Join Tony and Cameron in episode 723 of QAV as they discuss Vulcan level emotional detachment in investing, recent market movements, and a pulled pork on PRN.

00:00 Welcome Back to QAV Episode 723
02:36 Tony’s Vulcan Detachment
04:30 Fudging ASG
14:39 Pulled Pork on Perenti Mining (PRN)

Transcription

QAV 723 Club

[00:00:00] Tony: 3, 2, 1.

[00:00:06] Cameron: Welcome back to episode 723 of QAV, K to the T. How you doing?

[00:00:15] Tony: Yeah,

[00:00:15] Tony: good,

[00:00:15] Tony: thank

[00:00:16] Cameron: How do you like my hat?

[00:00:17] Tony: A to the T. Joe’s Real Barbecue.

[00:00:20] Tony: Okay.

[00:00:20] Cameron: Chrissy, what she brought me back from

[00:00:23] Tony: Ah.

[00:00:24] Cameron: We actually went there and ate there last time we were there a couple of years ago. Great barbecue joint in, I think in Gilbert

[00:00:31] Cameron: in Phoenix. Um, yeah, like one of these great sort of American barbecue places. That’s like

[00:00:38] Tony: did you have the

[00:00:39] Tony: ribs?

[00:00:39] Cameron: Uh, I can’t remember what I had, but I know it was great.

[00:00:42] Cameron: I think I did have ribs actually, but it was just great. Oh, we had a lot, just a, just a plate full of barbecued meat. It was fantastic. So anyway.

[00:00:50] Tony: yeah good. And it’s a truckers cap too, not a golfing cap or a

[00:00:54] Cameron: Yeah, truck is cat, cause That’s how we roll. Smells like freedom, Tony. Smells like freedom.

[00:01:05] Tony: Oh, Donald Trump doesn’t smell like freedom at the moment.

[00:01:07] Cameron: He’s still free. He’s still free

[00:01:10] Cameron: I was reading up on the Hunter Biden lawsuit that’s happening at the moment. Wouldn’t it be great if they shared a

[00:01:16] Tony: Which one? Yeah!

[00:01:18] Cameron: Oh, the, uh, the guns one I think is going on, not the tax one, the guns one. Yeah, I just think the two of them sharing a cell, that, now there’s a sitcom waiting to happen, right?

[00:01:29] Tony: Yeah. So, uh, Taylor should pitch that to Warner

[00:01:33] Cameron: Yeah, you should. Yeah, yeah, my son Taylor. How’s your week been, TK? You’re back in sunny Sydney.

[00:01:41] Tony: Back in sunny Sydney. Yeah, it’s been a good week actually, traveling down the East Coast. I stayed in Coffs Harbour, stayed in Taree, uh, played a lot of golf and, um, went to Magenta Shores, which is the entrance, uh, on the last day and played golf there. It’s been good. It’s been a nice, nice relaxing break away from Sydney, away from a house not selling and all of those distractions.

[00:02:06] Cameron: Uh, yeah. I was, I was, I’ve been watching Curb Your Enthusiasm and I was, uh, again, old episodes and I saw an episode, like, from the very first season, like 20 years ago, and somebody was saying that they were trying to buy Larry’s old house and they said, how long has it been on the market? And he said, oh, about a year.

[00:02:25] Cameron: And I was like, well, there you go. It’s like, you’re living in LA. It’s like,

[00:02:30] Tony: Yeah,

[00:02:31] Cameron: at least

[00:02:32] Tony: yeah, it could be, could be, we’ll see. Is

[00:02:36] Cameron: a new member, new QAV club member, Glen emailed me over the weekend, said he’s been listening since the beginning. But just signed up to QAV club, uh, don’t know what took him so long, but he said, uh, he loved the in depth analysis and Vulcan level of emotional detachment, which he said suited him to a T.

[00:02:57] Cameron: Now, I, I,

[00:02:58] Tony: that you? You or me?

[00:03:00] Cameron: I think we know which one of us is the Vulcan. Um, heh,

[00:03:05] Cameron: heh, heh, heh. I went and looked at a bunch of Spock, uh, clips to try and find a good one to add to my playlist for you, but I couldn’t find anything suitable. But, um,

[00:03:15] Tony: The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one.

[00:03:19] Cameron: yeah, okay. Is that why you do this podcast? It’s, you know, you’re thinking about the

[00:03:22] Cameron: needs of the many. That’s your

[00:03:23] Tony: Yeah.

[00:03:26] Cameron: Um,

[00:03:27] Tony: Not just you and I.

[00:03:29] Cameron: So, um, Vulcanology, I decided is the, uh, title for this episode.

[00:03:36] Tony: Well, Spock has always been my favorite

[00:03:39] Tony: movie

[00:03:39] Cameron: No kidding.

[00:03:41] Tony: Yeah, I’ve always loved Spock. Live long and prosper.

[00:03:48] Cameron: You have, you, what’s the line at the end? You have always have been

[00:03:54] Tony: Yes, you were and you always have been my greatest friend.

[00:03:57] Cameron: friend. Shed a tear when I saw that the first time. It’s a pretty good episode. Pretty, pretty touching scene for Star Trek. Uh, well, thank you, Glenn. Uh, yes, the Vulcan level of emotional detachment. We’ve talked about that a lot, um, in our episodes recently. And, uh, I, I want to test your Vulcan level of, um, Emotional detachment this week.

[00:04:23] Tony: Okay, you’re gonna trigger me, are you? Well,

[00:04:30] Cameron: ASG, Autosports Group, they went ex div, I think on the 16th of May, the share price plummeted accordingly. It was a good dividend too, it was like 10 cents, fully franked. They had, their payment date was the 31st of May and the share price didn’t recover. It slid a little bit yesterday, broke through its 3PTL.

[00:04:52] Cameron: Well, as we factored back the dividend out of it, it was still below the 3PTL. Um, it was only a couple of cents below. I think the 3PTL is about, um, 3. 21, 2. 21. Sorry. And it fell down to about 2. 18 yesterday. And then I was, I hold it in a bunch of different portfolios. Like I’ve got one, I’ve got six parcels of it in various things.

[00:05:18] Cameron: And I went and had a look at its history. of going ex div every six months and it follows the same pattern every time. Drops substantially, the value of the dividend and a little bit more has that post dividend sort of stupor. Then it recovers, usually within a month or so, it recovers, goes to an all new high, Then it goes ex div, slides again, waits a bit, recovers, goes up.

