QAV 720 — Boom!

QAV 720 Club

[00:00:00] Cameron: Wel­come back to QAV Episode 720. This is the 14th of May, 2024. Hap­py Bud­get Day, TK.

[00:00:16] Tony: hope so. Let’s hope it’s a hap­py bud­get

[00:00:20] Cameron: Well, you know, it’s always, it’s like every day is a good day. Every bud­get’s a good bud­get, you know, for some, for some­one.

[00:00:28] Tony: for some­one, yeah. The um, inter­est­ing, I mean, the inter­est­ing thing about this bud­get is it’s, it’s look­ing like it’s what I was hop­ing for when we were talk­ing about the RBA a lot last year when they were rais­ing inter­est rates. So there was no point the gov­ern­ment giv­ing out mon­ey to peo­ple, which was caus­ing infla­tion, for then the RBA to try and squash by putting inter­est rates up.

[00:00:49] Tony: So there seems to be a bit of. A bit of cohe­sion between the RBA on inter­est rates and what­ev­er’s com­ing out in the bud­get. At least that’s what’s being flagged. It’s not going to be infla­tion­ary, but I guess we’ll wait and see.

[00:01:03] Cameron: Hmm.

[00:01:04] Tony: Hmm. But hope­ful­ly there’s some syn­chronic­i­ty there.

[00:01:07] Cameron: If the mar­ket’s reac­tion today is any indi­ca­tion, it’s not expect­ing to be pleased.

[00:01:13] Tony: Well, it won’t real­ly react until tomor­row. Although there’s, there’s been a lot of announce­ments already made before this bud­get. So the mar­ket should have start­ed to absorb some of those already.

[00:01:24] Cameron: Well, the Fin said the mar­ket was down because of bud­get, upcom­ing bud­get rumours or some­thing. So any­way, mar­ket’s down is the point.

[00:01:34] Tony: We can believe the fin, can we?

[00:01:38] Cameron: lis­ten, I’m just say­ing, this is what the Fin says. I’m not, I’m not judg­ing it. I’m just say­ing,

[00:01:43] Tony: What the Fin says, yeah, uh, I’ve got to say, um, I’m dis­ap­point­ed in the edi­to­ri­als pages in the Fin these days. It used to be a lot fair­er and bal­anced, now it’s tak­ing up an oppo­si­tion stance against the gov­ern­ment, which is fine in some cas­es, but it just seems to be a bit biased at the moment.

[00:02:03] Tony: It’s a bit of feed­back for the Fin.

[00:02:05] Cameron: has Rupert tak­en over the Fin?

[00:02:09] Tony: No, but some­times I look at it, I mean, yeah, it’s a busi­ness news­pa­per, so you’re expect­ed to have some kind of bias. Right­ness, right wing bias about it, but, you know, back in the good old days when Alan Kohler was the edi­tor of The Fin, it was, it was much more, uh, inde­pen­dent and bal­anced, I thought.

[00:02:27] Cameron: It is dif­fer­ent every time. It’s, it’s always dif­fer­ent, Tony. It’s nev­er the same.

[00:02:32] Tony: Well, it is dif­fer­ent these days. Finan­cial Review has an edi­tor who does­n’t like the gov­ern­ment and, uh, lets it be known.

[00:02:40] Cameron: Don’t hit me with them neg­a­tive words so ear­ly in the morn­ing.

[00:02:43] Tony: I love Don­ald Suther­land.

[00:02:45] Cameron: had Alex and Sean over for din­ner on Sat­ur­day night and Don­ald Suther­land came up at some point and Alex said some­thing about Kiefer Suther­land and then she said, Oh no, it was­n’t Kiefer, it was his dad. And Don­ald Suther­land, I don’t like Don­ald Suther­land. I was like, Oh, your dad’s a big Don­ald Suther­land fan.

[00:03:03] Tony: but she likes, she told me she likes it. She told me she likes Elliot Gould and they were in a lot of films togeth­er.

[00:03:11] Cameron: Yeah, I liked Elliot Gould. He was good back in the day.

[00:03:15] Tony: they were both

[00:03:16] Cameron: took my s

[00:03:17] Tony: so refresh­ing.

[00:03:18] Cameron: They were good, yes. They were part of that new gen­er­a­tion.

[00:03:21] Tony: Yeah,

[00:03:22] Cameron: more real­is­tic than the actors from the 50s, you know. Sort of, some­where, part of the whole, um, act­ing stu­dio. I don’t know if they went to the act­ing stu­dio, but part of

[00:03:33] Tony: I doubt it.

[00:03:34] Cameron: real­is­tic act­ing kind of thing.

[00:03:36] Tony: Yeah, and yeah, com­plete­ly dif­fer­ent to John Wayne and William Hold­en and all those kind of guys.

[00:03:45] Cameron: I took my son to Buf­fet­t’s Berk­shire Hath­away AGM again, Tony. Not me, I wish. I bought Fox, it’s Fox’s birth­day the oth­er day, I bought him a copy of Bare­foot for Kids.

[00:03:56] Tony: Ah, good.

[00:03:58] Cameron: And then he went and spent 70 on a Poke­mon card, imme­di­ate­ly.

[00:04:03] Tony: He’s trad­ing assets. Is he going to trade it? Is he going to sell it at some stage? Right.

[00:04:09] Cameron: is, I’m gonna hold onto this for 10 years and then it’s gonna be worth, and I’m like, no, it’s not. You’re, you’re I said, I explained the greater fool the­o­ry to him as we’re walk­ing around Cherm­side after this. I said, you’re bet­ting on the fact that there’ll be some kid who’s made a lot of mon­ey in 10 years, uh, who, uh, wants to buy it for nos­tal­gia pur­pos­es.

[00:04:30] Cameron: Actu­al­ly, um, Navare, the CEO of Navexa, has been doing like lit­tle vlogs every morn­ing at like 5am when he dri­ves to the gym, he just turns his phone on and talks to it and posts them to YouTube or some­thing. And, um, One of his, a cou­ple of weeks ago, he was talk­ing about the first busi­ness, uh, uh, ven­ture he was ever involved in was trad­ing Poke­mon cards when he was in high school.

[00:04:55] Cameron: He said Poke­mon cards had just come out and he told this whole sto­ry about how he built this mas­sive col­lec­tion and there was this one card that one oth­er kid had that every­one want­ed, Charizard, I think it was, and, and every­one was try­ing to trade this kid for it and the kid would­n’t trade it, so.

[00:05:12] Cameron: Navar­ro col­lect­ed a school, an entire school bag full of cards and said to the guy, I’ll trade this entire bag for your one Charizard. The guy went for it. And then he said, the rea­son he want­ed the Charizard is because then you got first option for any new cards that came into the school. Every­one came to you first to see if you’d trade.

[00:05:35] Cameron: So you got to see every­one’s wares first. But then a cou­ple of oth­er kids came in with a Charizard and then he said, I start­ed to real­ize that the mar­ket val­ue of my Charizard was­n’t that high if there were oth­er Charizards. So then he had to cre­ate a monop­oly. He had to try and get anoth­er school bag full of cards to trade for the Charizard for the oth­er kids.

[00:05:54] Cameron: So he con­trolled the entire Charizard mar­ket at his school and it was inter­est­ing. So I showed that to Fox. And I think it had the wrong impact. It’s like when you told my son Hunter to read the Schwarzeneg­ger biog­ra­phy and he just decid­ed he was going to actu­al­ly have Schwarzeneg­ger’s career, um, kind of back­fired, did­n’t have the intend­ed effect. Same thing, me show­ing that

[00:06:21] Tony: Well, it was­n’t meant to have any effect on him oth­er than to, you know, be an inter­est­ing book with some life lessons in it.

[00:06:27] Cameron: Well, that’s what I’m say­ing. That was your inten­tion. Hey, like, have a read of this. It’s a good book. And he was like, I, I am Arnold Schwarzeneg­ger. That’s what he took out of it. Um, my oth­er son, Tay­lor, flew off to LA again today. Gone to LA to, uh, do an event with Will Smith, um, for the, uh,

[00:06:45] Tony: Will rang up and asked

[00:06:46] Cameron: of the new Bad Boys film.

[00:06:47] Cameron: Sony actu­al­ly rang up and asked for one of Tay­lor’s guys, Adam Mila­tovich, Mila­tovich, to be there, uh, cause he’s a bit of a bad boy. And, um, Tay­lor said, well, he can’t go any­where with­out his man­ag­er, so

[00:07:03] Tony: Ha ha ha ha.

[00:07:06] Cameron: keep him out

[00:07:06] Tony: entourage. So Tay­lor’s, is Tay­lor tur­tle or dra­ma

[00:07:10] Cameron: Tay­lor’s E.

[00:07:12] Tony: E. Oh yeah, of course. Okay. Yeah.

[00:07:14] Cameron: he’s E. Yeah, yeah. And a lit­tle bit of Ari. He’s a com­bi­na­tion of E and Ari Gold and Tur­tle because he sort of is the dri­ver as well. Any­who, I took my son, uh, this arti­cle, I’m gonna get there even­tu­al­ly, Morn­ingstar, um, by Dan Lefkowitz. Lefkowitz, he’s, uh, despite the PlaySta­tion’s appeal, Lefkowitz Jr.

[00:07:35] Cameron: returns to Oma­ha for a sec­ond look at one of the most cel­e­brat­ed events in the invest­ing cal­en­dar. A cou­ple of years ago I brought my son Isaac to the Berk­shire Hath­away Annu­al Gen­er­al Meet­ing and wrote about it for Morn­ingstar. com. Got some nice feed­back, most­ly along the lines of, awww. I also got trolled on social media on the grounds of what kind of obses­sive dad takes a kid to a share­hold­er meet­ing instead of Dis­ney­land.

[00:07:57] Cameron: Fair ques­tion. Hon­est­ly, it was­n’t my idea to drag 14 year old Isaac back to Oma­ha, Nebras­ka last week­end. Our 2022 trip was part­ly revenge­ful trav­el to com­pen­sate for a pan­dem­ic derailed spring break. This year’s meet­ing came at a busy time, so I was­n’t exact­ly jump­ing to do an 8 hour dri­ve through Chica­go rush hour traf­fic.

