Cameron: they? Well, but they’re domes­tic, right? You imag­ine it’s Ama­zon’s being shipped domes­ti­cal­ly in the US not com­ing in from over­seas.

Tony Kynas­ton: a lot, com­ing from Chi­na, I would’ve thought. And oth­er coun­tries

Cameron: Yeah, maybe, but it’s any­thing over, I think $800.

Tony Kynas­ton: the min­imus was the law, which said if a par­cel was less than $800 US, it did­n’t attract, uh, cus­toms and excise duty. That applies to larg­er parcels.

Cameron: Right. So they’ve stopped ship­ping any parcels. Is that right? Regard­less of the val­ue.

Tony Kynas­ton: Now Aus­tralia Post is still, I think, still ship­ping post parcels above $800 in val­ue. And you know, you want, I think the oth­er prob­lem would be is, um, uh. [00:19:00] Well, no, I was gonna say peo­ple would be fal­si­fy­ing what they put on as the val­ue of the par­cel that it prob­a­bly does­n’t mat­ter. Yeah, I don’t, I don’t know. Um, if Aus­tralia Post is still post­ing to the us the, the arti­cle I read said about we just weren’t post­ing small parcels to the us The larg­er ones would’ve been attract­ing the, um, the exer­cis­es any­way, so they would’ve known how to han­dle that.

Cameron: Here’s the notice on Aus­tralia Post web­site. Um, Aus­tralia Post has tem­porar­i­ly sus­pend­ed some postal ser­vices to the US in its over­seas ter­ri­to­ries. They plan to resume postal send­ing on or before Thurs­day, the 25th of Sep­tem­ber, 2025. The USD $800 exemp­tion for low val­ue goods has been removed for postal and com­mer­cial send­ing duties are to be col­lect­ed pri­or to goods enter­ing the us What does this mean for you?

[00:20:00] Once postal ser­vices resume, you’ll need to set up a ver­i­fied account with Zenoss to ensure your ship­ments are accept­ed and min­i­mize the risk of pro­cess­ing delays. Okay. Hope nobody orders mar­ket­ing the Mes­si­ah on USB, because I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna set up one of those

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm.

Cameron: Um, there you go. So just fun and games with the US econ­o­my.

I mean, I mean, I’m shocked and sur­prised that, uh, elect­ing Don­ald Trump could lead the chaos. Tony, and I don’t think any­one saw that com­ing.

Tony Kynas­ton: And, and this is the least of the chaos, I would’ve thought, like, you know, um, hold­ing a cage fight in the White House is prob­a­bly the best exam­ple I’ve seen of the chaos that’s going on the, in the us the south lawn into a Um, to, to be able to hold con­certs and things in it. It’s just incred­i­ble.

Cameron: And he was hawk­ing Tes­la cars in the front lawn

Tony Kynas­ton: [00:21:00] Yes,

Cameron: days of him and Elon.

Tony Kynas­ton: And it’s, and Elon’s now being offered a tril­lion dol­lars to focus on, uh, tar­gets. Speak­ing of on Tes­la’s share price to reach

Cameron: A tril­lion dol­lars in remu­ner­a­tion

Tony Kynas­ton: So you can actu­al­ly say that being a part of the White House actu­al­ly has worked out very long ’cause it’s,

Cameron: because it defo­cused him.

Tony Kynas­ton: he’ll be fair­ly, fair­ly famil­iar with good hearts.

Lau­ra would’ve thought he’ll be, he’ll be achiev­ing his tar­gets by hook or by crook.

Cameron: Oh, by Gro and opti­mist robots.

Tony Kynas­ton: It’d be prob­a­bly share splits or some­thing to get the share price to where he needs it to be or what­ev­er. issues. Share buy­backs. Yeah,

Cameron: Wow.

Tony Kynas­ton: you take, you’d take that, would­n’t you? Yeah.

I’ll focus on the share price. Now. We’re doing a buy­back.

Cameron: Does he need anoth­er tril­lion dol­lars though? Real­ly?

Tony Kynas­ton: You nev­er ask a bil­lion­aire if they need anoth­er bil­lion dol­lars, can, of course they do. They need more.

Cameron: Yeah. [00:22:00] I was talk­ing to San­ti­no before about, um,

Tony Kynas­ton: Got how

Cameron: he’s got

Tony Kynas­ton: kids? or

Cameron: kids. Yeah, yeah.

Uh, OPEC plus agrees fur­ther oil out­put boost from Octo­ber to regain mar­ket share. I don’t imag­ine that’s gonna be a good thing for the oil price, Tony.

Tony Kynas­ton: would­n’t have thought. So. Sup­ply and demand law. Yep. So, um. You expect the oil price to drop, uh, which is what Trump wants. So I won­der if there’s some­thing else going on there between Sau­di Ara­bia and Don­ald Trump. Yeah. You know, could be a bit of quid pro quo. I don’t know. But yeah, it prob­a­bly will mean that the petrol price will drop it.

Cameron: Mm.

Tony Kynas­ton: Anoth­er exam­ple of Don­ald Trump win­ning.

Cameron: Just non­stop win­ning. Oh, that’s all I’ve got [00:23:00] on my news. Well, there are some things that Steve sent through. There’s been a few. Please explain let­ters. Do you wan­na talk about the Please Explain let­ters.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah, look, we, we’ve cov­ered it a lot. There was three that, um, or two that Steve gave and one that you gave. Um, the exam­ples that Steve gave were koan, uh, met­al detec­tor com­pa­ny James Hardy, the build­ing mate­ri­als com­pa­ny. And then you put out one for room media includ­ed one for a media. All three com­pa­nies have received speed­ing tick­ets from the ASX, or please explain let­ters as to why, um, the share prices moved mate­ri­al­ly. I think all three, the move­ments hap­pened after annu­al reports came out. Um, and you would expect that, uh, if the, if man­age­ment thought that the share price was gonna move mate­ri­al­ly into August, they should have. the mar­ket some­how. Um, there’s always it’s, look, it’s get­ting to the stage where it’s actu­al­ly fun to read these [00:24:00] respons­es from the com­pa­nies just to see how twist­ed they can get. Um, uh, I, I’m care­ful with what I say, so it’s not action­able, but, um, one of those three com­pa­nies said, uh, we were with­in guid­ance of 2%. Uh, full dis­clo­sure, that was, except for the large intan­gi­ble write down, we took on. On the bal­ance sheet, which was nev­er, nev­er announced to the mar­ket until the results came out. And I’m sure if they were pressed, they’d say, well, we did­n’t think about it until just before we announced it. Anoth­er one of the com­pa­nies said, um, the board did­n’t come to a con­clu­sion on guid­ance until half an hour before we issued the, uh, ASX announce­ment. So I’m think­ing to myself like, it isn’t so until the board says it’s so, it’s like sure­ly some­one pre­pared the papers that went to the board that caused them to, uh, to, you know, issue guid­ance that, uh, move the share price.

So, you know, it’s, it’s becom­ing com­i­cal now what, um, what these com­pa­nies do and what the ASX does. [00:25:00] Uh, I did a bit of Googling, uh, after I saw this was an issue. And, um, there are, there have been cas­es where. Con­tin­u­ous guid­ance has been pros­e­cut­ed by the, uh, by asic. So the ASX does­n’t seem to do any­thing.

So that’s one crit­i­cism I have is that they issue these notices to the com­pa­ny say­ing, please tell us why share price is up or down by a large amount, and why, and have you been, uh, adher­ing to the Cor­po­ra­tions Act, which says you must keep the mar­ket informed. And they come back with their, with their answers.

And that’s the last we hear of it. There’s nev­er any announce­ment from the ASX chal­leng­ing the com­pa­ny’s response or say­ing, Hey, this is not good enough. We’re gonna de-list you for a while. We’re gonna fine you. And maybe that’s not the as x’s role, but they don’t even say how we’re refer­ring this to the, um, A SIC, the asic, the secu­ri­ties, um. Reg­u­la­tor and there have been cas­es about half a dozen. I could see quick­ly with [00:26:00] Googling about com­pa­nies which have been fined by ASIC for breach­es of con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sure. it seems like ASIC Pro quite pos­si­bly has to set a, a very high bar. to be very extreme exam­ples that get fined.