[00:05:47] Cameron: So, I know rules is rules, but I was like, really? Like, I can see it on the graph. I know what happens. So, two questions. So, I didn’t sell it yesterday. My excuse was I was going to talk to you about it. It went back up to 2. 20 about an hour ago, but it has slid down to 2. 19. So, it’s nearly back up above the 3PTL. Um, but the two questions were, like, when we know that this happens with a stock like this, we can see it historically. I know we can’t predict the future, but should we sell it, or should I just give it a little bit of leeway? And B, should we be selling it the day before it goes ex div in the future? I know we’ve talked about these sorts of situations a couple of times in the past, but when you know that these stocks do this, should we be selling it the day before it goes ex div and then buying it back a week later?

[00:06:46] Tony: make the same money, don’t you? Because you get paid a dividend on the share price. Drops to reflect that.

[00:06:52] Cameron: Yeah.

[00:06:52] Tony: Yeah. Um, and if you sell it beforehand, you’re paying CGT on the gains and then buying it back in. So I’d prefer to take the dividend myself. Um, but I agree. I think it’s a fudge. It’s, it’s just fallen slightly below the three point trend line.

[00:07:05] Tony: Um, it’s probably going to recover because it’s clearly been dropping because of the, Because of the dividend being paid, or going ex dividend, and then hasn’t quite recovered, um, the day after payment. But there’s no hard and fast rule that says it has to recover the day after payment, so I give it some leeway.

[00:07:22] Cameron: Vulcan fudge. It’s like,

[00:07:24] Tony: The Vulcan Fudge, yes.

[00:07:27] Cameron: We’re doing Vulcan hand signals here on the camera. It’s like, it’s like an F, like a Vulcan

[00:07:32] Tony: Ah, right, yeah, okay.

[00:07:34] Cameron: down. There you go. The Vulcan fudge. All right. I like that. The Vulcan fudge. Maybe I’ll change. I’ll change the title of the episode to the Vulcan fudge. Well, I’m glad you

[00:07:46] Tony: Well, that was a really good, yeah, thanks for the feedback. Um, was it

[00:07:49] Cameron: Glenn.

[00:07:50] Tony: Glenn? Glenn, thanks for the feedback Glenn, glad you signed up and And found it useful over the last five years. But in the notes, when you sent me that, I underlined the word emotional detachment words, emotional detachment, because that’s, that’s such a key part of investing really is, you know, if you, I know we say this a lot, but a lot of the things that can give you a bump steer in investing are around behavioral. You know, evolutionary dead ends in our, in the way that we behave psychologically. And the only way to guard against that is to have a system and a process and a framework, and that gives you emotional detachment. So it’s so important, whether it’s QAV or whether it’s some other way of investing, um, you’ve got to have that.

[00:08:36] Cameron: It’s also one of the great Rolling Stone songs from the early 80s. I’ll be your savior, steadfast and true, come to your emotional detachment. Doesn’t really rhyme, but the idea was there. Mick knew what he was

[00:08:51] Cameron: doing.

[00:08:52] Tony: Was, was Michael Jackson singing for the Rolling Stones back then?

[00:08:55] Tony: Was

[00:08:55] Tony: he?

[00:08:55] Cameron: He ripped off Mick. Speaking of people he ripped off, um, this is in After Hours, I’ll talk more about it, but I just watched the Blues Brothers again. over the weekend. First time I’ve seen it in years and damn it holds up man. It is such a, such a ridiculous feel good film. But just watching Cab Calloway and watching James and you go like there’s Michael Jackson right there, you know.

[00:09:22] Cameron: It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, Cab Calloway comes out at the end in his white tails and does the spinning on the spot thing that Michael did. And I think Cab Calloway came up with a version of the moonwalk too. I think I saw a video of that not that long ago, back in the, you know, 30s or 40s, whenever he was doing his thing in his

[00:09:41] Tony: And so I saw a video recently too, someone did that, you know, when Michael Jackson glued his shoes to the floors and then would lean way forward. That was done by someone back in the 30s and 40s

[00:09:50] Tony: first too.

[00:09:51] Cameron: Yeah. Didn’t glue it. I think he was a nail. Yeah.

[00:09:54] Tony: Yeah. Okay.

[00:09:56] Cameron: Um, but I was also, I was thinking, um, what a great record of, you know, uh, Cab Calloway, James Brown, Aretha Franklin, John Lee Hooker, et cetera, and that they captured. But then of course, Belushi died before all of them. Belushi died like two years after they made that,

[00:10:14] Tony: mm

[00:10:15] Cameron: and what a great, what a great testament to his talent too.

[00:10:19] Cameron: But I think that it’s Ackroyd. And I think John Landis directed it. There’s, there’s probably like more important and even a better film than Ghostbusters. I think even though Ghostbusters is probably the more famous, I think Blues Brothers is just such a, anyway, it’s after hours. Feel good film.

[00:10:35] Tony: yeah, it was, and um, it was, I saw a documentary, I think, or some clips anyway on YouTube about, um, about how they came to do it from the, the first sketch at Saturday Night Live and how they put the band together and how they toured a lot. And it was, um, it was. Booker T and the MGs were basically the backing band, Steve,

[00:10:56] Cameron: Wow.

[00:10:57] Tony: Steve, uh, Steve Cropper and Donald Luck Dunn.

[00:11:00] Tony: And that made me go back and look at Green Onions, one of my favourite songs, again.

[00:11:04] Tony: Yeah. And you can see the very early Steve Cropper

[00:11:08] Tony: and Donald

[00:11:08] Tony: Luck

[00:11:08] Cameron: Oh, there’s a clip. Oh yeah. Like

[00:11:10] Tony: Oh yeah.

[00:11:11] Cameron: or something.

[00:11:12] Tony: Yeah. It’s really, it’s so

[00:11:14] Tony: cool.

[00:11:14] Cameron: Oh, that’s, and that’s what I said to Chrissy at the end of it. That’s one of the things that I think is so great about the film too, is like, it’s the real guys, a real band playing real music, like real musicians backing them, which you don’t often see in those sorts of films.

[00:11:28] Cameron: Biopics

[00:11:29] Cameron: and that

[00:11:29] Tony: came out before the movie, Briefcase Full of Blues. That

[00:11:32] Tony: was

[00:11:32] Tony: fantastic.

[00:11:33] Cameron: I listen to that a lot. It’s so great. Just, and Belushi’s voice was, he was so great. He could really knock those tunes out anyway. And John Candy’s cameo, and uh, Steven Spielberg’s cameo. Oh, Carrie, just that scene when he drops her

[00:11:49] Tony: really drops up, hmm,

[00:11:54] Cameron: And he just drops her in the mud. Let’s go. Oh, so good. Anyway, TK, that’s all the news I’ve got. The market’s been up and down. Portfolio’s doing what it does. Um, I got nothing else really news wise to talk about. Do you got anything before we get into some questions?