[00:08:16] Cameron: End­less Iowan corn­fields and prairie light­ning storms. It was Isaac who insist­ed he had emerged from the 2022 meet­ing a bit of a Berk­shire head and want­ed to see how Char­lie Munger’s pass­ing would change things. He also thinks War­ren Buf­fett is hilar­i­ous. Um, so that’s nice. But, uh, he, the key of this is he has what his son’s, um, uh, Uh, things that he hopes he absorbed.

[00:08:43] Cameron: These are the virtues I hope he absorbed from this year’s meet­ing. Virtue num­ber one, kind­ness. That’s not the first thing you think about when you go to an annu­al gen­er­al meet­ing is, uh, some­one’s going to take away kind­ness. When a rep­re­sen­ta­tive of an envi­ron­men­tal jus­tice group in Neva­da asked a chal­leng­ing ques­tion on util­i­ty rates and renew­able ener­gy invest­ment, the response was thought­ful and cour­te­ous.

[00:09:07] Cameron: No mat­ter what or how he’s asked, Buf­fett treats the ques­tion with respect. Kind­ness is free, he said, not­ing that the world isn’t bet­ter if you’re rich­er. So I thought that was nice. Virtue num­ber two was friend­ship.

[00:09:19] Tony: they don’t always treat ques­tion­ers with kind­ness. I mean, they’re, they’re cer­tain­ly cour­te­ous, but when, um, when I was there at the annu­al gen­er­al meet­ing eight or nine years ago, uh, and some­one got up and said, how can you be invest­ing in Coca Cola and See’s can­dy when there’s an obe­si­ty epi­dem­ic caused by sug­ar?

[00:09:39] Tony: Rock­ing the US. And Char­lie just sat there eat­ing peanut brit­tles. That was all he did. So that was­n’t too kind. And the guy lived to be 99.

[00:09:51] Cameron: peo­ple ask him about Bit­coin, he calls it Rat Poi­son Squared. It’s not, I guess it’s cour­te­ous. Any­way, virtue num­ber two, friend­ship. Ask­ing invest­ing suc­ces­sor Greg Abel to weigh in on a ques­tion.

[00:10:02] Tony: Sor­ry. Excuse me. Can I go back to kind­ness? Because I thought there was a great, great quote in

[00:10:07] Cameron: Yeah, you can inter­rupt me to go back to kind­ness, Tony. Sure,

[00:10:10] Tony: Kind­ly, with the great­est of respect. Now, shut up. So Buf­fet­t’s quote was kind­ness is free. He said, Buf­fett said, not­ing that the world isn’t bet­ter if you’re rich­er. I thought that was a great quote.

[00:10:28] Cameron: I read that.

[00:10:29] Tony: Did you? Well, I’ve under­lined it, so I’m empha­siz­ing it.

[00:10:33] Cameron: Oh, okay. It is a great quote. Yeah.

[00:10:36] Tony: Yeah, you’ll hear a lot of that tonight in the bud­get speech. They’ll repeat things twice just to empha­size them.

[00:10:41] Cameron: how have you found the world since you’ve been Richard? Tony, is it treat­ing you bet­ter?

[00:10:46] Tony: Oh, that’s a good ques­tion. No, I can laugh it off, but, um, but no, I used to say, I haven’t said it for a while, but I used to say that all get­ting wealthy did was to move you into a big­ger class of bills, big­ger class of headaches. It’s kind of true. Yeah.

[00:11:03] Cameron: Yeah. Uh, well he goes on virtue, I won’t go into detail, but virtue num­ber two is friend­ship, because he men­tions the thing when Buf­fett acci­den­tal­ly said Char­lie. Um, uh, virtue num­ber three, humil­i­ty. Virtue num­ber four, grat­i­tude. He repeat­ed­ly stress­es his luck at win­ning the birth lot­tery and to have found some­thing he loves to do and peo­ple he loves work­ing with.

[00:11:28] Cameron: He thanked oth­ers through­out the meet­ing. Buf­fett attrib­uted his and Munger’s longevi­ty to luck, Char­lie nev­er did a day of phys­i­cal exer­cise and did not watch what he ate, etc. Um, virtue

[00:11:40] Tony: Well, that, hang on, that, that’s, that’s a great quote. But the impor­tant part is that it’s, it con­tin­ues on, um, it’s like­ly that this posi­tion has con­tributed. So this is talk­ing about Char­lie and War­ren’s lge longevi­ty. When asked if he was wor­ried about the nation­al debt buf­fet replied on anoth­er war­rior, Any­way, guy’s a bil­lion­aire, so why, why does you have to wor­ry? But, but, um, yeah, I mean, the, the, the point is they both. Don’t fol­low advice in terms of diet and exer­cise, but they’re both long lived and per­haps it is the pow­er of pos­i­tive think­ing or pos­i­tive mind­set or what­ev­er that got them to where they are.

[00:12:22] Cameron: Well, all the Blue Zone stuff cer­tain­ly sug­gests that your men­tal and emo­tion­al health plays a big role in longevi­ty, cer­tain­ly. You know,

[00:12:34] Tony: And so does the um, what’s the name? Eliz­a­beth Black­burn, the telom­eres

[00:12:40] Cameron: oh yeah,

[00:12:41] Tony: Yeah, it talks about the effect between stress and short­en­ing of your, is it telom­eres or telom­eres? I nev­er know how to pro­nounce that word.

[00:12:48] Cameron: yeah, Telom­eres is how I nor­mal­ly pro­nounce it, but yeah.

[00:12:52] Tony: yeah,

[00:12:52] Cameron: Oh, that’s inter­est­ing, I did­n’t remem­ber that part, but um, yeah, look, it’s, uh, cer­tain­ly been my expe­ri­ence that peo­ple that seem to be hap­py and at peace seem to live longer lives. I mean, I haven’t done any deep analy­sis on it. But, uh, I think like wor­ry­ing and being neg­a­tive and being angry and all that kind of stuff can’t be good for your, I mean, cer­tain­ly not good for your men­tal and, and, uh, you know, psy­cho­log­i­cal, emo­tion­al health, but that has to have an impact on the rest of your body.

[00:13:26] Cameron: Cause you know, the brain is, can, is part of the whole sys­tem. If the, if your, If you’re, you know, get­ting adren­a­line worked up in you all the time for the wrong rea­sons, or we know a lot more about neu­ro­chem­i­cals and the impact that the stress­es that they put on dif­fer­ent parts of your body, it can’t be good for you.

[00:13:44] Tony: no, that’s all true. I’m sure, I’m sure some­one can point out to a crotch­ety old 90 year old who’s out there that they know, um, but I, I agree with you, if for noth­ing else. If you’re going to live a long time, you’re bet­ter off being hap­py rather than being mis­er­able. It’s going to be a bet­ter qual­i­ty of life.

[00:14:00] Tony: But also, too, I’ve found you make bet­ter deci­sions if you’re in a pos­i­tive frame of mind. You’re open to ideas, you’re relaxed, and if there’s a prob­lem in the facts, you find it quick­er. But if you’re sort of being neg­a­tive and being angry just clos­es down your mind, I think, as well. You make worse deci­sions.

[00:14:21] Cameron: I agree. So grat­i­tude read­ing. He talked about virtue num­ber six, secu­ri­ty

[00:14:27] Tony: Huge one. Can I just call that one out too? Yeah.

[00:14:31] Cameron: Okay. Let’s, let’s just slow down.

[00:14:33] Tony: We should. I thought this was a real­ly good arti­cle.

[00:14:36] Cameron: Okay,

[00:14:37] Tony: There’s a quote from Munger who once said, In my whole life I have known no wise peo­ple who did­n’t read all the time. None. Zero. You’d be amazed at how much War­ren reads and how much I read. My chil­dren laugh at me.

[00:14:48] Tony: They think I’m a book with a cou­ple of legs stick­ing out. And I know you read. I read. I’ve got

[00:14:56] Cameron: Yeah.

[00:14:57] Tony: I can nev­er keep up with my list of book pur­chas­es, but I do read. And that’s just so impor­tant. I mean, how do you find out new things if you, if you don’t seek them out your­self and keep read­ing?

[00:15:08] Cameron: I, I don’t under­stand peo­ple who don’t read and my sons aren’t read­ers. My old­er sons,

[00:15:16] Tony: Oh, real­ly?

[00:15:16] Cameron: my old­er sons aren’t real­ly read­ers. Um, and I’ve nev­er under­stood that because

[00:15:22] Tony: Well, Hunter read, Hunter read Arnold Schwarzeneg­ger’s biog­ra­phy.

[00:15:26] Cameron: I think he lis­tened to the audio book ver­sion of it, you know. Um. Like for me of my entire life, like it’s, I just have so many ques­tions that I need to have answered and books is where I go.

[00:15:39] Cameron: I mean, increas­ing­ly Chat­G­PT, but, uh, books is, and, and it’s been fed on the books. So that’s, you know, it’s just regur­gi­tat­ing the books to me, but I still do. Yeah. It’s just con­stant. Like I’ve got, I’m always halfway through 10 dif­fer­ent books on every sort of top­ic, you know.

[00:15:56] Tony: same. Yeah. Well, and I don’t, I would­n’t nec­es­sar­i­ly say I turn to books for answers, although, you know, I obvi­ous­ly have in my invest­ing career, but it’s more, you just, you learn things and you learn by, you know, There’s a link­age between, you know, I’ve read this book by some­one and I’ve heard a rec­om­men­da­tion that he also, or she also, rec­om­mend­ed to read this, or they were ref­er­enced here.

[00:16:22] Tony: So you fol­low like a whole line of rec­om­men­da­tions, and that’s one of the rea­sons why I’ve always loved Munger, because he was always talk­ing about Edmund O. Wil­son. You know, the biol­o­gist and eth­no­bi­ol­o­gist and, and archi­tec­ture and engi­neer­ing and all sorts of things. So you pick up huge rec­om­men­da­tions, influ­ence that, that great book on mar­ket­ing, um, came from him.

[00:16:44] Tony: And then once you read that, you know, that leads you on to Kah­ne­man and Tver­sky and, um, all sorts of dif­fer­ent things. It’s, it’s just, yeah, I, I, in this, in par­tic­u­lar, in this day and age when peo­ple are so opin­ion­at­ed, Often with­out the facts, and when the media is so biased, it’s the only way to real­ly get data and form opin­ions.

[00:17:07] Cameron: Yeah, even though, of course, books always have a bias and an agen­da

[00:17:11] Tony: Well, they do.