One of which are I as to add was by the ASX itself. The com­pa­ny that runs the shared mar­ket was tak­en to court for a dis­clo­sure issue or a trans­paren­cy issue. So, um, yeah, I I’ve long thought that there needs to be some­thing else done here. Um, when Steve sent through the email, my imme­di­ate thought was set­ting up some rules. If you, if your share price moves by a cer­tain amount on results day and you are out­side the guid­ance of by a par­tic­u­lar per­cent, um, then, you know it’s a slid­ing scale. Fine. It’s 50 grand for the first one, 50 50 grand per 1% devi­a­tion or some­thing like that. Just to try and prod these com­pa­nies to dis­close ear­li­er. Uh, as we’ve said, it’s in their own best [00:27:00] inter­est to dis­close ear­ly ’cause it’s like­ly to be, if they know it’s going to be a, a hit to the share price, the soon­er you can get it out there, it’s be quite pos­si­bly gonna be bet­ter for them. still get a hit to the share price, but they have, um, time to, you know, take action and do things,

Cameron: You say 50 grand, I say five years.

Tony Kynas­ton: or,

what the direc­tors

Cameron: Yeah. Yeah. Five years.

Tony Kynas­ton: then you don’t get, any direc­tors. They’ll resign from the CIW board on that basis.

Cameron: No. We’ll get to oth­er direc­tors. If you, if you, if you don’t give, if you don’t give guid­ance, if you just do your job, just peo­ple who will do the job is who will do it? Pay me $500,000 a year and I’ll do my job. All we’re ask­ing them to do is give us advanced warn­ing if the results aren’t gonna be what they said they were gonna be, that’s all.

It’s not rock­et sci­ence here, and if you don’t do it, you go to jail five years, boom. Like, like politi­cians lying. If you say, if [00:28:00] you make a cam­paign promise, then you get elect­ed and you don’t deliv­er on it. Auto­mat­ic five years in jail, what gets mea­sured? Tony Good Heart’s Law

Tony Kynas­ton: well, that’s why I agree. I don’t think, I don’t think jail terms is the right solu­tion. I think com­pa­ny finds is when, for a start, um,

Cameron: there’s noth­ing. It’s a slap on the wrist. You just make sure the prof­it is big­ger than the fine. Right. And it’s, no, we know com­pa­ny fines don’t work Jail time, hard time too. Not a, not a, not a fan­cy CEO jail. I’m talk­ing about Bog­ger Road, H Divi­sion, chop­per Reed is your cell­mate. That kind of jail time.

Tony Kynas­ton: Hi. What are you NH divi­sion for? Uh, armed. Hold up. What are you in? Kind of the same thing, but it was a breach of con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sure.

Cameron: Absolute­ly. Hey, by the way, I dun­no if you saw this, but the OML response to the ASX let­ter was signed by their com­pa­ny sec­re­tary,

Tony Kynas­ton: mm-hmm.

Cameron: um, who, that was on the, her name was, uh, [00:29:00] Melis­sa Jones. That was on the 2nd of Sep­tem­ber. On the 3rd of Sep­tem­ber when Melis­sa Jones resigned as com­pa­ny sec­re­tary. Effec­tive imme­di­ate­ly.

Yeah. Uh, and, uh, their announce­ment says, Ooh, would like to thank Melis­sa for her valu­able con­tri­bu­tion as com­pa­ny sec­re­tary.

Tony Kynas­ton: Uh, could be inci­dent. I don’t know. What are you, what are you imply­ing?

Cameron: I’m not imply­ing any­thing. I’m just say­ing that she wrote this long jus­ti­fi­ca­tion, well signed this long jus­ti­fi­ca­tion let­ter, and then resigned the next day and left effec­tive imme­di­ate­ly.

Tony Kynas­ton: I’d sus­pect the, um, yeah, go on.

Cameron: I’m just say­ing it’s, uh, I don’t know. Maybe that was it. Maybe she was like, yeah, I can’t do this any­more. Maybe it was like, throw her under the bus. I don’t know.

Tony Kynas­ton: uh,

Cameron: Who knows?

Tony Kynas­ton: but, um, don’t know, dun­no the cir­cum­stances, but I mean, I think the, she may have signed the let­ter, but I think it would’ve been pre­pared by the com­pa­ny lawyers.

Cameron: [00:30:00] Sure.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah, and that’s

Cameron: As w.

Tony Kynas­ton: that’s what the prob­lem Mabb is hav­ing.

Even if you had five year jail terms for direc­tors, that you’d be held up in court for at least that time. While lawyers argued about what con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sure meant. What does a rea­son­able per, who is a rea­son­able per­son, what are they expect­ed to do, et cetera, et cetera. You’ve got­ta

Cameron: no.

Tony Kynas­ton: got­ta around it.

Cameron: Yeah, no law­fare allowed. That’s part of the con­di­tions. Yeah. No appeals. No appeals. Just imme­di­ate jail time. Just off you go. ice. Like ice turns up, but it’s like, it’s like you’re a work­er at a Hyundai plant. Ice works up. Ice rocks up. in the band, you’re in the van. Next thing you know it, you’re in, I don’t know, Nicaragua or wher­ev­er they’re send­ing them.

Wher­ev­er the black sites are. CIA black sites for jails. Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: a black side? I thought they were just like get­ting to Texas and unload­ing the dump truck.

Cameron: Throw­ing them into, what is it, [00:31:00] alli­ga­tor heav­en. What’s the name of the jail? Some­thing. Um, yeah, no, but you throw them black sights in Syr­ia, like the CIA was doing dur­ing the bush years. Well, any­way. Yes. So asic you’re writ­ing let­ters and we’ll see if they do any­thing else apart from just

Tony Kynas­ton: No,

Cameron: wag. Wag­gle a fin­ger.

Tony Kynas­ton: the cor­po­rate lawyers are apply­ing and that’s just, that’s where it ends. Some of these will get picked up as class actions. Um,

Cameron: Yeah. Right.

Tony Kynas­ton: I think I’d be sur­prised if James Hardy, which is one of the exam­ples Steve gave, isn’t, um, in the cross­es at the moment, uh, by corp, by um, class action laws, but prob­a­bly not for con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sure. I mean, there any­one wants to Google, James Hardy in the last few months will find arti­cles about their acqui­si­tion of an Amer­i­can com­pa­ny. Um, what was it called? Aec, I think it’s called. So

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: are com­pa­ny. They oper­ate main­ly in the us but they have a lega­cy of, [00:32:00] um, being an Aus­tralian com­pa­ny.

They pro­duced plas­ter­board, which con­tained asbestos back in the, up until about the mid

Cameron: Good old days. Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: so they’ve had this, um, lia­bil­i­ty. I mean, that was the first time that that was actu­al­ly when direc­tors were pros­e­cut­ed per­son­al­ly. The James Harley board did face per­son­al pros­e­cu­tion, which is very rare under the cor­po­ra­tion’s law. Uh, and the upsell of all of that was that, um, direc­tors will find and barred, and James Hardy was told to set up a fund, which I think is, has a lia­bil­i­ty of about gonna say one and a half bil­lion dol­lars, that kind of order of mag­ni­tude, which they’re meant to pay out of free cash­flow going for­ward until all the vic­tims of the asbesto­sis, uh, com­pen­sat­ed, uh, includ­ing those which come for­ward in the future. So, um, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s been a. It’s, it’s had its prob­lems. Um, it, it’s, it has had some suc­cess in [00:33:00] mov­ing to the US for its oper­a­tions and it’s done well there. But, Trump’s tar­iffs seem to have killed the ren­o­va­tion busi­ness in the us. Um, one of the issues over there, of course, is their mort­gages are dif­fer­ent to what they are here and they’re fixed over a long peri­od of time, say 30 years.

And if you locked in a long-term mort­gage, when in COVID when inter­est rates were 2%, you’re not about to move house now and face your mort­gage to 6% or 7%. Um. You’ll stay where you are, which means that peo­ple aren’t mov­ing and there­fore there’s not as much ren­o­va­tion going on and build­ing going on. And so James Hardy is in, in the, in the dol­drums at the moment. I was look­ing for growth that acquired this US com­pa­ny. The issue at hand was that they applied to the ASX to get a waiv­er to, um, avoid a share­hold­er James Hardy share­hold­er vote on the takeover of the US com­pa­ny, involved the issu­ing of some­thing like 35% of new shares in the com­pa­ny in James Hardy to acquire this, [00:34:00] uh, US com­pa­ny.