[00:12:17] Tony: I did but I’ve forgotten it, looking at my notes here and I’ve got pages and pages of scribble and I can’t find it, um, oh yes that’s right I found it, so just, just for interest sake and not amusing, uh, I was listening to the Stock Doctor. Um, weekly video that Kien does and, uh, comes out on a Friday and they were talking about earnings per share forecasts and how that can correlate with, uh, stock prices.

[00:12:45] Tony: And if you are a Stock Doctor subscriber, you can go into the graph on the front page and there’s one of the drop down options is to do EPS revisions or EPS forecast changes, um, which will then give you a graph across the bottom of the screen. Which shows how the EPS has moved, or how the EPS forecast has moved.

[00:13:05] Tony: And yeah, there is a bit of a correlation there. So it’s something I’m going to look at further and see if that can be of any use to us. But it does seem to be driving share price sentiment a fair

[00:13:14] Tony: bit.

[00:13:14] Cameron: And how would we use that in theory? Would that be something we would score on if it’s had a

[00:13:20] Tony: Yeah.

[00:13:21] Cameron: forecast

[00:13:21] Tony: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s my thinking. I don’t, I haven’t worked out exactly how we would score it. Um, whether it’s got to have a recent one or whether it’s got to be trending up or not trending down, for example. Um, You know, the, maybe the better position is the stock price is trending down, but the earnings upgrades are trending up.

[00:13:42] Tony: That would be a good time to buy something. So I’ve just got to do the research on that, but anyway, worth investigating. And, um, if anyone wants to have a look at it and give us their thoughts, that’d be great.

[00:13:52] Cameron: Speaking of Stock Doctor, I haven’t noticed the data integrity issues for the last week or two. So hopefully they’ve nailed all those down. Tony did send a letter to Tim Lincoln, an email, a letter.

[00:14:06] Tony: Yeah. Licked a stamp.

[00:14:09] Cameron: Had his wax seal on it, had it delivered by courier.

[00:14:15] Tony: Mercury, the god of, wing, wing the wing messenger.

[00:14:20] Cameron: Tony did send Tim an email and Tim told Tony he would, uh, look into it. So, um, it looks like he did that. So thank you, Tim. I know you, I know you tune in every week. So thank you for taking care of that for us. What else you got, TK? Mm

[00:14:36] Tony: Uh, that’s it, I’ve got a pulled pork to do. So my pulled pork this week is on Perenti. which is a mining contractor, and I actually did a pulled pork on them back in October 23. Uh, and that was when they were just about to acquire a company called DDH1, which is a drilling company. I think the DD and DDH was for diamond drilling.

[00:15:00] Tony: Uh, and both companies were on our buy list back then. Um, DDH also had, uh, Previously acquired Ozdrill and I think SWIC, which were also on our buy list in the past, so it’s been a bit of a roll up in the mining drilling space. But I thought I’d go back and re look at Perenti now that we’ve got some figures since they acquired DDH and just see how it all worked out.

[00:15:24] Tony: So, uh, just a quick recap on Perenti, founded in Kalgoorlie in 1987, headquartered in Perth, but they operate globally in 13 countries. They provide contract mining services, equipment rental and servicing to the mining sector, mining tech, so mining technology, drilling services, And they have approximately 11, 000 employees around the world.

[00:15:53] Tony: So that’s, that’s Perenti. I guess people can hear more about them if they go back to October and listen to us then when I did a pulled pork. Uh, so the first half results have come out and they only include I think maybe not quite three months of DDH in them, but they seem to be quite, uh, quite positive.

[00:16:15] Tony: Um, they’re certainly better than they were the half before, and they’ve upgraded their guidance, talking about EPS guidances. Um, so just for some sort of context, prior to the takeover of DDH, Perenti’s market cap was about 870 million, DDH was about 330 million, and that’s about the price that Perenti paid, um, so the idea was that they were going to, that Perenti was going to bulk up its drilling division, which it has, um, and I guess the, one of the things that DDH has also brought is the ability to drill down deep, so they can, their drilling rigs can go as low as 3, 000 metres, which is, you know, quite a significant amount to go down into the earth.

[00:17:04] Tony: Um,

[00:17:06] Cameron: Isn’t that where the Morlocks

[00:17:07] Tony: first half, yeah,

[00:17:10] Cameron: Wow. They gotta be, they gotta, they gotta be very careful about upsetting the Morlock, uh, civilization.

[00:17:17] Tony: Right.

[00:17:18] Cameron: That’s a crazy, that’s crazy deep.

[00:17:22] Tony: It is, I know, three

[00:17:23] Tony: kilometers.

[00:17:23] Cameron: And you’re like,

[00:17:24] Tony: It

[00:17:24] Tony: is.

[00:17:25] Cameron: going through the crust of the earth, getting down into like,

[00:17:30] Tony: ooh, where the dinosaurs were. Yeah.

[00:17:33] Cameron: that is crazy. Oh my god,

[00:17:34] Tony: It is.

[00:17:35] Cameron: they could go down that deep.

[00:17:37] Tony: Yeah, it’s incredible, isn’t it? Yeah, anyway, so, um, the DDH acquisition has already started to improve the results. So, uh, looks like the acquisition happened on the 6th of October, 23. But, um, for the half, revenue was up 13%. Net profit up 20%, um, and they’ve reduced some of their debt, which has been good.

[00:18:00] Tony: Um, Perenti reported that, um, the net assets, Uh, we’re greater than the purchase price when they bought DDH, so they’ve actually reported an underlying gain of 29. 4 million on the deal. In other words, they bought, um, the DDH assets for less than book, which is something that we, we would have been attracted to when DDH was on the, the buy list.

[00:18:22] Tony: Uh, Perenti’s Gave a bit of an update on the acquisition and they report that DDH employee turnover is stable and there’s been no loss of key management personnel, um, during the half. So it seems to be Going well and being integrated nicely. Uh, Perenti report 5 million of synergies, um, and reaffirmed their target of 22 million in synergy.

[00:18:47] Tony: So it’s, it seems to be working for them. Um, they, DDH, uh, improved their growth outlook and Stock Doctor report, uh, forecast revenue growth of 18 percent next year for Perenti and net net profit growth of 82 percent and earnings per share growth of 40%. 8%. So it seems like the, the acquisition is working well for Perenti.

[00:19:14] Tony: And I just thought I’d visit the numbers because PRN is just now back on the buy list, uh, having been off since about the time that we, um, we did, I did the last pulled pork. So I’m using a stock price of 1. 50. 1 really, 1. 005. It’s less than consensus target. IV1 for this company now is 0. 72. IV2 is 1. 81.