[00:17:12] Cameron: as well. But, you know, my entire adult life has sort of been dri­ven by the fact that I read one book and it men­tions some, you know, often a throw­away line, I go, Oh, I don’t know any­thing about that. What’s that? So I have to go read a book on that.

[00:17:26] Cameron: And the process con­tin­ues. You start to real­ize how lit­tle you know about the world. When you read books and you’re like, Oh, well, obvi­ous­ly I need to know more about that. I bet­ter go read a book on that now. And

[00:17:41] Tony: Yeah. And just for curi and just out of curios­i­ty too.

[00:17:45] Cameron: Yeah. That’s I, well, I want to under­stand how the world works. I mean, I don’t under­stand the point of being here.

[00:17:52] Cameron: If you’re not spend­ing your time try­ing to fig­ure out how things work, that’s kind of the fun of it. Right. And yeah, before I die, I want to have fig­ured it out how every­thing works. I want to under­stand every­thing. Oh

[00:18:05] Tony: I’ve got, I’ve got no chance of doing that, but I’ll, I’ll be a lot bet­ter equipped at the end than I was at the begin­ning. That’s for sure. Grow­ing up from Bris­bane around a bunch of red­necks, that’s for sure.

[00:18:16] Cameron: Oh, you sound like Hunter.

[00:18:19] Tony: And, but for me, that was the out, that was the out. Books was my escape from nar­row mind­ed peo­ple. And they weren’t bad peo­ple, they were good peo­ple, but they just did­n’t have any sort of expo­sure to the rest of the world. their opin­ions were fed by the gov­ern­ment. Buy Rupert Mur­doch. Um, so yeah, so books were my out, but um, it’s not just find­ing out things too, it’s under­stand­ing human nature, it’s just the bril­liance of read­ing a good sto­ry some­times too.

[00:18:47] Cameron: Yes, absolute­ly.

[00:18:51] Tony: Just the oth­er night I was read­ing bits of Don Quixote. Because I,

[00:18:56] Cameron: I love Don Quixote.

[00:18:57] Tony: I’ve read some­where that it was con­sid­ered to be the first nov­el and I’m think­ing to myself, why was that the first nov­el? You know, and you go through and look at the sto­ry and, you know, it did have the form of the cur­rent nov­el. 1600s,

[00:19:12] Cameron: ter­rif­ic! Like, it holds up. So it was writ­ten like in, what, the 1300s, I think, from mem­o­ry?

[00:19:18] Tony: same time as Shake­speare, late 1500s, ear­ly

[00:19:20] Cameron: Right. I read it, oh, 10 years ago, 5 or 10 years ago, I don’t know, and just, Thor­ough­ly enjoyed it, like, such a great sto­ry that holds up so well. Alright, back to this list, num­ber six, secu­ri­ty. Um, one attendee asked why Berk­shire isn’t spend­ing its cash pile.

[00:19:42] Cameron: Buf­fett wrote in the 2008 Berk­shire share­hold­er let­ter, We nev­er want to count on the kind­ness of strangers in order to meet tomor­row’s oblig­a­tions. When forced to choose, I will not trade even a night’s sleep for the chance of extra prof­its. I like that one. You know, it gets back to this con­ver­sa­tion I think we were hav­ing last week about even invest­ing a small amount of your port­fo­lio in Bit­coin or what­ev­er

[00:20:09] Tony: great risk, unsafe at any speed.

[00:20:14] Cameron: like, why? I don’t want to have to, it’s enough that I have to, you know, I have to keep an eye on my sell alerts as it is. I don’t want to have to wade into those waters. It’s just not worth the, I don’t know, ener­gy. Maybe I should, maybe I need to. Make mon­ey quick­ly at my age. I don’t know. It just seems, I don’t know.

[00:20:39] Cameron: It just seems like a slip­pery slope and too much stress.

[00:20:43] Tony: it’s still the quick­est way to great wealth is slow­ly to accu­mu­late it. It’s, yeah, you could win Tes­la­do and the Power­ball tomor­row. That’s anoth­er way to do it. But you could also spend your life and deplete your bank account buy­ing tick­ets as well.

[00:20:58] Cameron: Yeah. I said, did you want to com­ment on the secu­ri­ty one?

[00:21:02] Tony: No, you read out the quote I was going to say.

[00:21:05] Cameron: All

[00:21:05] Tony: Great way of, great turn of phrase though, isn’t it? We don’t rely on the kind­ness of strangers. In oth­er words, we want to be in con­trol of invest­ing and we want to be sure of what hap­pens in the future with the com­pa­ny. We don’t want to have to rely on peo­ple down the track to bail us out.

[00:21:20] Cameron: you know where that’s from though, right? They’re quite.

[00:21:22] Tony: That’s street car name design, yeah. I read the play.

[00:21:27] Cameron: Of course you did.

[00:21:28] Tony: I did. Blanche DuBois.

[00:21:33] Cameron: I always rely on the kind­ness of strangers. Virtue7 Suc­ces­sion Plan­ning Apple Chief Exec­u­tive Tim Cook attend­ed the meet­ing and was held out as an exam­ple of suc­cess­ful cor­po­rate baton pass­ing.

[00:21:49] Tony: Yeah. It was a safe pair of hands, but it was­n’t real­ly Steve’s job, was it? No,

[00:21:56] Cameron: who is? Like, you know.

[00:21:58] Tony: Elon, Elon, they should have hand­ed it over to Elon. Hmm.

[00:22:04] Cameron: in 2011 was look­ing for a job or the right guy, but yeah, um, yeah, I like that. He, they’re talk­ing about Greg and Agit, um, as, you know, the, the han­dover and I like, um, Greg’s quote here sums up Berk­shires cul­ture. We treat our share­hold­ers as part­ners and our man­agers as own­ers. Isaac told me he might not want to dri­ve 8 hours to hear Abel and Jane speak, but he does not plan to sell the Berk­shire invest­ment that he will inher­it, my suc­ces­sion plan­ning at

[00:22:42] Tony: Hmm.

[00:22:44] Cameron: They seem to be sta­ble hands. I guess like Tim. I mean, Tim was def­i­nite­ly sta­ble hands and he’s increased the val­ue of the com­pa­ny, you know, nth fold since Steve died. Has­n’t exact­ly been an engine of inno­va­tion, but, um,

[00:23:00] Tony: no, there’s been a bit of a sna­fu with the lat­est iPad tele­vi­sion com­mer­cial, if you’ve seen that. The hydraulic

[00:23:07] Cameron: haven’t seen it, but I’ve seen the head­lines. And it sounds like they’ve closed a deal, the rumours are, last night with Ope­nAI for Ope­nAI to be on the next iPhone or the next iOS. Prob­a­bly as the Siri replace­ment. Um, or it’s play­ing some role, so That’ll, uh, that’ll be good. It’s a shame that they did­n’t build it them­selves, but hey, it’s Apple.

[00:23:30] Cameron: Num­ber eight, Virtue 8, Glob­al Cit­i­zen­ship. The meet­ing’s first ques­tion­er trav­eled from Hong Kong and asked if Berk­shire would be invest­ing more in Chi­na. Sev­er­al hailed from Ger­many. One young man made the trip from New Zealand, anoth­er from Malaysia. Pas­sion­ate Cana­di­an asked if Buf­fett would allo­cate more cap­i­tal north of the bor­der, and an Indi­an extolled the mer­its of his home mar­ket.

[00:23:52] Cameron: Um, so men­tions the fact that they do have glob­al invest­ments, even though most of it is in Amer­i­ca, but they felt that there was a bit of a glob­al con­nec­tion there. What did you make of that?

[00:24:04] Tony: Yeah, so that was­n’t includ­ed in the arti­cle, but I was tak­en by what War­ren said in answer to this ques­tion, I’ve been lis­ten­ing to the

[00:24:15] Tony: And he said some­thing, I’m para­phras­ing, he said some­thing like, even though we have invest­ed over­seas and we’ll do well with our invest­ments in Japan and our invest­ments in BYD in Chi­na, he likes invest­ing in the US because he knows the cul­ture and he knows the rules. And that just res­onat­ed with me because it’s kind of like my answer.

[00:24:35] Tony: To peo­ple when they ask me do I invest in US stocks, I say no, I invest in what I know and have a deep under­stand­ing of. I know the cul­ture, I know the peo­ple, I know the rules.

[00:24:46] Cameron: Yeah. Virtue num­ber nine, patri­o­tism. Buf­fett repeat­ed­ly stress­es his luck at hav­ing been born in Amer­i­ca and he did so here. He’s talk­ing about the 2020, uh, the, the author of this is talk­ing about the 2020 pan­dem­ic era share­hold­er let­ter where War­ren said in its brief 232 years of exis­tence there has been no incu­ba­tor for unleash­ing human poten­tial like Amer­i­ca.

[00:25:12] Cameron: Nev­er bet against Amer­i­ca. Xi Jin­ping might

[00:25:16] Tony: yeah, I was wait­ing for that. I won­der if you stack up the increase in GDP in Amer­i­ca ver­sus the increase in GDP in Chi­na, how’d that go?

[00:25:26] Cameron: Yeah.

[00:25:27] Tony: At least, yeah, any­way. Um, well I, what I took out of it was, um, Quite a bit fur­ther on, It is beyond arro­gance for Amer­i­can busi­ness­es or indi­vid­u­als to boast they have done the loan, Buf­fett once wrote, pre­dat­ing much of Berk­shire’s suc­cess to the Amer­i­can tail­wind.

[00:25:44] Tony: We want the U. S. gov­ern­ment to think we’re an asset and not a lia­bil­i­ty or a sup­pli­cant, said Buf­fett, allud­ing to times Berk­shire is able to pro­vide liq­uid­i­ty on favor­able terms. So what do you think? Again, para­phras­ing, what he was say­ing there is he’s hap­py to pay tax­es, always hap­py to pay tax­es. He thinks the tax rates are too low at the moment on cor­po­ra­tions in the U.

[00:26:04] Tony: S. and they should be pay­ing more, and he does­n’t like peo­ple or com­pa­nies who elim­i­nate their tax­a­tion oblig­a­tion in the U. S.

[00:26:12] Cameron: Hmm. Yes. Hmm. That’s, I mean, I think part of the prob­lem with the Amer­i­can myth of the self made per­son, the self made man, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, obvi­ous­ly it does­n’t exist. We’ve, we’ve talked about this before. I think we talked about it in the psy­chopath book, but, uh, you know, it does­n’t mat­ter who you are.