And all the Aus­tralian share­hold­ers mean, whoa, whoa. What do you mean you gonna take this com­pa­ny over issue 35% more shares and not ask us to vote on it? ’cause there are rules around how much you can, how many shares you can issue with­out going to a share­hold­er vote. It’s nor­mal­ly around 10% per annum. Uh, and the ASX gave ’em a waiv­er which caused all kinds of ruc­tions in the funds man­age­ment issue, all kinds of back­lash against the ASX.

And James Har, Hardy, uh, who then came out and said they were going to move their list­ing from Aus­tralia to the, uh, us. So their pri­ma­ry list­ing will be in the us. Um, there has been some crum­bling that, that may prob­lems for the asbestos lia­bil­i­ty being enforced, but, um, that’s has­n’t come out.

The com­pa­ny has­n’t come out and said that they’re not going to do that. Um, but who knows? The peo­ple who are at the asbestos lia­bil­i­ty are a bit wor­ried, um, about its con­tin­u­ing, um, [00:35:00] fund­ing and it’s being fund­ed out­ta free cash­flow. And, uh, they’re hav­ing a bad time. On the prof­it line. So fund­ing may go down going for­ward too.

So there’s a whole of issues around James Hardy and I, my gut feel is the least of which will be con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sure, um, if it even sur­vives as an ASX list­ed com­pa­ny in Aus­tralia.

Cameron: JHC the record, if you. Real­ly?

Tony Kynas­ton: I think so.

Cameron: Oh, oh yeah. JHX. You’re right. Sor­ry. JHX.

What else you got to talk about tk.

Tony Kynas­ton: Uh, we, well, we’ve had some good results. Um, I’m just gonna, uh, includ­ing our old friend, uh, NWH,

Cameron: I.

Tony Kynas­ton: so let me call that one up. NWH, uh, which is, um, I think the code for NRW, which is a, a, uh. Com­pa­ny pro­vid­ing con­tract­ing ser­vices to [00:36:00] the min­ing indus­try. the head, the head­line reads, NRW shares pop on deal that ticks all 20, 25 box­es. WA based con­trac­tor, NRW Hold­ings is an ASX 200 sta­ple. makes most of its mon­ey build­ing and main­tain­ing mine site and civ­il infra­struc­ture, writ­ing the ups and downs on the min­ing cycle, and its cus­tomers include Rio Tin­to and BHP. Um, the arti­cle goes on the talk about, uh, it, it’s faced, uh. Almost con­tin­u­ous, uh, oppo­si­tion to its REM report, but does­n’t seem to mat­ter because, uh, the stock is up 77% since US Pres­i­dent Don­ald Trump’s Lib­er­a­tion Day tar­iff announce­ments in April. uh, uh, bumped along by its FY 25 result, and on Tues­day by its biggest acqui­si­tion yet. So NRW are buy­ing elec­tri­cal and tech con­trac­tor called Frieden, F‑R-E-D-O-N‑A, Syd­ney based busi­ness that, uh, they’ve writ­ten up as, this is the AFR I’m talk­ing about. I’m [00:37:00] read­ing from an AFR arti­cle, a Syd­ney based busi­ness that we’ve writ­ten up as an IPO con­tender just about every year for the past five years for up to $200 mil­lion.

So, um, yeah, NRW doing well, uh, it’s been on the buy list before strong. Good results,

Cameron: I’ve been real­ly good in, uh, my port­fo­lios too.

Tony Kynas­ton: Okay. Uh, oth­er good ones. Um, Per­cy is gold, so I kind of call it out. Um, they have, they’ve been, you know, going up because of the gold price increase as most oth­er gold min­ers are. They are a West African gold min­ers. So, um, we do know about sov­er­eign risk, which we spoke about a cou­ple of weeks ago. Uh, prof­it after tax increased by 16% and um, the gold price was up 26%.

And rev­enue rose kind of in line with that up 22%. [00:38:00] Um, costs have risen a lit­tle bit. They rose 17%. So what’s called the all in sus­tain­able cost, is a way of, um, keep­ing, uh, costs, uh, equal­ly mea­sured across gold com­pa­nies. That was up 17%. Um. What else? Cash­flow jumped by 25%, et cetera, et cetera. Um, so good result.

The rea­son why I’m high­light­ing it is that Stock Doc­tor have recent­ly made it a star stock I think a star income stock too. So, uh, it gets an extra tick on our check­list. Because of that,

Cameron: Very good.

Tony Kynas­ton: The last one to talk about is IGL. It’s the code Ive group, IVE group. And uh, they also have become a star growth and star income stock. Um, and Stock Doc­tor put them in fol­low­ing their results. So. IVE is Aus­trali­a’s largest inte­grat­ed print and mar­ket­ing ser­vices com­pa­ny serv­ing major [00:39:00] retail­ers such as Kohl’s, Wool­worths, and West Farm­ers. So since acquir­ing OTOs assets in 2022, uh, uh, sort of com­peti­tor print­ing com­pa­ny, has cement­ed its mar­ket lead­er­ship, expand­ed cus­tomer rela­tion­ships, and achieved mean­ing­ful syn­er­gies.

So, uh, what else can I say? Div­i­dend was up, um, yield of 6.3%, 9% grossed up a fair­ly low pay­out ratio of 54%. Um, although I think it’s gone next div­i­dend today, so it might be a lit­tle bit late if any­one wants to go out and buy a, yield­ing star stock here a bit late prob­a­bly. they have invest­ed in ware­house improve­ments, so they’ve invest­ed a large ware­house in Dan­de­nong and in a place called Kem­p’s Creek in Syd­ney. And both of those are expect­ed to add sig­nif­i­cant­ly to capac­i­ty inef­fi­cien­cy. Um, rev­enue did drip or [00:40:00] dip slight­ly between 25 24 and, um, ROE strong at 24%. So num­ber of issues there that the, um, I think the feel­ing is the print mar­ket is rel­a­tive­ly in decline. You know, news­pa­pers obvi­ous­ly is an exam­ple of that.

Um, mag­a­zines are an exam­ple of that, but this com­pa­ny’s to have suc­cess­ful­ly, branched out into pro­duc­ing labels on pack­aged goods and box­es and print­ing car­tons, et cetera. So going well for it.

Cameron: Good.

Tony Kynas­ton: So that’s that one. And yeah, that’s, I think that’s all I’ve got on the earn­ings income. Round cou­ple of things. When I was going through doing my down­load this week, it just, um, did pay atten­tion to if, if peo­ple are using their own spread­sheets or the one that I issued, um, well prob­a­bly any­one, I think you might update these in yours, but, uh, to reit­er­ate, the cash rate is now 3.6% [00:41:00] and I use the RBAs web­site for the aver­age mort­gage rate, which is 5.73% now.

So just make sure you’re up to date those two changes, which have hap­pened in the last cou­ple of weeks.

Cameron: I updat­ed mine last night. Fun­ny you should men­tion that. Try and do it at the begin­ning of the month, but I was a bit late. I got a cou­ple of things I just want­ed to men­tion that car Karun Ener­gy’s not been hav­ing a good run. It’s uh, get­ting close to a, uh, rule one cell for me, but I just want­ed to make every­one aware if they are look­ing at car, if you hold it, that it is X div when X diviv about a week ago.

So just keep an eye on that. But the share prices, uh, dropped quite a bit, uh, to reflect that in the last week or so. Drop from a buck 90 down to dol­lar 62 and oil. Oil is a Josephine as well, which isn’t [00:42:00] help­ing, but just keep an eye on that. It’s a zero franked div­i­dend of 2.40 cents too, so it’s not gonna, um, not gonna change your sell prices a great deal.

It’s, I bought it back in June around a dol­lar 97, 1 par­cel, and $2 sev­en for anoth­er par­cel. Now it’s a dol­lar 65, so it’s dropped quite a bit. The, uh, three point cell line’s a dol­lar 43, though it’s got a while before it hits that, but my real one’s get­ting close. I also want­ed to men­tion Paul said that cash con­vert­ers CFO resigned after just two years in the job to quote unquote, pur­sue oth­er pro­fes­sion­al oppor­tu­ni­ties.

I went and had a look at the announce­ment and there was­n’t much in the announce­ment either. Jaun­ty Jaun­ty Gibbs has tend­ed his res­ig­na­tion to pur­sue new pro­fes­sion­al oppor­tu­ni­ties. [00:43:00] Uh, that’s it pret­ty much. Um, no. Best of luck. Oh, no, sor­ry. Man­ag­ing direc­tor. We extend our sin­cere thanks to Jaun­ty for his ded­i­ca­tion, but noth­ing about, uh, serv­ing out a peri­od, a term, just the, the com­pa­ny’s com­menced a for­mal exec­u­tive recruit­ment process.