[00:19:35] Tony: So it’s less than IV2. Um, this is a large ADT company, especially now after the acquisition. So ADT is 1. 6 million. Uh, we don’t score it for yield. The yield is only 1. 99%, but that’s fine. Uh, Stock Doctor financial health is strong and the trend is steady. So it scores for those. And PE is low, but not quite the lowest.

[00:20:01] Tony: So PE is just over seven, um, which is all but one, um, the lowest in the last three years, but we don’t score it for that. Um, the exciting thing about this company is PropCaf is 2. 33 times, so we can buy it for, you know, a very quick payback, um, using its operating cash flow. Uh, I suspect I’ll use that cash flow either to fund more acquisitions, but also likely to pay down debt.

[00:20:27] Tony: Neps for this company is 1. 35, so we, you know, the share price of a dollar, we’re buying it for, um, much less than its net equity per share. I do highlight that Net Tangible Assets is 1. 19, so there’s some goodwill somewhere in that equity, um, but we’re still buying it for less than NTA as well, so it’s good on both counts.

[00:20:48] Tony: Uh, so it scores for that. Scores for obviously for net equity per share plus 30%, which is 1. 75. So we’re well below that with the share price. Uh, it’s scoring for growth over PE, which is 4. 56 times. Um, so those growth, uh, forecasts, uh, and low PE are helping that. Our hurdle is 1. 5, so it massively outperforms there.

[00:21:10] Tony: Um, there’s no owner founder. Directors hold about 3 percent of the company, but, um, We don’t score it for that. Uh, it is back to being a three point trendline upturn, so it scores for that. And it’s consistently increasing equity, as we went back and re looked at, is scoring for that. So, overall, the quality score is 13 out of 16, or 81%, and the QAV score is 0.

[00:21:36] Tony: 35. So, This is a large ADT company. It’s come on the buy list this week and it’s near the top and it’s been around for a while. People may continue to own it, but it seems like, uh, the DDH acquisitions going well for it. And, um, I think that’s primed it for growth was my note on that.

[00:21:55] Cameron: Yes, well, the last time you did a pulled pork on it, the share price,

[00:22:00] Tony: No, don’t, don’t mention. It’s come good.

[00:22:04] Cameron: it’s come

[00:22:04] Tony: just focus on the upside. Don’t give me those negative waves.

[00:22:09] Cameron: I remember even before you did the Pulled Pork on it, back in August last year, it delivered record FY23 results, headlined by record revenue and record underlying earnings, 18 percent increase in revenue, 50 percent increase in EBIT, 58 percent increase in EDPAT, and the shares dropped by 12 percent and I had to sell it.

[00:22:33] Cameron: It became a 3PTL sell. And then it continued to sell. Like I was just, that was in August. I was just looking at, how did it do? So it dropped from, uh, 31st of July, I was trading at 1. 20. End of August, it had dropped down to 1. 06. We sold it somewhere in that week. Then it continued to drop down to 82 cents the beginning of this year.

[00:22:56] Cameron: And it’s back up to about a buck, 1. Now, so the 3PTL got us out. Uh, at a good time, but, uh, yeah, that was, that was heartbreaking at the time. Record results and the

[00:23:11] Tony: Yeah. I think

[00:23:12] Cameron: tanked it.

[00:23:14] Tony: I suspect the, uh, the markets often don’t like acquiring companies. I suspect once the acquisition was announced, people just ran for the exits without even

[00:23:23] Tony: thinking too

[00:23:24] Cameron: One of our light members at the time who worked, worked or works at PRN sent me an email at the time saying, quick, Quick feedback from CEO. Market didn’t like lack of a dividend given consideration of a dividend was previously stated when leverage was under one but with refinancing due next year they wanted to keep some buffer plus allocation of future funds slash investments to electrification risk management and mining technology which have a number of years payback rather than shorter term returns to shareholders.

[00:23:55] Cameron: Loss of first US tender and big local tender weren’t seen as large negatives. So anyway.

[00:24:03] Tony: yeah, they’re lost. Um, but certainly back on the buy list now looking good.

[00:24:08] Cameron: Ah, good. Thank you for doing that again. Got a couple of questions. Should we get into those?

[00:24:15] Tony: Yeah, sure. But

[00:24:18] Cameron: Paul, long time, long time subscriber. Paul, uh, Cue Energy is on our buy list and I’ve started looking at it. CUE is actually a subsidiary of a larger entity, New Zealand Oil and Gas, NZO. NZO are currently listed on the New Zealand exchange, but are delisting soon to relist on the ASX.

[00:24:38] Cameron: All the Kiwis are coming here. Last person out of New Zealand, turn off the lights.

[00:24:44] Tony: if they get into trouble, we have to deport them back to New Zealand.

[00:24:47] Cameron: Yeah, exactly.

[00:24:49] Tony: because they were born over there.

[00:24:50] Cameron: I’m with Sam Neill and Russell Crowe, but my question is, in excess, no, the other ones,

[00:24:57] Tony: We should, we should get a vote every year. Like every time there’s a federal election, we should get a vote on which Kiwis to accept and which ones to send back.

[00:25:06] Cameron: I’ve got a Sam Neill story coming up later on anyway, but my question is really about dividends. Cue Energy has recently paid a large special dividend and announced a new policy to continue paying dividends in the future. Dividends are interesting to me as I invest through my SMSF and like to take advantage of the tax benefits arising from dividends.

[00:25:27] Cameron: However, I don’t think many of the QAV companies are subsidiaries of larger companies. How sure can I be that once Q starts earning enough cash to think about paying a dividend, that the money won’t just be shuffled up the line to the eventual owner, in this case, New Zealand Oil Gas? Point 2. Rather than down the line to the small owners like me, Would it be better to consider investing in the parent company?

[00:25:53] Cameron: I guess when it comes down to it, my question really is, who owns the dividends?

[00:25:59] Tony: Yeah, good question, Paul. How, how are you going? Um, so, NZO though, and CUE, Both have been on the buy list, I think they’re both very close to their sell lines now, so I think CUE was on the buy list last week, it’s come up again this week, it might pop back on again, it trades around at sell price, same with NZO, and NZO only has a small ADT on the ASX, but that will improve when it relists, delists in New Zealand and relists over here.

[00:26:29] Tony: But I guess that’s buy the buy. Uh, well I had a look at this today, NZO owns 50. 04 percent of CUE, and that gives them a majority of board seats, so they have, looks like they have 5 out of 9 board seats. So they will, they will, You know, potentially control the dividend policy, um, which, which the board sets.

[00:26:53] Tony: Uh, it can be, I guess, overturned by a vote at the AGM, but, um, you’d expect the board to set the dividend policy. Uh, but I think in this case, Paul, your interests and NZO’s interests align because 50, 50. 04 percent doesn’t give NZO control over the financial aspects of the company in terms of being able to consolidate the profit and loss into NZO’s balance sheets.