[00:26:32] Cameron: If you’re Elon Musk and, you know, you’ve, you’ve accom­plished a lot, but the schools that you went to, The roads that you dri­ve on were built by oth­er peo­ple, they’re kept clean by oth­er peo­ple, the food that you eat is grown, har­vest­ed, pre­pared by oth­er peo­ple. If you had to do all of that your­self, there’d be no time to build or run a busi­ness.

[00:26:54] Cameron: You are a mem­ber of a com­mu­ni­ty, you’re a mem­ber of a soci­ety where Every­one is play­ing a role to keep soci­ety func­tion­ing so you can have a busi­ness and you know, use your strengths to build some­thing, a prod­uct or pro­vide a ser­vice, but you can’t do it alone. You would­n’t be able to do it with all those oth­er peo­ple around you sup­port­ing you and sup­port­ing your busi­ness.

[00:27:16] Tony: And look, I agree with that, but I also get the fact that peo­ple like Elon or oth­er bil­lion­aires will rail against the red tape involved in being in busi­ness and the con­straints that gov­ern­ments can place along the way, but yeah, I mean, take those away at your per­il. If you want the wild west, you’ve got to accept that if you get shot in the ankle, no one’s going to be there to take you to hos­pi­tal, no sur­geon’s going to oper­ate on you, you’ve got to do it your­self.

[00:27:44] Tony: Sor­ry.

[00:27:45] Cameron: or you eat food that’s con­t­a­m­i­nat­ed and poi­soned and, you know, there’s no med­ical care for you or what­ev­er.

[00:27:52] Tony: Well, you get run over by a self dri­ving car, Mr. Musk.

[00:27:57] Cameron: Any­way, that’s that arti­cle. Thought it was, thought it was nice,

[00:28:01] Tony: was great. It was a real­ly good sum­ma­ry of the nice things about Berk­shire Hath­away’s AGM.

[00:28:07] Cameron: Not so nice news, Jim Simons, one of your heroes, passed away, or some­body you’ve read about and talked about.

[00:28:14] Tony: Yeah. I don’t know if he’s one of my heroes, but I don’t know a whole heap about him, real­ly. He’s been quite, um, yeah, he’s had a very low pro­file.

[00:28:22] Cameron: Yeah, which is inter­est­ing, right? He’s obvi­ous­ly was bril­liant, made a lot of mon­ey. He was the guy that had basi­cal­ly invent­ed font invest­ing.

[00:28:31] Tony: Mm hmm.

[00:28:32] Cameron: from MIT pro­fes­sor to mul­ti bil­lion­aire. His medal­lion fund had a 66 per­cent aver­age annu­al return for decades.

[00:28:40] Tony: Incred­i­ble,

[00:28:40] Cameron: Died, uh, this week at the age of 86 at his home in Man­hat­tan.

[00:28:46] Cameron: Did­n’t make it to Char­lie’s age, but, uh, 86 isn’t a bad innings.

[00:28:51] Tony: No, he was a chain smok­er, so he prob­a­bly should have gone a bit ear­li­er.

[00:28:58] Cameron: Well, there you go.

[00:29:00] Tony: used to, used to go into restau­rants and offices and say, I’ll pay the fines for smok­ing inside.

[00:29:06] Cameron: right. Wow. Um, so, you know, what are your thoughts on, I don’t know, quant invest­ing? Tony? Like, uh,

[00:29:19] Tony: Oh, look, I love it. I mean, I think we kind of, we’re a bit like a quan­tum investor our­selves. We use the data and down­load it. Um, one of the quotes I had from an arti­cle in The Fin today, kind of sum­ma­rizes that. I’ll see if I can find it and read it out. Um, his team, this is Simons team, would spot a poten­tial anom­aly in a mar­ket often in com­modi­ties and cur­ren­cies and then use his­tor­i­cal data and machine learn­ing to test its sta­tis­ti­cal sig­nif­i­cance and con­sis­ten­cy, which is kind of what we do, right?

[00:29:47] Tony: We get the data we’ve, well, I have any­way, spot­ted things which I think are salient to, um, point out good stocks and then, um, test­ed it and, um, yeah, when it worked, put it into prac­tice. It’s the same sort of thing. I mean, the Renais­sance nev­er came out and said what they did and the staff were always.

[00:30:09] Tony: Either hand­cuffed to the busi­ness and nev­er got out or were sworn to secre­cy. So they nev­er revealed what they did. There are, there are, you know, famous anec­dotes about what they did. Um, the ear­li­est one I can think of was cor­re­late between weath­er pat­terns and retail sales. So they would take posi­tions in Wal­mart.

[00:30:29] Tony: When there was hur­ri­canes off the coast of the US because they, they worked out that Wal­mart would sell out of bot­tled water and canned food and can­dles and nap­pies and things like that. And that was good for the share price. So yeah, those were kind of non tra­di­tion­al link­ages between data and, and what was hap­pen­ing to the share mar­ket that they, they pio­neered.

[00:30:50] Tony: But they had the smarts. I mean, quan­tum invest­ing is real­ly inter­est­ing and, and Wall Street in some ways is a favourite to answer for because it’s basi­cal­ly. Hoovered up all of the best and bright­est in research in areas like, you know, um, atom­ic research and, um, even, um, astro, astro research, uh, astro­nom­i­cal research, um, to, you know, pre­dict the move­ments and options as they decay and things like that.

[00:31:19] Tony: So, I’m not sure that was the best use of Sci­en­tif­ic research, but, um, but those peo­ple went to work for Wall Street and peo­ple like Simon and earned a lot of mon­ey. Um, so it’s just been an inter­est­ing evo­lu­tion in, in, in share invest­ing, I think, and Jim Simon pio­neered it.

[00:31:37] Cameron: you, you, I think you read a book about him a few years ago. Um, did you, you did­n’t learn any­thing in that the, you could apply to QAV because they did­n’t talk about the details.

[00:31:47] Tony: No, I did­n’t real­ly talk about the detail, oth­er than, you know, using sort of a fair­ly rigid sci­en­tif­ic approach to, to these things. Find some­thing, test it, make sure it’s, it’s not just an anom­aly that it’s going to repeat, it’s going to be con­sis­tent, that you can use it, and then do a lot of test­ing on it and then incor­po­rate it.

[00:32:10] Tony: As one part of, as one part of the process, I mean, part of the process that Jim Simons used was to have a lot of dif­fer­ent things going on at once. And part of the test­ing that they did was to make sure that if they adopt­ed a posi­tion here, it was­n’t going to negate a posi­tion there. So it was kind of build­ing a check­list or a matrix of dif­fer­ent met­rics to invest with.

[00:32:31] Cameron: Right.

[00:32:34] Tony: But also too, the oth­er quote, um, if I can find it quick­ly. He talked about the impor­tance of luck in what he did and a bit like Buf­fett, talked about the luck of, you know, grow­ing up where he did and get­ting an edu­ca­tion like he did, even though he was a bit of a prodi­gy, uh, maths prodi­gy, was a code break­er for the gov­ern­ment, um, helped to break some of Rus­si­a’s codes dur­ing the Cold War, uh, and then as a side hus­tle, sort of want­ed to look at soy­bean com­modi­ties and see if he could use what he was tin­ker­ing with in the, in the code break­ing side help­ing pre­dict the futures of soy­beans.

[00:33:10] Tony: And, um, I think one of the famous quotes is that he said that it’s, it’s so much eas­i­er to pre­dict the path of a comet than it is to pre­dict the, the price of a soy­bean con­tract. Um, but, but doing the sec­ond one is much more prof­itable. So, um, he put a lot down to luck and he said, he said that, uh, a lot of peo­ple blame bad things that hap­pen to them on luck.

[00:33:33] Tony: So they blame bad luck, but they nev­er flip it around and say if some­thing good hap­pens to them, it was actu­al­ly bad luck. Part­ly due to luck as well. So he always knew that and had it in mind when he was, um, invest­ing.

[00:33:46] Cameron: Reminds me of a quote from Mar­cus Aure­lius. I think I read recent­ly, said some­thing to the same effect. Uh, well, speak­ing of bad luck, FND, FINDY,

[00:34:00] Tony: Yeah.

[00:34:01] Cameron: FIND­Y’s share price col­lapsed sud­den­ly the oth­er day. Hmm,

[00:34:05] Tony: I had­n’t

[00:34:06] Cameron: became Became briefly a Rule 1 sell for me, but by the time I got around to sell­ing it, it had come back up again.

[00:34:15] Cameron: On the morn­ing of the 9th, it was trad­ing at about 3. 30. By the morn­ing of the 10th, it was trad­ing at 2. 81. And it’s now back up to 2. 99, but, uh, yeah, there was no announce­ments. I could­n’t see any­thing in Stock Doc­tor when I looked. Um, I just fig­ured it was a pulled pork curse, uh, but a

[00:34:41] Tony: How much is it up? It’s been up a lot since I think I did the pull of pork, it was 99 cents from mem­o­ry.

[00:34:46] Cameron: Well, that’s right. Yeah. It was delayed. Pulled pork. Went up by 300 per­cent then fell, you know, delayed. Um, peo­ple just found out that, uh, you did a pull pork on it. They were a bit slow. No, I don’t know. There’s still noth­ing in Stock Doc­tor in the announce­ment sec­tion since the 15th of April. So don’t know what’s going on there, but it was a big, big drop.

[00:35:09] Cameron: Um, my tar­di­ness to get around to sell­ing it paid off, but then FPR. Yeah. Today, uh, no. Last night issued their first half results, shares fell 6%. Uh, sum­ma­ry says new busi­ness writ­ings up 39% com­pared with pri­or com­par­a­tive peri­od or the PCP order pipeline remains ele­vat­ed at two and a half times, indexed to FY 2019 lev­els.

[00:35:42] Cameron: Assets under man­age­ment or financed A‑U-M-O‑F or moth. Of 2. 1 bil­lion up 10 per­cent com­pared to PCP, net oper­at­ing income, NOI. Pre EOL and pro­vi­sions of 76. 1 mil­lion up 1. 4 per­cent com­pared to PCP. End of lease income EOL of 35. 9 mil­lion up 1 per­cent to PCP. Net prof­it after tax exclud­ing amor­ti­za­tion, NAPATA.