It does­n’t say when he is leav­ing. Uh, red flag, do you think Tony?

Tony Kynas­ton: Look, I could­n’t find much infor­ma­tion on this one. It was a hard one because my gut says he’s been poached, he’s poten­tial­ly a good CFO who’s now tak­ing up a role for anoth­er com­pa­ny. So, um, I looked at the share price, which has been doing okay. So there’s no sort of imme­di­ate need to act, I don’t think.

But, um, I’d be mon­i­tor­ing this one to see where he pops up next. Um, and if it’s with a big­ger com­pa­ny, then I’d, I’d say he’s just been head­hunt­ed.

Cameron: It is down 10%.

Tony Kynas­ton: he, does­n’t, if he does­n’t pop up any­where, then it’s prob­a­bly a red flag, I would think

Cameron: [00:44:00] Right? So what do we do for CCV? Just

Tony Kynas­ton: we just

Cameron: and see.

Tony Kynas­ton: and wait and see. Yeah. It’s a, it’s a messy one.

Cameron: It is on the buy list. Quite high on the buy list too. This week it’s in the top 10.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yep. So I would hold off buy­ing it. Um, I mean,

Cameron: You would.

Tony Kynas­ton: 10% it’s a Josephine. But, um, thought. But, um, yeah, I would, until there’s some clar­i­ty, I’d like to know more about where he is going to, what his rea­son for leav­ing was, which will hope­ful­ly come out. It’s always hard on small com­pa­nies.

It’s usu­al­ly eas­i­er for a big­ger com­pa­ny ’cause, um, if he’s being poached by anoth­er ASX com­pa­ny, we should a, uh, announce­ment on that well.

Cameron: It is not a Josephine. In fact, the bread lat­er looks stun­ning. It’s like going ver­ti­cal. Um, since April, the share price pre­vi­ous month close [00:45:00] was 34 cents. Cur­rent­ly at 35 cents, but it was as high as 38 cents last week, which is why I said it’s down 10%. But, um, yeah. Any­way, I’ll make a note in my buy list for next week to, uh, put a flag on it.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah. Look, I’m, I’m sor­ry I can’t be more defin­i­tive because I, all my search­ing did­n’t come up with any more infor­ma­tion than just that release from cash con­vert­er say­ing he’s leav­ing and

Cameron: Mm.

Tony Kynas­ton: do a search to hire some­one to replace him,

Cameron: that unusu­al in your expe­ri­ence? Yeah, but still, you would say nor­mal­ly a senior exec­u­tive C‑suite posi­tion like that, if you get head­hunt­ed and poached, you’re gonna have a serve out peri­od, right? You’re gonna

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: the next 90 days, 30 days, what­ev­er it is, to just not make any men­tion in the release [00:46:00] about when he is effec­tive­ly leav­ing the build­ing is weird.

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm. is

Cameron: Okay.

Tony Kynas­ton: again, wel­come to cor­po­rate gov­er­nance land in small cap ASX world. Yeah, I mean, for a start, the real news came out, and I don’t know again, with the, if, if the share price is down 10%, I would’ve thought at least the ASX should be writ­ing to them say­ing, can you give us more infor­ma­tion? Um, I sus­pect it’s not cov­ered by many ana­lysts, but they’d be ask­ing ques­tions too.

So it’s a, a, it’s a hard one to under­stand what’s going on, but it, like, it’s, it’s bor­der­line for me.

Cameron: Yeah. All right. I’ve added it to my red flag notes for next week,

Tony Kynas­ton: I know the next ques­tion will be, when do we take it off? Um, and I, I don’t have a defin­i­tive answer for that either.

Cameron: and they’re one of our favorite stocks too. CCV. We love the CCV, you know, [00:47:00] good lit­tle busi­ness.

Tony Kynas­ton: Should be doing well giv­en, um, cost of liv­ing issues. It’s that kind of busi­ness, real­ly.

Cameron: Yeah. I had to take Fox in there recent­ly and pawn him for a while just so I could pay the rent. would­n’t take him. They were like, no, he’s defec­tive. Send him back. He, he spent five min­utes in there trash the joint. No, get him out­ta here. Uh, okay.

Tony Kynas­ton: Poke­mon card in.

Cameron: Yeah. Yeah. Sold that. That’s right. He had anoth­er con­ver­sa­tion he was say­ing to me, I took him down the park there that he goes, you know, um, instead of, uh, you know, we have the Bank of Dad­dy thing, that he has mon­ey and instead of invest­ing in the bank of Dad­dy, I think I’m gonna invest in Poke­mon cards.

I said, you can’t use those words in the same sen­tence. I’m sor­ry. They, you can’t. He goes, no, no, no. Some peo­ple I go, no, no, no. And I, I pulled out GPT and I said, Fox thinks it’s in Poke­mon cards are actu­al­ly an invest­ment. What do you think? He goes, it was like, [00:48:00] lis­ten, you know, once in a blue moon, some­body is able to buy some­thing and sell it at a prof­it, but 99% of the time, that does­n’t work out.

It’s real­ly just a hob­by. Feel free col­lect­ing Poke­mon cards, but don’t think of it as an invest­ment. And he, he’s like, ah, I want his chat. GP Tino. Um, do you want me to do the ques­tions? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I say talk to your broth­ers like your broth­ers wast­ed a for­tune on Poke­mon cards when they were your age too.

And now both of them will tell you it was absolute­ly stu­pid and a big waste of mon­ey. But, uh, okay. Cou­ple of ques­tions, Paul, again, what about Fin Bar, apart­ment Builder or Noble Oak Life Insur­ance for a pulled pork this week? Fin­bar has been in and out for a few months, and Nobel Oak is new, both inter­est­ing and pret­ty dif­fer­ent com­pa­nies.

I reck­on FRI and NOL are those two stocks. you picked one of those for today? Do.

Tony Kynas­ton: Fin, I, picked Fin­bar based on Paul’s request, and I, it’s [00:49:00] been on my mind to do it for a while. It’s, it’s not a large a DT stock, so I try, I try and do big­ger ones, but, um, it’s been very high on the buy list for a while now. And I also thought I’d put some gaps between Fleet­wood, which is anoth­er, um, builder on the buy list, which I did think back in June.

So it’s prob­a­bly

Cameron: Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: now to do anoth­er builder. Fin Bar­r’s a builder of apart­ments in Perth.

Cameron: And then num­ber one on our buy list this week too, qual­i­ty score, a hun­dred per­cent QAV score 0.83. Aver­age dai­ly trade, 81,000. So they’re small, but yeah, they’re right up there.

Tony Kynas­ton: I

Cameron: Um,

Tony Kynas­ton: And pep­per mon­ey was num­ber one. Fin­bar was num­ber two. Any­way,

Cameron: around, but I did mine on Fri­day, so, or Sat­ur­day.

Tony Kynas­ton: Have

Cameron: Mm-hmm. It’s $2 25. Is that good?

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah, well have a look at the graph. It’s like asy, tical almost. It’s, [00:50:00] it’s going

Cameron: I bought them in May for the dum­my port­fo­lio and the light port­fo­lio at the begin­ning of May at a dol­lar 64. So they’re up 34% since May. That is very good. Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: isn’t it? Very

Cameron: Good.

Tony Kynas­ton: graph.

Cameron: Good job. Pep­per mon­ey.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: well, the only. The only oth­er ques­tion we have this week is from Jor­dan. Hi Cam. Hi Jor­dan. I was look­ing at the annu­al report for a IS this week­end.

So was I fun­ni­ly that, and notice that in the audi­tor’s report it includ­ed a key audit mat­ter basis of prepa­ra­tion of finan­cial report going con­cern. Nowhere in the audit report does it say there is a mate­r­i­al uncer­tain­ty. So I think the audit was okay, but I haven’t ever seen this includ­ed in the audit reports key audit mat­ter sec­tion.

So I was won­der­ing if it was a close call. Can you ask Tony what he thinks of it? A IS was one of the ones I was using as I was writ­ing my code only [00:51:00] because it’s an A, it was one of the first ones on my list that was an A that I could work with. Um, I haven’t got it open in front of me though, but I can pull up its annu­al report off my hard dri­ve.