[00:27:19] Tony: So the only way they can get money out from their investment is by dividends, the same way that you are. So it’s actually, you know, In NZO’s interests, and they hold the majority of the board for CUE to start paying dividends to return capital back to um, NZO. And because the rule on the ASX is that every dividend has to be equally distributed amongst shareholders, then it, small investors like Paul will also get the same dividend for share as NZO.

[00:27:45] Tony: So I think you are, um, fine being listed in, uh, being, um, invested in CUE if you are. Uh, and, uh. I think if it makes sense that NZO is going to continue to want dividends out of their investment in CUE and that they’ll continue to have them flow. I did want to point out one particular item. Paul mentions that he’s interested in dividends because of his investment in his SMSF, which is not unusual.

[00:28:12] Tony: I mean, the reason I suspect that that’s the case is because of the franking credits. And so dividends get a bit of a special boost in Um, super funds because they have a lower tax rate than generally we pay either through ownership in a corporation or through, through our own private tax arrangements.

[00:28:33] Tony: Uh, so generally, um, you’ll get a cash rebate when it comes to tax time for the franking credit or part of the franking credit, which is, um, 30%. That’s the, the tax that’s been paid by CUE is 30%. And then, um, if you are paying say 15%, um, tax, uh, in your. SMSF, you’ll get 15 percent cash rebate back for the amount of tax that notionally has already been charged to you, um, but it was too high, so you get a rebate for it.

[00:29:01] Tony: Um, the only problem is that, um, I went and had a look at CUE’s notifications and they, um, I said that they were doing a special dividend, but it wouldn’t have franking credits, so just be aware of that, Paul, if you’re counting on a special sort of boost to your SMSF, you won’t get it with CUE. Um, generally, companies, um, who pay dividends without franking credits, Do it for two reasons.

[00:29:23] Tony: One either they haven’t earned enough income to pay enough tax to frank the dividends. Um, so there isn’t, so they haven’t paid company tax and so they therefore can’t, um, pass on a franking credit to you. Or the income is from overseas, it’s derived overseas and therefore wasn’t taxed in Australia. Same, same sort of thing.

[00:29:43] Tony: Um, which I think might be the case with CUE, although I don’t know. Um, know the business that well, but yeah, just be aware of that. If you are expecting franking credits, you may not get them with CUE.

[00:29:55] Cameron: What’s the um, ADT on CUE? I’m just looking to see if they’re on my ASX 300 list.

[00:30:01] Tony: Think they’re pretty small from memory.

[00:30:03] Cameron: Yeah, they’re not on the ASX 300 so I wouldn’t be able to buy them with my Superfund. Am I Superfund? Managed by Super. If Paul runs his own, I guess he has more flexibility with

[00:30:17] Tony: Yeah, yep. Uh, ADT for C U E, lot of acronyms there. Uh, it’s 45,

[00:30:26] Tony: 000.

[00:30:30] Cameron: Ah, but good question. Thanks, Paul. By the way, um, ASG’s up to 2. 20 again, so nudgin it. Just nudgin it.

[00:30:40] Tony: There you go. If you close your eyes for a couple of days, you don’t need to fudge. Just, you can just, yeah, just say what’s going to happen

[00:30:45] Cameron: Close your eyes,

[00:30:46] Tony: Turn, turn your senses off in Vulcan terminology.

[00:30:51] Cameron: The only other question we’ve got, another good one from Trent. He says, MME is on top of the buy list and new to the buy list. Dunno about that. Is it really new to the buy list?

[00:31:03] Tony: Uh, no idea that pulled pork on it last year or earlier this year.

[00:31:06] Cameron: Yeah, it might be new ish. I’m looking at historical buy lists. MME. This

[00:31:13] Tony: It wasn’t on last week, I think is Paul’s

[00:31:14] Cameron: right,

[00:31:15] Tony: Sorry, uh, French point.

[00:31:17] Cameron: yeah, I’m looking at it on the historical buy lists and, uh, chart and it’s only given me the one result. Advanced search, let’s look at, uh, this, yeah, within this sheet, yeah. I think it may not have been on for quite a while by the looks of it, which is surprising me. I always feel like MME is one of the regulars.

[00:31:42] Tony: Yeah, so I did it as a pulled pork in February, so it was definitely on the buy list in February.

[00:31:48] Cameron: It’s not showing up on my, um, historical buy lists, uh, table, but, okay. Bye. Take your word on them. Um, anywho, back to Trent’s question. He says, As a way to do a refresher on the QAV checklist, can you do a quick walkthrough of MME score last week versus this week and what the trigger is for it to now appear?

[00:32:15] Cameron: Assume the main driver is it now has a buy line, but interestingly its QAV score has fallen from last week. I note the IV2 EPS growth have also changed, but no new report, so is EPS growth based on analyst estimate change? Also interesting to note, two other similar businesses, Plenti, PLT, and Latitude Finance, LFS, have recently appeared on the buy list.

[00:32:40] Cameron: Trent, um,

[00:32:42] Tony: Yeah, I thought that was interesting. They’re all, they’re all sort of, um, non bank lenders to people, personal lenders. So, uh, don’t know what’s happening in that sector, but, um, Yeah, something is, and they’re all now on our buy list. Trent, the answer is to do a lot with, um, the way the bread loader’s working out the L1 and L2.

[00:33:01] Tony: So, the difference between last week and this week is that it’s the, last week was the end of the month, and we now rolled over into a new month this week. And, um, that just happened to coincide with the change in the L1 and L2 on the bread loader. So, last week, L1 for this company, MME, was, um, March 20 at 0.57 cents, and L two was April 21 at a dollar 37, and the sell price was 360 4 this week.

[00:33:29] Tony: L one is November 23 at 0.06, so 6 cents L two’s April 24 at 7 cents, and the sell price is 7 cents. So, um, MME is one of those companies we’ve seen share graphs over the, we’ve seen share graphs like this before over the course of the last five years. Uh, you know, in the first half of the five year period, the share price was much higher than what it’s been in the last year or two.

[00:33:53] Tony: And, uh, this just happens to be the month that resets the L1 and L2 to a new sell price. And it dropped dramatically from 0. 364 to 0. 07. And, so that’s probably the reason why it appeared this week. Um, the price did go up slightly, which affected price to cash flow, etc. So, for example, last week, the Quality score was 69%, this week it’s 73%.