[00:36:14] Cameron: 41.8 mil­lion down 4% com­pared to PCP cash EPS of 17.10 cents per share. Up 7% com­pared to PCP to, uh, sec­ond half, 2024 share buy­back of up to $27 mil­lion announced shares drop 6% and they are a rule one sell for the pos­si­bles port­fo­lio in light, but I haven’t got around to do any­thing about that yet.

[00:36:43] Cameron: But, um. What do you, what do you make of those num­bers, Tony?

[00:36:47] Tony: Yeah, I saw, I saw the arti­cle today, I think it was. And I also saw one of their com­peti­tors, Smart Group, did the same thing, released their results and the shares went down a bit. Not, not a whole heap. Um, I can’t remem­ber if it was Fleet Part­ners or Smart Group said that the New Zealand part of their busi­ness was doing poor­ly because the gov­ern­ment changed their EV, Sup­port Pack­ages.

[00:37:10] Tony: So, the inter­est­ing thing I found in the, in that arti­cle was that the new, for the new novat­ed leas­es, I think it was some­thing like 70 per­cent were elec­tric vehi­cles.

[00:37:22] Cameron: Wow!

[00:37:23] Tony: Yeah, and in Aus­tralia, that’s because there’s no FBT on elec­tric vehi­cles. So the gov­ern­men­t’s try­ing to sup­port that. New Zealand, I think, had some­thing sim­i­lar, but they with­drew it just recent­ly.

[00:37:33] Tony: And so the New Zealand busi­ness has­n’t done so well. So, I guess. What’s my thought? It pos­si­bly high­lights to peo­ple that if the gov­ern­ment does make a change to the rules that sup­port EVs, then the busi­ness might go back­wards. So it’s always ten­u­ous, I think, invest­ing in these com­pa­nies that rely on a rule in the gov­ern­ment to, um, to sup­port the busi­ness, because the rule could change and go the oth­er way.

[00:37:58] Tony: Um, but hav­ing said that, the num­bers are still rea­son­ably good. for these com­pa­nies and they’re still, they’re on the met­rics any­way, still high­ly investable.

[00:38:07] Cameron: Hmm, about get­ting pun­ished by the mar­kets for those, uh, results. Uh, tell you who’s not get­ting pun­ished today is Vysan. V Y S, have you ever done a pulled pork on Vysan?

[00:38:20] Tony: And I haven’t, I haven’t even heard of Vis­arn. Who’s Vis­arn?

[00:38:24] Cameron: Vice Unlim­it­ed, for­mer­ly MHM Met­als Lim­it­ed, oper­ates a hydro­log­i­cal drilling, dewa­ter­ing, and test pump­ing ser­vices busi­ness, and has locat­ed a num­ber of mine sites across West­ern Aus­tralia. Um, I hold them in, uh, one of the port­fo­lios, uh, the Stock Doc­tor Aus­tralia port­fo­lio. They jumped 14 per­cent today.

[00:38:52] Cameron: By the looks of it, uh, on a, an announce­ment that one of their sub­sidiaries, Vaisan Asset Man­age­ment, has entered into a joint resource agree­ment with the Car­ri­ara Abo­rig­i­nal Cor­po­ra­tion to do some­thing on their land. Um, uh, extract­ing and sell­ing sus­tain­able quan­ti­ties of water from iden­ti­fied and secured water resources on Car­ri­ara coun­try.

[00:39:19] Cameron: Um, So their share price, yeah, had a big bump today, and it’s up 94 per­cent since I added them to that port­fo­lio back in July last year, so it’s been a good one, one of the,

[00:39:34] Tony: okay. Yeah. I haven’t,

[00:39:35] Cameron: that I found in Stock Doc­tor, uh, Stock­o­pe­dia, sor­ry.

[00:39:39] Tony: I haven’t come across it. Um, and I just looked at it. Then the ADT is now 70, 000, but if it was up 94%, chances are the ADT was a lot low­er last year.

[00:39:49] Cameron: Prob­a­bly, but there you go. Well, that’s all my news sto­ries. Tony, what do you got on your list of news? What’s the news, Tony? Tony, what’s the news?

[00:40:00] Tony: Well, I just, I just had a chuck­le at a, an arti­cle I read about, um, Elon Musk, who said that War­ren Buf­fett should buy Tes­la stock, and the arti­cle says, here’s why he prob­a­bly nev­er will. And there’s a, um, so, yeah, Elon Musk has come out say­ing that War­ren Buf­fett should buy Tes­la, and, um, Berk­shire Hath­away does have a share­hold­ing in BYD, the Chi­nese com­pa­ny.

[00:40:24] Tony: So they’re not, um, they do have expo­sure in the indus­try, but the author of this arti­cle thought it was­n’t going to hap­pen. Buf­fett has already said that he does­n’t like the auto indus­try, say­ing it’s too tough. Munger, when he was alive, said it was, um, the CapEx costs were huge and there was huge risks involved.

[00:40:42] Tony: So they weren’t real­ly inter­est­ed in buy­ing into the auto indus­try, oth­er than BYD, which was a spe­cif­ic play.

[00:40:50] Cameron: Has­n’t Elon Musk said some fair­ly harsh things about War­ren Buf­fett in the past?

[00:40:55] Tony: he has.

[00:40:56] Cameron: He said like, he has­n’t built any­thing. He has­n’t invent­ed any­thing.

[00:41:01] Tony: Yep. Old school investor. Yeah, that’s the only, that’s the only arti­cle I had, um, had a, had a cou­ple of ques­tions there, or one ques­tion. Want to cov­er that now? Yeah, so this came from Mar­cus, um, via Face­book. The ques­tion is, Hi Tony, have been think­ing about sell trig­gers for years. Aside from rule one and three point sell lines, have you looked at ongo­ing review of qual­i­ty score on exist­ing hold­ings?

[00:41:31] Tony: I under­stand that mar­ket sen­ti­ment will account for poor results. via the stock price, but my thought is a declin­ing qual­i­ty should also fac­tor, i. e. if we would not buy into a stock because of qual­i­ty, then also we should sell out? Appre­ci­ate your thoughts. So yeah, it’s a good, good ques­tion. Um, I have always tak­en the view that dete­ri­o­rat­ing qual­i­ty will be reflect­ed in a dete­ri­o­rat­ing share price and our sell trig­gers will take care of that.

[00:41:57] Tony: Um, I So I haven’t specif­i­cal­ly looked at a low­er­ing of the qual­i­ty score as a sell trig­ger, but it’s worth research­ing, so I’ll add it to the list. Or feel free, Mar­cus your­self, to come up with some infor­ma­tion about it. Um, the oth­er thing that’s always cloud­ed the issue is that I’ve found that, at least with the QAV score in total, it can go down quite a bit.

[00:42:21] Tony: And the share price can keep ris­ing, and one of the rea­sons why the QAV score goes down is because the share price is ris­ing. So the com­pa­ny may well still have good oper­at­ing cash flow and oth­er met­rics, but because we divide that into the share price, um, to get a price to cash flow, uh, as the share price ris­es, the QAV score drops.

[00:42:43] Tony: Um, and I haven’t found it, um, Um, with any degree of con­fi­dence to be a good indi­ca­tor to sell the stock, because it’s kind of the reverse of what you want to do. You want to get in ahead of the herd when the met­rics look good, and then as the share price ris­es, hold on, and then have some oth­er rea­son for sell­ing the stock, like it’s a rule one or a three point trend line sell.

[00:43:03] Tony: But yeah, no, great, great ques­tion, and, um, if I can do some research on it, I will.

[00:43:10] Cameron: So, I mean, what sort of met­rics would you even look at to deter­mine a fall in qual­i­ty? Would it be, I don’t know,

[00:43:21] Tony: Well, some of the qual­i­ty scores are around,

[00:43:22] Cameron: increas­ing equi­ty?

[00:43:24] Tony: yeah, some of the qual­i­ty scores are around val­ue. So, that may or may not be use­ful. Like, for exam­ple, if it’s, if it was trad­ing at the low­est PEE in three years, and then next half the PEE went up, it still might not be, even though that, means the qual­i­ty score goes down it still may not be a good enough rea­son to sell the stock because it’s you know the busi­ness might be boom­ing which is why the PE is up because either the share price is up or it’s mak­ing more in its earn­ing side I think so um but areas that might be of con­cern would be poten­tial­ly the exit of an own­er founder if that depress­es the share price uh if the div­i­dend yield goes down but again that could be the share price ris­ing so I’ve got to go through and unpick You know, which, which of the met­rics are going to be impact­ed by a ris­ing share price ver­sus those which are just stand alone.

[00:44:16] Tony: And a lot of them are relat­ed to the share price in some way, so it’ll be a few key met­rics we have to look at.

[00:44:29] Cameron: Well, hope­ful­ly soon we can just ask Chat­G­PT to fig­ure that out for us.

[00:44:34] Tony: Yeah, I, I, I thought, So one of my shares, Grain­Corp, had a down­grade last week and I thought I’d just check out this Chat­G­PT. And I said, I typed in, should, should I sell my Grain­Corp shares? And it came back with, here are all the things you should take into account before sell­ing a share. It’s just gener­ic advice.

[00:44:53] Tony: And I thought, nah, I’ve still got a bit to go.

[00:44:57] Cameron: Yeah, well, yes, it’s prob­a­bly not the right way to approach it. Yeah, it’s not a, it’s, it’s not the, the whiz, the great and won­der­ful whiz. It’s, uh, it reads stuff and then tells you what it’s read. There’s a new ver­sion was launched today. I don’t know if you saw any of the media about that this morn­ing.

[00:45:16] Tony: No.

[00:45:19] Cameron: They did a launch last night, uh, of a new ver­sion called 4. 0 for Omni GPT 4. 0. And, um, it’s full on mul­ti modal, so you can ask a ques­tion via text like you could before, or pho­tos, or voice, but now video, you can just have your, the video cam­era play­ing into it and say what are you look­ing at, what are you see­ing, what’s going on, and it can, You know, look at the video gen­er­at­ed by your cam­era and talk to you about it and inter, you know, tell you what’s going on, um, what you’re see­ing, whether it’s some­thing on a screen or some­thing in the real world.

[00:46:01] Cameron: What’s

[00:46:01] Tony: what, so if I’m look­ing at a video and can’t work out what it is, Chat­G­PT is going to tell me, is it?