What do you think? Did you have a look at this one, Tony?

Tony Kynas­ton: I

Cameron: Well, no, I’ll pull the report up.

Tony Kynas­ton: wrong with it myself, so I’m not sure whether I think it has had a qual­i­fied audit in the past. I’m not sure whether, is it Paul who’s look­ing at the pri­or annu­al report, but there’s one that’s been released in the last few weeks or last few days, which looks clean.

Cameron: Yeah, it was on our pre­vi­ous one back from the last time Alex or I looked at it. Um, this one does look yeah, clean. They talk about some key audit mat­ters, but they’re not flag­ging any­thing as being a prob­lem. What did I say In my buy list? That’s what I wan­na know.

Tony Kynas­ton: [00:52:00] Think you took it off. Um, the list for qual­i­fied audits in the buy list this week.

Cameron: QAV Audit scan. A IS is

Tony Kynas­ton: I have

Cameron: not.

Tony Kynas­ton: the on, um, based on it not hav­ing a qual­i­fied audit any­more,

Cameron: Oh, okay. Well, there you go. Um, a IS unmod­i­fied. Yes, unmod­i­fied. I’ve got it down as

Tony Kynas­ton: Right.

Cameron: on con­fi­dence rat­ing of 0.75. Accord­ing to my script, it’s con that’s its con­fi­dence in its, uh, uh, what­ev­er. Also, the oth­er good thing about my script, I dun­no if you looked at my lit­tle sheet, but it actu­al­ly, it lists the name.

It, it, it lists the name of the audi­tor, what page of the report the audi­tor is on, and then it grabs the text and puts the, the text that men­tions the audit sta­tus and puts that in the spread­sheet. Uh, just in [00:53:00] case you know, you wan­na have a quick read of it with­out open­ing the report.

Tony Kynas­ton: Not well done.

Cameron: Sexy, very sexy.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: Any­way, so yes. A IS

Tony Kynas­ton: audit­ing is, order­ing is sexy again.

Cameron: yeah, I’m mak­ing audit­ing sexy again. Uh, but yes, so, uh, we think it’s okay now, Jor­dan. And that’s, see that was one of the rea­sons I had to write the script is because this new list of reports, I mean the, all the, you know, we, we just got through report­ing sea­son, so a lot of the reports were out­dat­ed and I did­n’t want to have to go through and check all 200 of them.

So, um, I had anoth­er crack at it. So any­way, a IS got a clean bill of health. Good, good spot­ting Jor­dan. And by the way, if any­one has, uh, dis­cov­ers any com­pa­nies where my audit is wrong, please let me know. I did go and spot checked. A dozen of them after I did the, the final ver­sion of the script. It all seemed to be good.

But that’s not to say it. Per­fect. So there will, [00:54:00] I, I, I will no doubt have to tweak some of the, um, ter­mi­nol­o­gy, uh, search­ing aspects of it from time to time. So, but if you find any­thing that’s awry, let me know.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah, and I, I mean, I checked this one as well. When the ques­tion came up. I looked at the annu­al report myself. So it seems fine to me.

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: In fact, I think even in the, I haven’t got it in front of me. I think it even says in the very start of the report, audi­tors have said that’s a, well, they’ve reviewed the audit, they’ve reviewed the num­bers, and it’s an unqual­i­fied or some­thing like that.

Cameron: Oh, okay. Cool. Alright, Tony, do you wan­na talk? Fin bar, do you wan­na

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: Fin Bar­ris?

Tony Kynas­ton: Okay.

Cameron: Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: you. Um, inter­est­ing com­pa­ny. Uh. It’s as I said, well, I have it num­ber two. You have it Num­ber one on the buy list, a DT of 86,000. Um, so it’s, yeah, it prob­a­bly is time to do Fin­bar. it’s a [00:55:00] prop­er­ty devel­op­ment com­pa­ny and they lie in WA and almost exclu­sive­ly in Perth the met­ro­pol­i­tan area.

They did do, one devel­op­ment of an apart­ment build­ing in Kartha, as I could see. But oth­er­wise, it’s always Perth. Uh, they say on their web­site, they are the lead­ing apart­ment devel­op­er in WA, ded­i­cat­ing to devel­op­ing bet­ter lifestyles. With over 79 Land­mark wa devel­op­ments deliv­ered to date, Fin­bar con­tin­ues to define the sky­line in one of the most liv­able cities in the world. apart­ments built over the last 30 years, project deliv­ery suc­cess rate, and 30 con­sec­u­tive years of prof­it. They go on to say that, uh, they have a sta­ble fin­bar team with aver­age staff tenure of nine plus years and 15 plus years for the exec­u­tive team sup­port­ing con­sis­ten­cy in project deliv­ery, client rela­tion­ships, and cor­po­rate strat­e­gy. [00:56:00] They cer­tain­ly have been con­sis­tent. I’ll say that when you we go through it. The com­pa­ny’s core busi­ness lies in devel­op­ment of medi­um to high den­si­ty res­i­den­tial apart­ments ancil­lary com­mer­cial prop­er­ty, uh, through main­tain­ing deep stake­hold­er engage­ment, includ­ing with Fin Bar’s, rela­tion­ship Builder Han­son Pro­pri­etary Lim­it­ed.

And a core group of con­sul­tants, con­trac­tors, and sup­pli­ers. Fin­bar has cre­at­ed the key com­pet­i­tive advan­tage in an oper­a­tional envi­ron­ment that con­tin­ues to see wider con­struc­tion capac­i­ty con­straints, act­ing as a bar­ri­er to new entrants and sub­sti­tute com­peti­tor activ­i­ty. And I, I’d, uh, wan­na high­light this can’t be overem­pha­sized enough that they’ve con­tained them­selves pret­ty much to Perth. you can see why when you look at the stats. So in 23, 24, which were the most recent stats I found about immi­gra­tion at a city lev­el. Perth pop­u­la­tion increased by 81,360,000 odd. Of those [00:57:00] were from over­seas migra­tion, so that the stats did say that Perth had the biggest increase, I guess, per capi­ta from uh, immi­gra­tion in the avenue, Aus­tralian Cap­i­tal city.

So there’s cer­tain­ly a lot of tail­winds for apart­ments being need­ed in Perth. This com­pa­ny began in 1995 when it list­ed on the ASX as a prop, as a com­pa­ny called Devel­op­ment Com­pa­ny, and it was oper­at­ed out of a two bed­room apart­ment they. Con­vinced com­menced their first devel­op­ment as a prop­er­ty devel­op­ment com­pa­ny, uh, in on the Point, which was their first apart­ment build­ing locat­ed in South Perth. Uh, they’ve con­tin­u­ous­ly grown from there along the way. They did branch out of Perth Kartha in 2010, but that’s the only devi­a­tion I could see. They’ve rode the resource, uh, boom in Perth, includ­ing build­ing Perth’s tallest apart­ment build­ing in 2017. [00:58:00] at that stage, um, it was called Con­cer­to. And then again in 2024 Perth largest, tallest apart­ment build­ing called Civic Heart. Uh, they, they’ve had many mile­stones over the years. They com­plet­ed their first a hun­dred apart­ments 2005, 200 apart­ments in 2009, 3020 12, 5,020 17, 6,020 19 and 7,000 in 2024. And have won many indus­try awards along the way for build­ing prac­tices and excel­lence in the build­ing indus­try. Their results, um, were pret­ty good, and that has kicked the share price up, uh, since uh, the results were released. And, uh, they announced that under­ly­ing NPA was up 16%, rev­enue was up 46%, and they reduced debt from, uh, ooh. They [00:59:00] reduced debt by $360 mil­lion. Um. Down to $56 mil­lion. Uh, they, they’ve announced a five year devel­op­ment pipeline in excess of $1 bil­lion in esti­mat­ed end val­ue. And they have a pros. They’ve announced a pos­i­tive out­look sup­port­ed through chron­ic hous­ing under sup­ply in Perth, improv­ing inter­est rate envi­ron­ment and con­tin­ued ele­va­tor lev­els of Perth migra­tion. A cou­ple of oth­er things that were of note in the results announce­ments. The aver­age dai­ly sales, uh, which was uh, for the peri­od Jan­u­ary to mid-August 2025 0.99 units per day, was 27% high­er than 2024. Um, and since that time, so since, uh, the 1st of June, sales have accel­er­at­ed to just under two units per day, which is twice more than twice the aver­age of uh, uh, the last 12 months. [01:00:00] Uh. And not only have they, are they sell­ing twice as many per day, but they are receiv­ing a high­er aver­age price per unit sold. Um, so the aver­age for year to date is $970,000, is 28% up on the five year aver­age or sell­ing apart­ments in Perth. Um, lat­est, uh, project, river­bank Res­i­dences helped Fin­bar achieve a 30 year record sales month in August with 150 lots sold across the group’s port­fo­lio. so a cou­ple of, a lot of, um, records are being smashed by the com­pa­ny. Uh, and the last one was, that was, it’s the first time in 10 years that Fin­bar has sold out an entire Perth apart­ment project off the plans, in oth­er words, um, before con­struc­tion began. So they, they’re real­ly doing well. Um. Exe­cut­ing prop­er­ly [01:01:00] and to have, um, good rela­tion­ships for the build­ing side of things.