[00:34:19] Tony: Last week the price was 6. 4 cents, this week it’s 7. 6 cents. PropCaf last week was 0. 34, um, this time, this time it’s 0. 41 times. So some changes, slight changes to the figures, uh, and the difference in the scoring I think will be due to the price movement up, um, but, uh, the main reason is the new L1 and L2 has changed the This week, because it’s a new month.

[00:34:48] Cameron: Right, and I note that it’s, um, actually right on the sell line, it’s trading at 7 cents at the moment, so it’s a Josephine and right on its sell line at the moment, so even though it’s on the buy list, probably wouldn’t be buying it unless its price goes So, that’s Above eight cents, which I think it has to be to get above being a Josephine.

[00:35:13] Cameron: So do you know what happened to it in 2022 that caused the share price to drop from whatever it was, two bucks down to eight cents, seven

[00:35:21] Tony: I don’t, sorry, no, I can’t remember what I said in the pulled pork on that one. Um, no, it doesn’t, uh, I’d just be guessing, sorry.

[00:35:31] Cameron: Hmm, looking at their um, announcements from back over that period doesn’t really seem to help. Something about a funding structure that happened late in 2022. Let’s see what goes back earlier. I can’t see. I can’t go back far enough, fast enough. Anyway, it’s a big, big drop. They completed 22, which resulted in a 27 percent decline in their price. Anyway, it’s trading very low compared to where it was a couple of years ago.

[00:36:09] Tony: I might do a, I might see if, um, Plenti or Latitude Financial are worth doing a pulled pork on next week. They’re small AT& T stocks, but they are new to our buy list as

[00:36:18] Cameron: Hmm.

[00:36:20] Tony: I had a bit to do with LFS in a prior life when it was GE money. And we launched, uh, some credit cards

[00:36:26] Tony: with them.

[00:36:27] Cameron: Oh, really?

[00:36:28] Tony: Hmm,

[00:36:29] Cameron: Must have been a long time

[00:36:30] Cameron: ago.

[00:36:32] Tony: Yeah, it was. Back when I was working for Shell. Shell Mastercard, and then, um, had a bit to do with them in the Flybuys program when I was at Coles Myer, and, uh, they, they ran the Myer card and the Coles Myer credit card. Back

[00:36:46] Cameron: Hmm.

[00:36:47] Tony: when they were called GE Money, before they sold out and floated as Latitude’s financial services.

[00:36:54] Cameron: Vaguely recall GE money from back in the day. All right. Well, I hope that helped, Trent. And that is all of the questions for today, TK. After hours, how did your horses go? You had a horse run on the weekend, didn’t you?

[00:37:15] Tony: Nah, I had one. Oh, I did actually, indubitably, you’re right. Uh, a horse racing up in, um, was racing in Bow Desert of all places. But just, uh, trying to get a run. There’s been lots of wet tracks up there recently and it ran fourth. So,

[00:37:30] Cameron: Not bad.

[00:37:31] Tony: uh, not too bad.

[00:37:33] Cameron: What else have you been up to for fun? Golf, how’s the golf?

[00:37:37] Tony: Yep. Played Magenta Shores, played, uh, Bondville, played Tunkari twice, so it’s been a lot of fun with Ruddy and another mate Jeff. Uh, yeah, just travelling around, it’s been good fun. Ruddy and I have a lot of, get up to a lot of silliness in the car when we’re driving along. It’s always

[00:37:55] Tony: fun.

[00:37:56] Cameron: Silliness. What kind of silliness do two guys of your age get up to in the car?

[00:38:02] Tony: ha ha ha ha

[00:38:04] Cameron: know, NSFW or can we talk about it?

[00:38:07] Tony: No, it’s definitely safe for work. It’s usually Benny Hill jokes. Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Bad, uh, bad Chinese impersonations. But um, yeah, we have fun.

[00:38:18] Cameron: Not sure that is safe for work these days.

[00:38:20] Tony: No, true. Alex always pulls me up on that. Cookie boy.

[00:38:27] Cameron: I just started, uh, reading a biography on Reilly, Ace of Spies.

[00:38:34] Tony: Oh, that’s, that’s the Sam Neill connection.

[00:38:36] Cameron: Neill connection.

[00:38:37] Cameron: I’ve never watched the series. I went to try and find it. It’s not on any of the streaming services at the moment. I can’t, I remember when it was out of the 80s. I never really paid much attention, but Sidney George Reilly has popped up in one of the books.

[00:38:53] Cameron: I was, I was reading a book on the history of MI6 as part of my Cold War.

[00:39:00] Tony: Oh, yeah. Okay.

[00:39:01] Cameron: Sidney Reilly came up as being deeply connected with MI6 in the early part of its history. And, uh, I was like, I know nothing about this guy. And they were talking about him like he was the real deal. And in fact, one of the things that’s often said about him is he’s one of the guys that Ian Fleming based James Bond on because, um, one of the guys that Reilly was involved with, Um, in sort of 1918 ish, when they were trying to, um, assassinate Lenin was, uh, a guy called Flockhart who ended up, you know, Fleming knew quite well and worked with, and they reckon that Flockhart would have told Fleming a lot of stories about Reilly and that he, um, Uh, you know, then sort of built James Bond partly around this character.

[00:39:52] Cameron: As I think there was a number of people that influenced the development of Bond, but, um, yeah. So I read, I read his Wikipedia page and was like, Oh my God. You know much, do you ever see the series? Do you know much about this guy?

[00:40:04] Tony: No, I read, um, read, uh, what’s his name’s biography last year. Sam Neill, his first big starring role was as Reilly. And he pikes fun of it because he was supposed to be a sex symbol. And I think Sam, as much as I like Sam Neill as a person, um, I’m not sure he’d ever qualify as a sex symbol in

[00:40:24] Tony: my book.

[00:40:25] Cameron: Well, that’s the funny thing about Reilly is that he wasn’t a good looking dude, but was married like five times, had women all over the world, and married to these women simultaneously around the world. He was a bigamist. Um, but yeah, big hit with the ladies, but the biographer points out, you know, was not good looking, really.

[00:40:51] Cameron: And his original name was like Rosenberg. He was, uh, Russian Jew who just started selling his services. I think he, he, like he started off this crazy story. Like he, in the late 1800s, he was in England selling like, um, dodgy miracle cures, uh, and he had some wealthy. Lorde or something that he was selling these miracle cures to.

[00:41:25] Cameron: Met this Lord’s much younger wife, ended up having an affair with her. The Lord mysteriously dies a week after changing his will. She inherits a ton of money. and marries Reilly. And, uh, then he just sets himself up as like this gentlemen, adventurous spy dude, and worked for all sides, worked for the Japanese, worked for the Russians, worked for the British.