[00:46:08] Cameron: Yes. Or, you know, there was, um, guy who runs Khan Acad­e­my Sale. Khan was, um, did a demo video with his son who looks like he’s about. 12 or 13. And they, they were shar­ing a screen on their iPad with GPT where they had a tri­an­gle drawn and they were like, we need to keep, we need to work out the, um, angles in this tri­an­gle.

[00:46:34] Cameron: Don’t tell him the answers, but tell him how to work it out. And it can see not only the image, but as they’re draw­ing on it, they can see what they’re draw­ing and, you know, can see how he’s work­ing it out and can com­ment and inter­act with him real time on, um, what he’s writ­ing on the screen. Tony’s got this skep­ti­cal smile on his face, lis­ten­ers.

[00:46:57] Tony: Well, I can see the edu­ca­tion­al, you know, uses for

[00:46:59] Cameron: to impress,

[00:47:00] Tony: But

[00:47:01] Cameron: hard to impress this

[00:47:02] Tony: what’s going through my mind is I’m going to show a video of a deep­fake to Chat­G­PT 4. 0 and say, uh, Hey, do you rec­og­nize this? And it’s going to go, Yep, I made it. They’re my thumbprints.

[00:47:15] Cameron: Well, hope­ful­ly that’s one of the things we’ll be able to do. They also did a demo of Two peo­ple, uh, sit­ting in front of a phone, one speak­ing in Ital­ian, actu­al­ly it was the C, the Chief Tech­nol­o­gy Offi­cer, the first one I saw of, um, Ope­nAI, Mira Mirati, who’s Ital­ian. She was speak­ing Ital­ian to it. It was trans­lat­ing her Ital­ian into Eng­lish and then the oth­er guy would speak Eng­lish to it and it would trans­late it back to Ital­ian in near real time, like with no delay, just as a uni­ver­sal trans­la­tor.

[00:47:51] Tony: The Babelfish.

[00:47:52] Cameron: The Babelfish. Yeah. So, um, it’s incred­i­ble to me that we’re here already. You know, I was say­ing to the boys the oth­er day, it was blow­ing my mind think­ing that the first per­son­al com­put­er, Apple’s first per­son­al com­put­er came out in 75. 5 or 76, I think. And we are almost 50 years since then. And now we have an AI on a per­son­al com­put­er you can put in your back pock­et.

[00:48:25] Cameron: That’s not bad for 50 years from the first per­son­al com­put­er. And I was think­ing this morn­ing, I was talk­ing to Fox on the way to school about Edi­son and Tes­la and elec­tric­i­ty. In a lit­tle over a cen­tu­ry, we’ve gone from elec­tric­i­ty to an AI in your back pock­et. That it’s like, like it’s an insane lev­el of progress and advance­ment in 100 years.

[00:48:55] Cameron: Like mind bog­gling.

[00:48:57] Tony: Yeah, and the mobile phone has much more com­put­ing pow­er than was used to launch man to the moon in 69. So, yeah.

[00:49:05] Cameron: Yeah.

[00:49:06] Tony: Well, you think about the last hun­dred years. I mean, we used to go to the movies in Cana­da. One of the local dis­trib­u­tors would have the mon­tage of the his­to­ry of flight. Like we have the Wright Broth­ers, before the movies would start, it’d be their pro­duc­tion com­pa­ny or the dis­tri­b­u­tion com­pa­ny tag.

[00:49:20] Tony: It’d be like, from Wright Broth­ers through biplanes, you know, through World War II planes, through the first jets, to the Bell XU 1, to the SR 71 Black­bird, to the Space Shut­tle, just like, all hap­pened with­in 70 years. It was incred­i­ble.

[00:49:36] Cameron: Mmm. Oh, Fox and I were talk­ing about the Wright Broth­ers on the way to school this morn­ing, and I was telling him that, you know, before they had their first suc­cess­ful flight in 1903 or 1906, what­ev­er it was, gen­er­al con­sen­sus was that humans would nev­er be able to fly. Build a machine that could fly.

[00:49:55] Cameron: I said, that’s been true with most tech­nolo­gies. Peo­ple say it’ll nev­er hap­pen. And then it hap­pens and they go, well, of course, no, we knew that would hap­pen, but then the next thing won’t hap­pen. And then that hap­pens and peo­ple go, Oh yeah, well, of course they could do that, but keep chang­ing the goal­posts of what could nev­er hap­pen.

[00:50:14] Cameron: Like we’ve been talk­ing about that with AI for a long time. Um, with some­one recent­ly, the boys the oth­er day actu­al­ly, Tay­lor was argu­ing with some­one online and Hunter and I were work­shop­ping his, his respons­es. But I was say­ing, I remem­ber when gen­er­al con­sen­sus was com­put­ers would nev­er be able to beat a good chess play­er.

[00:50:36] Tony: Oh,

[00:50:36] Cameron: No, a chess play­er. You know, back in the, back in the 90s, ear­ly 90s, gen­er­al con­sen­sus was they’ll nev­er be able to build a com­put­er that could beat a Good chess play­er. And then Deep Blue beat Kas­parov and then they were like, well, okay, it beat him, but it was cus­tom built to do that. And, you know, it had humans behind the scenes tweak­ing But­tons and levers and this and that and the oth­er.

[00:51:02] Cameron: Now we just take it for grant­ed that, uh, Stock­fish on an iPhone can beat any grand­mas­ter in the world. They can beat Mag­nus Carlsen because that’s how com­put­ers work. It’s just a mat­ter of fact now that com­put­ers can beat even the great­est genius­es of chess that there are. So, yeah. You

[00:51:22] Tony: Does that demo­ti­vate you to play chess? That’s just real­ly a whole series of strate­gies and pre thought out plans that you need to apply. Yeah,

[00:51:32] Cameron: use chess to get, uh, use com­put­ers, I mean, to get bet­ter at chess and chess has changed a lot as a result of that, but of course what Mag­nus does now is, I know we, we’re not in after hours yet, but, um, there was just the World Blitz tour­na­ment over the last cou­ple of days, which is three minute games and Mag­nus played in it.

[00:51:56] Cameron: And he was, I think in the last day, he was like two and a half points behind and he need­ed to win all 10 games that he was due to play that day to win the tour­na­ment. And he just came in and just start­ed play­ing wild and crazy shit that no one had ever seen before because you can’t pre­pare for it with a com­put­er. And then he just crushed every­one, like embar­rass­ing­ly crushed them, you know, just, you know, because. Yeah, you can’t pre­pare for just wild and crazy shit that you’ve nev­er, no one’s ever played before at that lev­el, but Mag­nus is good enough that he can just play that stuff and fig­ure it out as he goes.

[00:52:39] Cameron: Any­way, what else, Tony? IR, uh, you got­ta do a pulled pork, but not on IRI, because Tony’s got this big sob sto­ry about Stock Doc­tor Data.

[00:52:51] Tony: this is my third pulled pork for today, so it’s not going to be on IRI, it’s not going to be on ResMed, even though I’ve got most of the way through both of those reports and then dis­cov­ered that there was a dis­crep­an­cy in the data. So I guess the shout out to peo­ple is be care­ful with, um, Research at the moment and dou­ble check things.

[00:53:12] Tony: So for exam­ple, the checks I’ve been using, um, which seems to be where I get tripped up, um, and this is includ­ing in our own buy lists, um, which use Stock Doc­tor data, check to see that the shares on issue equal anoth­er source. So, what I’ve been doing is if you’re using Excel and have the sub­scrip­tion ser­vice, you can use Stock His­to­ry and you can quite eas­i­ly see what the num­ber of shares on issue is and just dou­ble check that against Stock Doc­tor.

[00:53:47] Tony: There might be a slight dis­crep­an­cy if they’ve issued shares recent­ly, but gen­er­al­ly if they’re close that’s pret­ty good, but some are glar­ing­ly dif­fer­ent. That’s the first thing to check, and the sec­ond thing is, um, If you’re doing a down­load, at least using the spread­sheet that I put out, you’ll see that Stock Doc­tor will record their price to oper­at­ing cash­flow, which I use as a check against the one that we cal­cu­late.

[00:54:10] Tony: And I’m see­ing some irreg­u­lar­i­ties there. And at this stage, I don’t know who’s right. Cause I’ve gone back and rec­on­ciled in ResMed’s case any­way, back to their U. S. fil­ings, and it looks like our spread­sheet’s right, but if you look at the Stock Doc­tor price to oper­at­ing cash flow, it’s very dif­fer­ent, so I’m not sure what’s going on, and peo­ple should be aware of that, and be just, you know, use a bit of extra due dili­gence before they um, put their hard earned mon­ey into an invest­ment.

[00:54:37] Tony: Uh, so any­way, that’s a long way of say­ing that I’m doing a pull talk on boom logis­tics. And it actu­al­ly took me a while after I elim­i­nat­ed Inte­gra­tive Research and ResMed for the least pecu­liar­i­ties in their data. Um, it took a while to find some­thing to talk about that I had­n’t talked about before. So I guess there’s a ques­tion for our lis­ten­ers and feel free to come back with indi­vid­ual answers.

[00:55:04] Tony: But do we want, um, do lis­ten­ers want me to stick to stocks which have, um, Uh, rea­son­able sort of mar­ket cap, uh, cause boom logis­tics does­n’t, it’s quite small, I think it’s mar­ket cap’s around 50 or 60 mil­lion dol­lars, 58 mil­lion dol­lars, so it’s rea­son­ably small, uh, so it’s a small ADT stock which won’t suit a lot of peo­ple, um, or do, or would peo­ple pre­fer me to go back and redo larg­er cap stocks that, um, I have touched on a cou­ple, a cou­ple of years ago, but are now back on the buy list, so like a new media or some­thing like that.

[00:55:38] Tony: So let us know what you pre­fer. Um, can do both, but you know, hav­ing done this for five years, we’ve cov­ered off a lot of Pulled porks on a lot of com­pa­nies. So, um, I will start repeat­ing myself or be forced into, um, doing small­er mar­ket cap com­pa­nies or, um, poten­tial­ly non blist com­pa­nies. So stocks, which are just below the B list in terms of a QAV score is anoth­er option.