They, they are deliv­er­ing on time when, as we know from pri­or there are a lot of build­ing com­pa­nies going into admin­is­tra­tion in Aus­tralia, but not this one. Uh, we, if I go through the QAV num­bers, Stock Doc­tor has the most recent results loaded, so we can use those. The stock price I’m using is just under 79 cents, 78.80 cents. IV one is 27 cents and no IV two ’cause there’s no con­sen­sus fore­cast that tan­gi­ble assets for this com­pa­ny and net equi­ty per share are both 92 cents the cur­rent share price is just under 79. So we can buy this for less than book val­ue, is good. Uh, the yield is 2.54%. Um, so we can’t score it for the yield, but it is pay­ing a yield, pay­ing a div­i­dend, sor­ry.

Uh, Stock Doc­tor finan­cial health is strong and St. Steady, which is good. Wikipedia have a qual­i­ty rank­ing of [01:02:00] 87, which is good, and an F score of six out of nine, which is also good. they have a val­ue rank­ing of 91, but over­all 74, I think that’s due to their momen­tum rank­ing, which they’ve ranked down. but cer­tain­ly on a val­ue rank­ing and a qual­i­ty rank­ing, the score is good. In stock. Edia Pr/OpCaf is only 1.19 times, so you know, you’re able to this and get your mon­ey back in a lit­tle over a year from cash­flow, which is real­ly good. We don’t have growth fore­cast, so I can’t score it for growth over PE hold 56% of stock, so. Basi­cal­ly there are two share­hold­er group­ings. A com­pa­ny called Hub Hold­ings, which is a Sin­ga­pore list­ed invest­ment com­pa­ny. They hold, uh, quite a bit of stock f uh, no, they hold 25.6% of the stock. And Mr. Ter­rence [01:03:00] pay PEH, he’s the chief Exec­u­tive offi­cer of, uh, Chuan Hu Hold­ings, and he’s on the board and he’s been there for a long time, since 2018. Uh, but the founder, John, one of the founders, John Chan, is the chair still. He holds 12%, um, joined the board back in 2010, his son, Ron Chan, is now the CEO and holds 9%. So they have, um, 19%, oh, sor­ry, 21% between them. Uh, the stock is a recent three point trend lined upturn, so we can score it for that. have con­sis­tent­ly increas­ing equi­ty, which is not real­ly a sur­prise giv­en that prop­er­ty devel­op­ers tend to be fair­ly lumpy in their, uh, in their cash flow. Um, so over­all, I’m giv­ing this a qual­i­ty score of 11 out of 13 or 85% and a QAV score of 0.71. So very high up on the buy list. The, I think the tail­winds for this com­pa­ny are quite strong, and I did [01:04:00] notice that, um, there was Mabb buy­ing by man­age­ment and the board this year, which is a good sign. but cer­tain­ly the tail­winds for the com­pa­ny are that are the strong under­ly­ing Perth migra­tion, um, chron­ic hous­ing under sup­ply. And to give you an exam­ple of that, R‑E-I-W‑A list­ing, so that’s the Real Estate Insti­tute of uh, over 50% low­er now than they were over the last five year aver­age. So not many apart­ments being list­ed. inter­est rates are going down, which is, uh, loos­en­ing, well low­er­ing mort­gage rates and loos­en­ing peo­ple’s abil­i­ty to buy things like apart­ments. Um, the, there’s a cou­ple of gov­ern­ment. Uh, poli­cies, help­ing peo­ple buy apart­ment build­ings, off the plan, stamp duty con­ces­sions, first home buy­er sup­port. Um, there’s a thing called the infra­struc­ture devel­op­ment fund, which is help­ing, there’s a thing called Key Start, which I think might be a WA Pro project, project [01:05:00] or pro­gram. but, but cer­tain­ly a lot of peo­ple are being helped to get into the apart­ment mar­ket, which is sup­port­ing, um, sales for this com­pa­ny. guess on the risk side, a prop­er­ty devel­op­er, so if it does lose some of the rela­tion­ships they have, then they, there’s cer­tain­ly a lot of, um, tight­ness in the labor mar­ket for con­struc­tion in the prop­er­ty sec­tor that may affect them. Prop­er­ty devel­op­ers have risks to, if inter­est rates turn up. Um, cer­tain­ly seen lots of insol­ven­cies across the east­ern seaboard for devel­op­ers. have lumpy devel­op­ment finan­cials, so it has­n’t always been. the share price has­n’t always been going up in the straight line. And if Perth comes off the boil for what­ev­er rea­son, a down­turn in the, in, uh, the min­ing com­pa­ny, uh, min­ing, uh, resource sec­tor, or for what­ev­er oth­er rea­son, um, the apart­ment mar­ket may face a down­turn over there and then will have to [01:06:00] start look­ing else­where to build apart­ments, which is a risk I think, um, if that ever hap­pens.

But to date, it’s, they’re doing well.

Cameron: I’ve got to unmute my mic. We’ll add the fan on. Thank you Tony Fin­bar.

Tony Kynas­ton: And

Cameron: Alright. Yeah, good one Paul. Alright, after hours. Tony, what have you got?

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

a few things. Um. I guess the most top­i­cal one would be Alien Earth. I don’t know if you’ve caught up on that one at all.

Cameron: What you’re gonna tell peo­ple about your skin can­cer oper­a­tion and how they should, uh, go get any, you know, spots checked.

Tony Kynas­ton: I can, I had skin can­cer on my face and my arm cut out last Fri­day and it was a bit more than I thought. So, uh, yeah, I’ve, I dun­no if it’s because I’ve moved back from Cana­da when I was­n’t hav­ing any skin can­cers, but in the last cou­ple of years I’ve had quite a few cut out and, uh, it seems like the process is get­ting, um, [01:07:00] deep­er into my skin. Um, I don’t want to go into the gory details of it, but I’ve got a few stitch­es in my face and my arm because of last, uh, Fri­day’s surgery. Um, um, it’s, it’s fine. I’m not gonna bow no prob­lems. It’s local anes­thet­ics and all that, but, uh, I can’t exer­cise this week. I’ll get the stitch­es out on Fri­day. Um. So it was a bit more of an imped­i­ment than it had been in the past, when gen­er­al­ly in the past it was either a burn off with the liq­uid nitro­gen or you know, do a fair­ly tight almost key­hole type inci­sion and get the, the, uh, offend­ing B, c, C or what­ev­er out. Um, but no, they’ve gone in deep this time. So, um, yeah, has­n’t been all that fun. and I’m a lit­tle bit con­scious of this big scar on my face at the moment, but it, he’s fine

Cameron: No, you don’t want it to heal fine. You want it to have a big man­ly scar and you come up with a good sto­ry for it then too. Attacked by a shark. Rhi­no,

Tony Kynas­ton: said. He, he’s

Cameron: yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: the golf [01:08:00] course.

Cameron: Oh no. I said a good sto­ry. Fight­ing rud­dy is not a good sto­ry, you know?

Tony Kynas­ton: Well being beat­en up by Rod­dy’s, anoth­er good sto­ry. It’s like no one would believe that, would

Cameron: No, exact­ly. No one’s gonna believe that. Look at rud­dy, it’d fall down. Give him a harsh look. Um, okay. Alien Earth. Yeah, I, um, I haven’t wad­ed into those waters yet because the whole alien fran­chise is just not a good place. But it’s a bit like ter­mi­nat­ed films. Best days are well and tru­ly behind them.

Tony Kynas­ton: Well, I think they’re back. I, I think, um,

Cameron: Real­ly. Oh.