[00:41:55] Cameron: Um, just basically sold himself to any taker and, but would like, uh, Take on identities as, uh, you know, this businessman or that businessman and would spend years infiltrating these country’s, uh, business elite and government elite in order to get information that he would then sell to somebody and, you know.

[00:42:21] Cameron: Crazy stories, and half of them probably aren’t true, but these are the stories that have come down

[00:42:26] Tony: Yeah, right.

[00:42:28] Cameron: I think his life was first serialized in the, some British newspaper in the early 1900s, and the biography I’m reading, the guy’s trying to unpick, you know, what’s real and what’s myth and what’s

[00:42:40] Tony: right. Yep.

[00:42:42] Cameron: anyway, he ended up,

[00:42:43] Tony: Sounds

[00:42:44] Cameron: he tried to assassinate Lenin, on behalf of the British, in like 1918, and, Somebody else tried to assassinate him first, shot him a couple of times and so their plot fell through.

[00:43:00] Cameron: Then he went back to Russia in 1925 when there was something called the Trust which was set up, which was a group of elites that were going to overthrow the Bolsheviks. And sort of reached out to him and he went back to support them in overthrowing the Bolsheviks. And it turned out that the, uh, trust was fake.

[00:43:23] Cameron: It was set up by the OGPU to get him, get him

[00:43:26] Cameron: back into the country, him and

[00:43:28] Tony: Ha ha

[00:43:29] Cameron: And, uh, they got arrested and executed.

[00:43:34] Tony: Ooh.

[00:43:34] Cameron: Anyway, fascinating, after hearing about him all my life, you know, to finally read about him, even though he’s not really even a Reilly, he was a Rosenblum, so.

[00:43:44] Tony: Oh, you think he might have been a, uh, been part of your

[00:43:47] Tony: heritage

[00:43:48] Cameron: No, but I didn’t know that until this, I’ve, you know, ever since the series came out, I’ve heard about Reilly, Ace of Spies, and people have called me Reilly, Ace of Spies, and I always assumed he was a Reilly somewhere, and I thought, oh, I should read about this guy, he’s a

[00:44:02] Tony: I thought they were calling you Ace of Pies, it’s Ace of Spies. Ahhhh.

[00:44:07] Cameron: I do. I do love a good pie. Anyway, so, that’s fun. Uh, the Blues Brothers was

[00:44:14] Cameron: fun.

[00:44:15] Cameron: Uh, having my wife back is fun, for a whole bunch of reasons. Um, heh heh

[00:44:22] Tony: Name one.

[00:44:24] Cameron: heh. We’ve got to keep it safe at work, Tony.

[00:44:27] Tony: No, it’s just she bought you a

[00:44:28] Tony: cap.

[00:44:29] Cameron: me a cap. Yeah.

[00:44:31] Tony: That’s good. And everything was fine with her mother and sisters?

[00:44:35] Cameron: Yeah.

[00:44:36] Tony: As good as it could be?

[00:44:37] Tony: Yep.

[00:44:37] Cameron: Yeah. She had a, she had a good trip. She, um, uh, enjoyed researching the U. S. stock market, uh, for QAV. That was the main purpose of the trip.

[00:44:54] Tony: Right. I’m looking forward to getting her on the

[00:44:56] Tony: show

[00:44:56] Cameron: Yes, well, she will provide a written report, uh,

[00:45:00] Tony: Ah, okay.

[00:45:01] Cameron: Did a lot of research. She did, uh, happen to catch up with some family while she was there, but that was coincidental. Rarely,

[00:45:09] Cameron: yeah, yeah, evenings and weekends, most of the time was QAV related research. Um, apparently they have a stock market over there, and it’s booming.

[00:45:19] Tony: It’s been doing okay. Yeah, it’s been doing okay.

[00:45:21] Cameron: what I got out of her report.

[00:45:23] Tony: Yeah, right. That’s, that’s the report in a nutshell, is

[00:45:26] Tony: it?

[00:45:26] Cameron: basically high level.

[00:45:31] Tony: You’re very observant, your wife.

[00:45:33] Cameron: you can’t, can’t pull a trick on her, I tell you. Uh, that’s it? Yeah, I

[00:45:39] Tony: good. Yep.

[00:45:40] Cameron: tell you. Oh,

[00:45:42] Tony: I watched, um, finished off watching Dream Scenario,

[00:45:45] Cameron: what did you think?

[00:45:46] Tony: Oh, until it got harder to watch as it went along. I mean, it’s well made, but just the negativity. Heaped on the character was just hard

[00:45:56] Tony: to

[00:45:56] Tony: watch.

[00:45:57] Cameron: was sort of the point, right?

[00:45:59] Tony: I know. Yeah. I kind of found it like a metaphor for celebrity and influences and all that kind of stuff.

[00:46:06] Tony: How, you know, a random guy was picked out to be a celebrity and dragged along by the fame. It went to his head and it turned sour and he couldn’t cope with it. And then in the end, it’s picked up by the dickheads in the Beverly Hills community. Hotel or Beverly Hills house and someone makes a, you know, a, a scam, someone sets up a scam and you put on your risk and

[00:46:28] Cameron: not a

[00:46:28] Tony: into your dreams and

[00:46:29] Tony: go, yes, it

[00:46:30] Tony: was

[00:46:30] Cameron: they were actually, he got into his wife’s dreams.

[00:46:34] Tony: Uh, yeah, maybe.

[00:46:37] Cameron: yeah.

[00:46:37] Tony: Yeah. Anyway, I, I thought it was really, it, you know, uh, well, it was a metaphor for celebrity, but it

[00:46:44] Cameron: I don’t think it was a metaphor.

[00:46:45] Cameron: It was deliberately, it was, he became a celebrity. It was very direct. I mean, it was a commentary, I think, on

[00:46:53] Tony: Commentary. That’s a better word.

[00:46:54] Cameron: Yeah. And do you think. Everything turned against him because he had the sexual encounter, the brief attempted flirty affair with the younger girl.

[00:47:05] Tony: That was interesting. I was trying to work out whether that was like, um, you know, there’s some kind of moral dimension to it that the dreams all change when, when that happened, but I’m not sure. Cause he was suspecting his wife was cheating at the same time. So that was the other moral dimension to it, whether, yeah.

[00:47:21] Tony: And he didn’t actually go through with the, with the flirting with the girl. So it was just, I read it as being another example of how he wasn’t coping with his, with his

[00:47:29] Tony: newfound

[00:47:30] Cameron: And as soon as he got the fame, he really got angry and bitter and wanted all of his fame to be about his academic work and not about what Michael Cera’s PR company wanted it to be about. And

[00:47:43] Tony: yeah,

[00:47:43] Cameron: messed him up and messed up his life. And yeah, I thought it was a good morality tale on instant unearned celebrity and chasing that.