[00:56:00] Tony: So let me know your thoughts peo­ple or keep re request­ing stocks to do, which I can do as well. Any­way, today’s on Boom Logis­tics. Um, it’s a small a DT stock. Boom. Logis­tics is a provider of. In their terms, lift­ing solu­tions. Basi­cal­ly, they hire out cranes. I love some of the mar­ket­ing that goes around putting

[00:56:21] Cameron: Bar­ry and Stan

[00:56:22] Tony: bar­ri­ers down.

[00:56:24] Tony: Yeah.

[00:56:25] Cameron: yeah, I

[00:56:26] Tony: Inte­gra­tive research was a beau­ty. I can’t remem­ber what inte­gra­tive research com­pa­ny descrip­tion was, but it had noth­ing to do with what they do. It was just, you know, to pro­vide great solu­tions or some­thing like that. So it’s just sil­ly. Um, any­way, So Boom Logis­tics, they hire out cranes, what they call trav­el tow­ers, which took me a while to real­ize that’s a crane on a truck, called a trav­el tow­er.

[00:56:49] Tony: And they, you know, have oth­er types of cranes which give you access to high, uh, instal­la­tions like wind tur­bines. So essen­tial­ly they are a crane com­pa­ny. They have the largest crane hire fleet in Aus­tralia. Their major clients are often in the min­ing sec­tor but they do also do Um, work on trans­mis­sion lines, uh, tel­co line work, wind farm instal­la­tions, and obvi­ous­ly work in the con­struc­tion and infra­struc­ture indus­tries.

[00:57:20] Tony: Based in Mel­bourne, and I did notice when I was doing my research that Collins Street, uh, Asset Man­age­ment, our old friends from Michael Gold­berg’s? Gold­stein’s? Michael Gold­berg’s busi­ness? Berg, thank you. Um, Uh, have, have a 12 per­cent stake in the com­pa­ny. So they’ve got­ten in there ahead of us, but, uh, they’re a val­ue investor, just like we are.

[00:57:42] Tony: Um, and they actu­al­ly have a cur­rent, cur­rent­ly have a share buy­back under­way too, which is, um, prob­a­bly a good thing for the share price. Uh, so that’s, that’s the com­pa­ny, um, on the num­bers side of the thing, the AUT is only 22, 000. So it’s only going to suit a small posi­tion in peo­ple’s port­fo­lios. I’m doing the analy­sis at a price of 13.

[00:58:02] Tony: 8 cents. There’s no con­sen­sus tar­get for this com­pa­ny, which I like. It means we can get in before the, um, the big­ger, uh, peo­ple do. Uh, 13. 8 cents is above IV1, which is only 4 cents. And because we have no con­sen­sus tar­get, we don’t have an IV2, but, uh, 13. 8 cents is almost half what the net equi­ty per share of 26 cents is.

[00:58:27] Tony: So it’s pret­ty unusu­al to see us buy­ing a com­pa­ny for half its, um, net equi­ty per share. So it scores well for that. And obvi­ous­ly it scores for. Um, being less than book plus 30 per­cent, which is 33 cents per share. Uh, it does­n’t pay a yield, um, and if they’re putting mon­ey into a share buy­back, I’m gonna guess that’s their way of, uh, help­ing share­hold­ers with excess cap­i­tal.

[00:58:48] Tony: Uh, Stock Doc­tor finan­cial health and trend is strong and steady, so it’s, it’s good from the, from the finan­cial met­rics point of view. The prop cap on this com­pa­ny is only 1. 92 times, so we are buy­ing this for a, um, You know, a very quick pay­back in terms of the cash flow that’s com­ing in. Don’t see that very often.

[00:59:10] Tony: Uh, there is a direc­tor who holds, um, 14. 2 per­cent of the com­pa­ny. A chap by the name of Steven Groves. He became a direc­tor in 2020 and, uh, owns a com­pa­ny or owned a com­pa­ny called Grove Group. One of the issues with a com­pa­ny like this and some of the ones you men­tioned before, like Fen­di, is that they’re small and they’re not cov­ered in the finan­cial press.

[00:59:32] Tony: So we’re not. You know, we don’t find out a lot about what goes on with them, um, out­side of look­ing at their num­bers, real­ly, and their annu­al reports, so I’m guess­ing that Grove Group may have been an acqui­si­tion because Grove Group had kind of a relat­ed, um, busi­ness to this, but any­way, he’s still sit­ting on the board since 2020, and he has 14.

[00:59:52] Tony: 2 per­cent of the stock, so even though he was­n’t a founder, I’m still going to score this for hav­ing an own­er founder because he’s bring­ing a fair bit of expe­ri­ence and has his mon­ey tied up in the com­pa­ny. PE isn’t the low­est in three years, so we can’t score it on that. It does­n’t have con­sis­tent­ly increas­ing equi­ty, so we can’t score it on that.

[01:00:11] Tony: But over­all, on the things we can score, we have 10 out of 12, or 80%, for the qual­i­ty score. Uh, and giv­en the low Prop­Caf, we have a QAV score of 0. 43. Uh, on the pro side of things, I think the fact that Collins Street are invest­ed is a good sign. They, they would have done a lot of due dili­gence on the com­pa­ny, um, and, uh, they have 12 per­cent of the stock.

[01:00:33] Tony: Um, the oth­er inter­est­ing thing about that is that, you know, if you own 12 per­cent of a small ADT stock, you’re not going to be able to get it out quick­ly. So they must have, you know, con­vinced them­selves this com­pa­ny has a future. Um, and they’re going to be there for the long term. So that’s a pos­i­tive, I think.

[01:00:49] Tony: Um, good num­bers, good met­rics. We’re buy­ing it at, um, less than two times Prop­Caf. And a lot of the busi­ness is in the min­ing area. So, um, that’s an area which is strong in Aus­tralia and fac­ing lots of tail­winds. Um, on the con side of things, it is a small cap stock. So, um, You know, I have found in the past that small cap stocks don’t have the sort of buffers to ride out of any sort of down­turn in their indus­try.

[01:01:17] Tony: They tend to take it pret­ty rough if things turn down. And there’s also lim­it­ed use, which I said, so they go against invest­ing in a small cap like this. I was­n’t able to pick out Pick up what the uti­liza­tion rate was for their, um, their hire equip­ment, which is going to be an impor­tant thing for a com­pa­ny like this, because I’m assum­ing they’ve leased or pur­chased the cranes that they then rent out to, um, to, uh, busi­ness­es and, uh, the uti­liza­tion rate’s going to be an impor­tant met­ric.

[01:01:47] Tony: So, um, if some­one’s inter­est­ed in research­ing this com­pa­ny, that’d be a met­ric I’d be look­ing for in their annu­al reports. But yeah, all in all, have a look, um, good num­bers for Boom Logis­tics.

[01:01:58] Cameron: Just ask­ing Chat­G­PT. So tell me what you know about Boom Logis­tics recent finan­cial report.

[01:02:06] Cameron: Boom Logis­tics recent finan­cial report for FY 2023 shows mixed results. While they achieved a rev­enue increase of 8. 3 per­cent to 187. 3 mil­lion, dri­ven by growth in sec­tors like renew­able ener­gy and infra­struc­ture, the com­pa­ny report­ed a net loss after tax of 5. 5 bil­lion. 5 mil­lion. How­ev­er, the net loss points to chal­lenges such as increased oper­at­ing expens­es and a high­ly com­pet­i­tive mar­ket.

[01:02:31] Cameron: For more detailed finan­cial data and con­text, you can view their lat­est annu­al report on Boom Logis­tics Investor and Media Cen­ter. Please open your app to see this link.

[01:02:41] Tony: No, very good.

[01:02:42] Cameron: Do you have any ques­tions you want to ask it about Boom Logis­tics or its indus­try?

[01:02:46] Tony: Oh, no, I don’t think so. I think I’ve done enough research on boom logis­tics.

[01:02:50] Cameron: Tell me what you know about Tony Kynas­ton from the

[01:02:53] Cameron: Tony Kynas­ton is an expe­ri­enced investor who shares his knowl­edge on val­ue invest­ing through the pod­cast. He focus­es on the QAV sys­tem, which stands for qual­i­ty at val­ue.

[01:03:03] Cameron: This sys­tem involves eval­u­at­ing stocks based on spe­cif­ic finan­cial met­rics to iden­ti­fy under­val­ued com­pa­nies with strong fun­da­men­tals. Tony and his co host Cameron Reil­ly dis­cuss var­i­ous invest­ment strate­gies, mar­ket trends, and pro­vide prac­ti­cal advice for lis­ten­ers look­ing to improve their invest­ing skills.

[01:03:23] Cameron: They also ana­lyze dif­fer­ent com­pa­nies and sec­tors to offer insights into mak­ing informed Formed invest­ment deci­sions. For more infor­ma­tion and to lis­ten to episodes, you can vis­it qav podcast.com au. Please open your app to see this link.

[01:03:37] Tony: Chat­G­PT just say um, as it was talk­ing?

[01:03:42] Cameron: Yes.

[01:03:43] Tony: Real­ly?

[01:03:44] Cameron: Oh yeah. So the inter­est­ing thing. Got it. Uh, so if there’s any­thing else spe­cif­ic you’d like to know about Tony Kta, the QA.

[01:03:52] Tony: Yeah. Ask, ask it if I should sell my Grand Corp shares.

[01:03:57] Cameron: I just shut it down. Um, yeah, the real­ly inter­est­ing thing about the voice com­po­nent of GPT is it is incred­i­bly real­is­tic. It paus­es, it says um and uh, and the ver­sion that they released today, 4. 0, also has var­i­ous lev­els of, Emote built into it. So one of the demo videos they did, a guy asked it to read it, read a chil­dren’s bed­time sto­ry.

[01:04:27] Cameron: And it start­ed and said, hold on, put more emo­tion into it. So it got more and it goes, no, no, even more like, give me a crazy lev­el of emo­tion. And it real­ly amped it up and. You know, and then it’s, no, then he said, do it in a sing song voice. And it’s sang the whole thing. Then he said, do it in a robot voice.

[01:04:45] Cameron: That had start­ed speak­ing like this. But one of the hilar­i­ous things about it was like the Tur­ing test you men­tioned before, like every sci­ence fic­tion film you go back and watch now from the 70s, 80s, 90s, Star Wars, you know, for exam­ple, R2 D2, the way it talks in bleeps and bloops, it’s like, well, why isn’t it just, you Speak­ing in as a lan­guage, every lan­guage chat, GPT, we’ve had AI for a year and it can speak every lan­guage flu­ent­ly in a ful­ly human­ized voice like sci-fi movies just com­plete­ly suck.