Tony Kynas­ton: alien Earth. I think the good part about Alien Earth is it does­n’t real­ly nec­es­sar­i­ly focus on the alien. I mean, it’s part of it, but it’s a lot more about what the earth looks like, uh, in the future. When the, um, uh, one of the comp, so the comp, the Earth is run by five com­pa­nies and they com­pete against each oth­er. a bit of an alle­go­ry for how things sit with the Mag sev­en at the moment. and, uh, one of the com­pa­nies. [01:09:00] Brings the alien embryo back to earth and, uh, one of the crew mem­bers on the ship is paid for by one of the com­pet­ing com­pa­nies to try and sab­o­tage that. And they do, they’ve meant to land the space­ship in the what­ev­er city, com­pa­ny B, the Way­land Cor­po­ra­tion or Teal?

Uh, no, Way­land, I think it is since, because they, yeah. Way­land.

Cameron: Ter­rell is Blade Run­ner.

Tony Kynas­ton: run­ning. Yeah. So Whale in New Tony, I’ve for­got­ten all the names. There’s five dif­fer­ent com­pa­ny names in this. the ship, uh, crash lands into an apart­ment build­ing. and of course the embryos escape. It’s the, the inter­est­ing thing is it’s not just about the Audi and crea­ture.

There are oth­er crea­tures brought back. So it’s, um, there’s a few oth­er to watch out for, but that’s prob­a­bly only about 20% of the series. The rest of it’s about syn­thet­ic humans and, um, cyborgs and, uh, the con­trol, the com­pa­nies and what that all means and how they com­pete. [01:10:00] So it’s, I found it fas­ci­nat­ing from that point of view. Um,

Cameron: does it fit in the, where does it fit in the time­line?

Tony Kynas­ton: I’ve got no idea. Or it’s, it’s, um, it would be, yeah, dun­no.

Cameron: Hmm. Obvi­ous­ly post the 79 film. Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah. And prob­a­bly post aliens too as well. ’cause uh, that, that, you know, was also about the cor­po­ra­tion try­ing to bring a bio weapon back to Earth.

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: since then,

Cameron: Yeah. Alright. It’s on, uh, what Dis­ney Max?

Tony Kynas­ton: Dis­ney or Apple, I’m not sure.

Cameron: Um, I think it’s on one of the ones I’ve got. I don’t have apples, so it must have been one of the oth­er ones.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah. Any­way. That’s good. Um,

Cameron: I,

Tony Kynas­ton: been going through SBS still lov­ing all the old movies they’ve now got to. Um, and, uh, have you seen Laou [01:11:00] Dele, Jean ADEs film?

Cameron: no, but I was watch­ing his, um, uh, what’s his big one? Uh, the, the, the, the breath­less. Oh, that’s what, it’s what’s, I’ve nev­er heard that oth­er name for it. Oh, real­ly? That’s breath­less. Yeah. I’m, I was watch­ing it. I’ve, I haven’t seen it since the, you know, the ear­ly nineties when I was in my tw ear­ly twen­ties and got into, you know, start­ed get­ting into clas­sic French film.

Yeah, no, I was watch­ing it the oth­er night. I did­n’t fin­ish it, but I’m like halfway, two thirds of the way through it. Um, lov­ing it. Absolute­ly lov­ing it.

Tony Kynas­ton: Just how rev­o­lu­tion­ary it is. I mean, it’s a, the

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: shot. Um, see­ing a young Jean Paul Del­mon­do is fan­tas­tic. ’cause most of my mem­o­ries of him is a, like 20 years lat­er

Cameron: Yeah,

Tony Kynas­ton: of French cin­e­ma in the sev­en­ties. Yeah.

Cameron: just the thing that I remem­bered, the only thing real­ly I remem­bered of it from when I first saw it in my ear­ly twen­ties was just that stac­ca­to [01:12:00] edit­ing, the real­ly chop­py edit­ing of bam bam. And it’s mov­ing real­ly quick­ly and the, the, the scenes are all over the place. It’s real­ly fre­net­ic, fast-paced edit­ing, which, um, did­n’t seem as crazy this time watch­ing it as I remem­ber feel­ing about it in my ear­ly twen­ties, but still obvi­ous­ly there.

And, uh, very fresh.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah. And I remem­ber going back and watch­ing it when the remake with Richard Gere and p Adoa came out us which was good.

Cameron: I nev­er saw that.

Tony Kynas­ton: which I, I think I read the review. I, I saw and loved Bad­lands,

Cameron: Mar­tin Sheen,

Tony Kynas­ton: ear­ly ones. Yep. And Sis­sy’s

Cameron: sis­sy SpaceX. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: after I saw that, a review of that referred me to Bout­ta Sole say­ing sort of theme of, you know, young man um, going off the rails, com­mit­ting a crime, going on the run. And so I went and watched Breath­less back then and I’m real­ly enjoy­ing it this time [01:13:00] around. I don’t remem­ber much of it the first scene, but it must have been so shock­ing in 59 or out to see this kind of, you know, amoral man killing a cop, going on the run with a car, hot wiring a car, com­ing back to Paris to get his girl­friend, find­ing her with some­one else, you know, just this kin­da wild ride steal­ing mon­ey from oth­er girls

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: they, it must’ve been so shock­ing to Cin­ema­go­ers, who would’ve been used to singing in the rain and sound of music and all that kind of

Cameron: They’d had Jim­my Cagney and the orig­i­nal Scar­face film and Bog­a­rt films. I mean, crim­i­nals on screen now. Capone and those sorts of things weren’t new, but I, the, I think the, the di Yeah, it’s cool. It’s kind of like a Taran­ti­no esque, which is why Taran­ti­no names his pro­duc­tion com­pa­ny, A band apart after anoth­er one of his films.

Um, Taran­ti­no’s a big fan, right? But so yeah, they’re [01:14:00] cool. He’s the cool crim­i­nal. Looks cool. Acts cool. Yeah. The whole thing. Yeah,

Tony Kynas­ton: chain smok­ing unfil­tered cig­a­rettes.

Cameron: yeah. Good look­ing. Yeah, good look­ing. Where­as wears a suit, like a, a mod­el and just, uh, he is like a young, I don’t know, Clooney, Brad Pitt sort of some­thing wan­ing about pret­ty girls.

Just, yeah. Oh good. Yeah. Yeah, I stum­bled across that. So I also, I’m halfway through watch­ing Mega­lopo­lis.

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, real­ly? What is that avail­able?

Cameron: Um, well it’s on Moy, but I don’t have Moy and so Hunter said, gave me like an ille­gal stream­ing site, so that’s what that where he watch­es stuff that’s not avail­able on the oth­er stream­ing sites.

Some about 45 min­utes into the three and a half hours or what­ev­er that is. You watched it, right? I think you saw it. Oh, you haven’t seen it? I know Alex saw it and did­n’t mind [01:15:00] it. She said she laughed.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: Um, I am, I’m enjoy­ing it, but it’s def­i­nite­ly weird. But, but because it’s basi­cal­ly a some­what retelling of 60 BCE in Rome.

You know, the main char­ac­ters, uh, Jean Car­lo Espos­i­to plays Cicero. Adam Dri­ver plays Cae­sar Catali­na, which is a com­bi­na­tion of Cae­sar and Lina. Um, the Ari­an con­spir­a­cy for those peo­ple that know their Roman his­to­ry. Um, so there’s, you know, it’s a bit of telling of this pow­er strug­gle in Rome, although it’s very, very loose ref­er­ence to that.

It’s set in like the New Rome of Man­hat­tan. And, um, John Voit, uh, Aubrey Plaza, um, who’s the young guy who was, [01:16:00] um, in the, uh, Indi­ana Jones film as Indie’s son. Can’t remem­ber his name.

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, um, yeah, I’ve for­got­ten two. Is it Tom Hold? Was that, I’m not sure.

Cameron: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It’s, uh, she Lebo.

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, Going

Cameron: Fish­burn is in it. Lar­ry Fish­burn sort of does the nar­ra­tion of it too. Jason Schwartz­man huge cast. Um, and yeah, I mean, I’m enjoy­ing the actors and like the char­ac­ters are kind of crazy, but, uh, it’s, but there’s also, there’s this like, real­ly, I’m assum­ing delib­er­ate­ly bad blue screens and green screens in it.