[00:47:54] Cameron: And he started to revel in that and thought he could use it. for good, but it ruined his life.

[00:48:05] Tony: yeah, which I thought was very sad but, you

[00:48:08] Tony: know, probably

[00:48:09] Cameron: It was a, it was a difficult film, but it, uh, like, highly original. I thought the writer, director, whatever his name was, did a great job. And it’s just great for me to see Cage. You know, I’m number, Cage fan number one. Uh, to see him again, just make an interesting film, add a character for him. Um, he’s at the top of his game,

[00:48:31] Tony: mm,

[00:48:32] Cameron: at least for many decades, you know, he had a great period in the 80s and early 90s, but, um, he’s back, like, just,

[00:48:40] Tony: went missing there for a while where he was just an actor for hire and didn’t matter what the

[00:48:44] Tony: script

[00:48:45] Tony: was.

[00:48:45] Cameron: yeah, but as I always say, it doesn’t matter how bad the film was, he always brought his A game and it was always, always fun to watch

[00:48:53] Tony: Yeah.

[00:48:53] Cameron: Cage. Did you see Pig?

[00:48:57] Tony: No.

[00:48:58] Cameron: Ah, watch Pig. Have you seen Mandy?

[00:49:01] Tony: No.

[00:49:02] Cameron: another great, these are like some of the great films he’s pushed out in the last couple of years, Pig and Mandy, um, Mandy’s more to type, Pig again, very against type for him, barely talks in the whole film, about a, about a guy who lives out in the woods in a little hut and somebody steals his truffle pig, and you think it’s going to be John Wick, but it’s not.

[00:49:24] Tony: Yeah, right. It’s not.

[00:49:25] Tony: Okay.

[00:49:26] Cameron: that’s where you think it’s going, but it doesn’t go

[00:49:29] Cameron: there. And it’s really, really, I thought a terrific performance. Anyway, very proud

[00:49:34] Tony: Oh, thanks for the

[00:49:35] Cameron: very proud of Nicolas Cage.

[00:49:37] Tony: Yeah, and the last thing, I haven’t started reading it yet, but I’ve just bought a book called Soros on Soros, Getting Back to Investing, so I’ll pick that one up and have a look through that, based, I mean, based on, um, reading about Druckenmiller last week, we were talking about him on the show last week, and he used to work for Soros, yeah, and I thought I hadn’t read a good book on Soros, so I bought it.

[00:49:59] Tony: Tracked

[00:49:59] Tony: one

[00:49:59] Cameron: Yeah, I think I read something on Soros years ago, but I forget it all. He’s one of those guys that’s sort of vilified by particularly the right, you know, they think everything is a Soros conspiracy to do

[00:50:15] Cameron: something.

[00:50:15] Tony: he’s done lots of funding of pro democracy campaigns in various

[00:50:20] Tony: countries. Yeah, so he’s not, not, um, not a fan of the right, well the right’s not a fan of

[00:50:27] Tony: him.

[00:50:27] Cameron: Hmm. Yeah, interesting character. Would be good to know more about him and what he’s done. You have to tell me what you think.

[00:50:37] Tony: Yeah, looking forward to reading that. Eh, but that’s about it otherwise, it was good to have a break.

[00:50:42] Cameron: And what have you got on for this week?

[00:50:45] Tony: Ah, this week I’m just catching up basically, with what I hadn’t been doing while I was away. Start to look at the US stocks for

[00:50:51] Tony: QAV.

[00:50:51] Cameron: we’re going to try that next week.

[00:50:54] Tony: Ah, if I, can I get back to you on that? I think I’ll have enough time to go through it, but I really want to be prepped and not coming into a

[00:51:00] Tony: cold.

[00:51:01] Cameron: Yeah. Well, we should come up with a plan for, um, you know, what, what that first episode is going to look like, what we’re going to talk about,

[00:51:08] Tony: Mmm. Yeah.

[00:51:11] Cameron: I haven’t looked at, or I haven’t looked at the, um, US portfolio today, but when I looked at it, Late last week, there was another stock, uh, that we had that just had a massive jump.

[00:51:23] Cameron: Let me have a quick look at it, um, for the six months, uh, well, since September 20 when the portfolio starts, it’s up 25 percent versus the S& P 500 up 18. 9%, but, um, ours may include dividends. I’m not exactly sure how Stockopedia calculates it, and I’m assuming the S& P doesn’t. But, um, anyway, either way, 25 percent return since, uh, end of

[00:51:56] Cameron: September’s pretty damn good.

[00:51:59] Tony: Very good. Yeah. So I’ll have a look at that and see what we can do with that. Hey, what’s, um, what’s been the dummy portfolio latest number since inception? The CAGR on that, because I was looking through it myself today because I was talking to some industry people at lunch and it looked like it was about 17.

[00:52:16] Tony: 8%, but I may have read that wrong. 15.

[00:52:18] Cameron: Let me just pull it up, let me, it’s all time, 15. 6, 15.

[00:52:28] Tony: 6, I did get it wrong. Okay, still pretty good.

[00:52:33] Cameron: 6 versus, um, the STW 8. 6. So not quite double, but not far off double.

[00:52:46] Tony: that’s good.

[00:52:48] Cameron: So yeah, no, it’s, uh, doing well, but like, as I think we said last week, and I know I said in something recently, this financial year, um, it’s underperformed. We’re up 10. 98 versus STW up 12. 58. And in fact, over the last two years, I think we’ve under, uh, it’s neck and neck. Last two years, we’re up 7. 95, it’s up 8.

[00:53:13] Cameron: 49, eight and a half. So sort of neck and neck over the last two years, slightly under this financial year. So, but you know, had all that wonderful growth coming out of COVID, then it’s eased back a little bit.

[00:53:28] Tony: Yep.

[00:53:29] Cameron: I assume we’re just waiting for our next,

[00:53:32] Tony: Next leg

[00:53:33] Cameron: yeah, next big year, push us up again, and then we.

[00:53:37] Cameron: You know, it evens out.

[00:53:38] Tony: we don’t know when that’s, we don’t know when that’s going to happen.

[00:53:41] Cameron: And who would have thought it was going to happen in, you know, 2020 when the world was shutting down. You would not have thought that that was going to happen, but

[00:53:50] Tony: Yeah, that’s right.

[00:53:53] Cameron: all right.

[00:53:54] Tony: Good. Okay. Well, thanks

[00:53:55] Tony: for

[00:53:55] Cameron: Thank you for those questions, Paul and Trent. Good, good questions. Unusual questions. Keep them coming people and, uh, QAV a good week.

[00:54:04] Tony: Yeah, you too. Happy ASX.

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