Like it’s got a very fake, uh, feel to the blue screens and the back­drops are all a lit­tle bit, um. Thir­ties art decoy style kind of thing to it. [01:17:00] Arty, you know, it’s cop­pler try­ing to be arty, telling a polit­i­cal futur­is­ti­cy dra­ma kind of thing. Any­way, so I’m about near­ly an hour into a third of the way through it and not hat­ing it, but I can see why peo­ple would strug­gle with it ’cause it’s over the top and weird.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Okay. I’ve seen a cou­ple of clips on, on Face­book reels, and I’m not a fan of Adam Dri­ver, and he looks like he’s got a fun­ny Roman hair­cut in it, and yeah, I’m not sure I’ll watch it.

Cameron: Adam dri­ver’s just doing Adam dri­ver, like he’s broody,

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah,

Cameron: the way through it so far. Um,

Tony Kynas­ton: I’m

Cameron: yeah. Wow. Brood­ing you say would­n’t. Yeah. Okay. Any­way, that’s all I’ve got. I’ve just been obs.

Tony Kynas­ton: which is a bad trait for an actor

Cameron: Okay. Um, apart from that, I’ve just been obsessed with Shostakovich’s sev­enth Sym­pho­ny again this week, just

Tony Kynas­ton: I lis­tened

Cameron: [01:18:00] in

Tony Kynas­ton: I, I thought it was okay. uh, did­n’t, no, I thought it was good, but, um, it one lis­ten. I thought, okay. That’s all right. I was sur­prised ’cause my, I think pri­or lis­ten­ing to Shas­takovich was fair­ly aton­al and this was very, almost, com­mer­cial. I thought it was very pop­py. Um, had a very strong melody,

Cameron: Yeah, well look, a lot of his ear­ly stuff when he was in his ear­ly twen­ties, um, was not aton­al, but very exper­i­men­tal. His sym­phonies are less so, and his string quar­tets and his piano con­cer­tos a lot of, I mean, exper­i­men­tal, but fol­low­ing the tra­di­tion­al struc­ture of a Beethoven or a, or a Mar­la or some­thing like that, but also takes it in a dif­fer­ent direc­tion like he was try­ing to do stuff with it.

But yeah, like the open­ing motif for the first move­ment of the sev­enth, [01:19:00] like.

Tony Kynas­ton: It’s like jazz hands shall we? Sound­ed very Broad­way to me,

Cameron: Broad­way. Wow. Okay. But the, like, the his­to­ry of that, as I told you last week, like it was a big deal at the time because it was hap­pen­ing dur­ing the attack on that, and it was huge­ly pop­u­lar around the west until the war was over. And then it basi­cal­ly got for­got­ten because we were in the Cold War and you weren’t allowed to lis­ten to Kovich who was a Sovi­et com­pos­er, still liv­ing in Leningrad and sup­pos­ed­ly being a good com­mu­nist.

Uh, even though after he died, every­one learned that he real­ly did it through grid­ded teeth and that he hat­ed the com­mu­nists and he hat­ed the Com­mu­nist Par­ty in Stal­in and Khrushchev. And then all of a sud­den it was accept­able in the West. But there is some great footage on YouTube of Lenny [01:20:00] Bern­stein going to Moscow in 1959 as part of a cul­tur­al exchange pro­gram where he.

Plays the first move­ment of the sev­enth. And, uh, Shas­takovich is in the audi­ence, and Lenny thanks him. And then Shas­takovich looks real­ly uncom­fort­able. He’s like sit­ting halfway back in the audi­ence and he, some­body next to him is prod­ding him and he gets up and he sort of does a wave and then he sits back down and they’re still applaud­ing.

The audi­ence is applaud­ing and even­tu­al­ly he’s sort of forced to get up and very, ’cause he is, he was very intro­vert­ed, very shy. He walks up to the front and he shakes Bern­stein’s hand and shakes the first vio­lin, the sand, and then gets back to his seat. But he is prob­a­bly think­ing, oh God, now they’re gonna, now they’re gonna throw me in a gulag now for being too friend­ly with this, uh, gay west­ern, you know, con­duc­tor.

Um, but yeah, like he, he was bern­stein admired him when it was very unpop­u­lar to

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: [01:21:00] acknowl­edge shush kovich in the west, uh, in those years of the Cold War. But Pop­py, there you go.

Tony Kynas­ton: it was good.

Cameron: Lis­ten to it a hun­dred more times. And then tell me what you think, Tony. You have to stick. No, it’ll help your heal­ing process.

Tony Kynas­ton: My sp speak­ing avant-garde com­posers. Have you heard, uh, Philip Glass’s low, his

Cameron: Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: week, which was fan­tas­tic. Love it.

Cameron: Well, some­body, did I tell you about my friend who did the Bri­an Eno course? The Bri­an Eno Mas­ter­class? Uh, one of Fox’s friend’s par­ents. Um. Did it’s, it did like this Bri­an Eno mas­ter­class course a few months ago. Like you get to spend, I don’t know, like an hour or a cou­ple of hours on a Sun­day for over a peri­od of time with Eno, like a live chat room thing.

Um, where he teach­es you how to, how he does art, [01:22:00] how he thinks about music, how he com­pos­es and goes through the, um, oblique strate­gies, cards and his whole process. So this guy, and you get record­ings of it all. So he, he just down­loaded the whole thing into a direc­to­ry for me and he goes, here you go. He is got like 10 hours of mas­ter­class with Bri­an Eno, which I haven’t even cracked open yet.

I haven’t even down­loaded yet. ’cause you know, I was too busy cod­ing audit scans and buy­back scans. But, um, uh, I would love to think that I would have the time at some point to get into that. ’cause I do love the stuff that Eno’s, I just love Eno’s. You know, artis­tic con­tri­bu­tion to rock music in the last 50 years, if noth­ing else, right?

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah. Roxy Music and U2 and Bowie. Yeah.

Cameron: Yeah, yeah,

Tony Kynas­ton: Bring on the Warm Jets. Fan­tas­tic album.

Cameron: yeah. Not to men­tion every­one else, I think like, yeah, I can, the list of artists that he [01:23:00] con­tributed to is, is long, but I know I’m prob­a­bly not gonna have time to do it ’cause I don’t have time to do shit. Um,

Tony Kynas­ton: Kung fu.

Cameron: well that’s, that goes with­out say­ing

Tony Kynas­ton: Class and crack open.

Cameron: He knows not of what he speaks. My Lord, for­give him. Don’t make me show you my abs again, Con­is­ton. I’ll show you why I do kung fu.

Tony Kynas­ton: it’s the last thing from my mind to make you show me your

Cameron: Oh, come on. I’ve had to look at your scar. You look at my abs. That’s how we, that’s the trade off. Alright, well I wan­na go talk about methanol, which is the, uh, pulled pork for the US show that we have to go do. So let’s go talk about methanol. Thank you, Tony. Have a good week. Thanks every­body for the ques­tions and the sug­ges­tions.

Have a good one.

Bernard: Q A V is a check­list-based sys­tem of val­ue invest­ing devel­oped by Tony Khigh­ne­ston over 25 years. To learn more [01:24:00] about how it works and how you can learn the sys­tem, vis­it our web­site, Q A V Pod­cast dot com dot A U.

This pod­cast is an infor­ma­tion provider and in giv­ing you prod­uct infor­ma­tion we are not mak­ing any sug­ges­tion or rec­om­men­da­tion about a par­tic­u­lar prod­uct. The infor­ma­tion has been pre­pared with­out tak­ing into account your indi­vid­ual invest­ment objec­tives, finan­cial cir­cum­stances or needs. Before you decide whether or not to acquire a par­tic­u­lar finan­cial prod­uct you should assess whether it is appro­pri­ate for you in the light of your own per­son­al cir­cum­stances, hav­ing regard to your own objec­tives, finan­cial sit­u­a­tion and needs. You may wish to obtain finan­cial advice from a suit­ably qual­i­fied advis­er before mak­ing any deci­sion to acquire a finan­cial prod­uct. Please note that all infor­ma­tion about per­for­mance returns is his­tor­i­cal. Past per­for­mance should not be relied upon as an indi­ca­tor of future per­for­mance; unit prices and the [01:25:00] val­ue of your invest­ment may fall as well as rise. The results are gen­er­al advice only and not per­son­al prod­uct advice.

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Quote of the day:

“The code we now write no longer dic­tates the choic­es and deci­sions our [01:26:00] machines make; the data we feed them does.” “Scary Smart”, Mo Gaw­dat