[01:05:22] Cameron: C3, C3 PO’s not too bad, but every oth­er, every oth­er com­put­er sys­tem and robot. How is okay? How pass­es C3 PO pass­es? Every­thing else sucks. And it’s the same with the Tur­ing test. Like, for 50 years, we thought the Tur­ing test was gonna be real­ly hard to beat, and then we just blew past it. It was like, oh, what was that?

[01:05:41] Cameron: What did you, what was that? Oh, we just ran over the Tur­ing test. Like, every, like, most peo­ple in AI cir­cles now will say that. The hard thing about the Tur­ing test now is it’s too easy to pick which one is the AI because it’s like far too smart. Like it’s not hard for it to imper­son­ate a human except you would have to dumb down the AI in most cas­es for it to, um, trick you into think­ing it was the human that was answer­ing the

[01:06:11] Tony: Yeah, maybe that’s why, maybe that’s why R2 D2 speaks some bleeps and blurps, because he, it’s just, it’s beneath him talk­ing Eng­lish to peo­ple.

[01:06:20] Cameron: They speak Eng­lish to him but, you know, he’s not going to speak it to them. They all seem to under­stand him though, which is, yeah.

[01:06:26] Tony: Yeah.

[01:06:27] Cameron: Alright, let’s get on to some ques­tions if you’re ready.

[01:06:30] Tony: I am.

[01:06:31] Cameron: Jim, I would be inter­est­ed in Tony’s thoughts on Life360, recent­ly came under the buy list, QAV score 0. 11. Recent­ly bought into 360 as I thought it was an inter­est­ing com­pa­ny and how­ev­er it is now look­ing to IPO in the US, will remain list­ed in Aus­tralia.

[01:06:50] Cameron: Despite what looks like good results, the mar­ket has­n’t react­ed well, cur­rent­ly down 8%. After read­ing prop­er­ly, there is an earn­ings loss guid­ance. Of between 8 mil­lion USD and 13 mil­lion USD in 2024.

[01:07:05] Tony: Well, the first thing, Jim, is apolo­gies. I think this is one of the data mis­takes we’ve been talk­ing about. Um, in the buy list, I think, I think 360 was there and we picked it up our­selves last week or the week before and took it out before we pub­lished, um, but per­haps, Jim, if you’re doing your own down­loads, you did­n’t, but, uh, in my recent down­load, it has a QAV score of 0.

[01:07:27] Tony: 01, and this is almost like an anti QAV stock, it’s a gross stock. It does­n’t make any mon­ey, nev­er has made mon­ey as far as I can see. Um, hav­ing said that, it’s, even though it’s down 8 per­cent recent­ly, it’s had a huge run up in the last 12 months. Um, for peo­ple who don’t know this, this com­pa­ny, it’s uh, It allows peo­ple to track their fam­i­ly mem­bers on their phones to find out if they’re home from school safe­ly or back from the dance or what­ev­er.

[01:08:02] Tony: And it has a whole range of sub­scrip­tion pack­ages, from a free one through to pay­ing for more infor­ma­tion and stor­ing data for longer. Hav­ing said that, I’ve nev­er real­ly liked the busi­ness mod­el because I can’t see how it’s dif­fer­ent from oth­er busi­ness­es. Um, an Apple tag or the track my phone app that you get for free with, with Apple.

[01:08:24] Tony: Um, I’m sure I haven’t researched it well enough because it’s, um, one of the top 50 free apps in the U S and it’s a big thing in the U S, um, to use this app. I could­n’t see a val­ue propo­si­tion that was win­ning when I had to look at it years ago, cause it’s been around for a while and it’s now trad­ing at 90 times Prop­Caf accord­ing to the down­load I did today.

[01:08:44] Tony: So, um, It’s some­thing I would­n’t nor­mal­ly look at or rec­om­mend, um, but hav­ing said that, it’s had a great run recent­ly. As to the lat­est down­turn, uh, they are talk­ing about list­ing in on the NASDAQ to try and improve the, um, the share price because they believe they’re being under­val­ued on the ASX and that they have lots of US sub­scribers who would like to invest direct­ly in the US.

[01:09:11] Tony: And that’s been received mixed with mixed, um. Emo­tions by the invest­ment com­mu­ni­ty in Aus­tralia. Um, but I guess it’s a clas­sic play by some of these com­pa­nies to, you know, they often think list­ing in a NASDAQ is bet­ter for the share price. And so they do it, um, with no nec­es­sar­i­ly real sci­ence behind that.

[01:09:30] Tony: Just, that’s anoth­er way of try­ing to keep the share price up or they’re los­ing mon­ey. So, um, yeah, look, Jim, sor­ry if you bought this because you thought it was a buy based on the data. There is data prob­lems at the moment. Um, but hav­ing said that, you know, if in the past when I’ve bought things because of data prob­lems and I’ve gen­er­al­ly just held them until they become a rule one or a 3PTL sell.

[01:09:52] Tony: Um, so I would treat it, if it was me, I would treat it that way. Do

[01:09:57] Cameron: through our buy lists. It was­n’t. List, it was­n’t in our buy list, uh, that we pub­lished this week or last week. The week before it was, but I high­light­ed it as a poten­tial data prob­lem. so yeah, I don’t know when Jim bought into it, but, uh, there you go. By the way, just on the Stock Doc­tor stuff, I was telling Tony off air that I got a phone call from one of the account reps at Stock Doc­tor on Fri­day after­noon and said, how’s it going?

[01:10:28] Cameron: And I said, not good! Your data sucks! And, uh, you haven’t put out any announce­ment that I’m aware of to your mem­ber base say­ing, ooh, be care­ful, we’ve got a lot of data integri­ty prob­lems. Um, and I’ve been pick­ing them up and email­ing your peo­ple, Vic­tor, and telling our mem­bers to be care­ful. But it should be com­ing from you.

[01:10:52] Cameron: You should be warn­ing peo­ple that there are data issues and you haven’t done it. You know, I’m wor­ried what that’s going to do to your brand. And he was like, Oh, okay. I was like, sor­ry, you prob­a­bly did­n’t expect this in a 3. 30 on a Fri­day after­noon, and I know it’s not your fault, but, uh, I just want­ed to give you some hon­est feed­back any­way.

[01:11:11] Cameron: Um, I think every­one should be con­tact­ing Stock Doc­tor. If you’re a Stock Doc­tor mem­ber, shoot your account rep an email and say what’s going on with your data integri­ty, your data qual­i­ty, because there’s a whole bunch of prob­lems and I don’t know if Jim, um, got caught up in this or invest­ed in it for oth­er rea­sons, but, um, you know, there are prob­a­bly Stock Doc­tor mem­bers out there invest­ing in stocks because they think it’s So, you know, it pass­es their met­rics and, um, it’s dodgy data.

[01:11:45] Cameron: So, um, every­one shoot them an email.

[01:11:48] Tony: do we still have Tim Lin­col­n’s or Ken Treen’s email address? Because I’ll shoot some­thing through to them with some exam­ples.

[01:11:56] Cameron: Yeah, I do. I can for­ward all the exam­ples that I’ve got for you too. I’m not sure if it’s get­ting to him or not. Uh, all right. So that’s Jim. Thank you, Tony. Nick. Nick, uh, asked, could you please recap the rules around a Josephine if we own or are about to buy a stock? Do we sell a stock if it becomes a Josephine and hold off buy­ing if it’s on our buy list?

[01:12:22] Tony: No, we don’t sell if we already hold it. So, Josephine is a hold, but we don’t buy it. So, you’re right in the sec­ond part of your ques­tion there, Nick. So, basi­cal­ly what it means is that a stock is above its buy price on our graph, but it has a recent down­turn. So, um, gen­er­al­ly speak­ing, it’s less than the clos­ing price of the month before, but we also now put in a sec­ond buy line on the bread lat­er, which gives us con­fi­dence that it’s um, it’s going to break, you know, it’s going to be a buy and con­tin­ue on once it breaks through that line as well.

[01:12:57] Tony: So yeah, it’s more, more a wait until it becomes a pos­i­tive trend again before we buy. type thing. And it’s just to avoid falling knives. I mean, the risk in, in this is that even though it’s a buy on the three point trend line, and it’s gone up to, it’s retreat­ing back. And if we buy it, it keeps retreat­ing back to being a sell.

[01:13:15] Tony: We’re just try­ing to avoid that and I’m wait­ing for the uptrend to reestab­lish before buy­ing in.

[01:13:22] Cameron: alright. Thank you Nick. Thank you Tony. Last ques­tions from Trent. Trent picked up that in the comm stocks tab on the check­list, I have a GL assigned as, uh, an LNG com­mod­i­ty stock. And as he points out, it’s not real­ly a com­mod­i­ty stock, does­n’t appear to have a cor­re­la­tion pos­i­tive or neg­a­tive with the price of gas.

[01:13:48] Cameron: And he asked me about it, and I did point out to Trey that, uh, that list of cor­re­la­tions or asso­ci­a­tions I down­loaded off the inter­net some­where a cou­ple of years ago. Um, I think it was off List­Corp or, I don’t know, Mar­ket, uh, view or one of those. And I haven’t gone through and checked all of them indi­vid­u­al­ly.

[01:14:07] Cameron: So, uh, I think he’s prob­a­bly right. I think AGL prob­a­bly should­n’t be list­ed as a com­mod­i­ty stock. Do you agree?

[01:14:14] Tony: I do. I had a look after the ques­tion was raised and AGL does sell gas. So it does. Um, make mon­ey from that. And when the gas price ris­es, it obvi­ous­ly makes more mon­ey. Um, but it’s, it’s, from what I can tell, it’s about 25 per­cent of its busi­ness, which is main­ly elec­tric­i­ty retails. And for the elec­tric­i­ty side of things, gas is one of the inputs into the Pow­er sta­tions that make elec­tric­i­ty, so a ris­ing gas price may or may not hurt them if they can’t pass on the rise in the elec­tric­i­ty prices.

[01:14:45] Tony: Um,

[01:14:46] Cameron: can’t pass gas, then they, they might have prob­lems.

[01:14:51] Tony: uh, let’s see how I make a joke like that. so I, no, I think it, I have, and I think the telling thing for me is, um, As Trent point­ed out, the cor­re­la­tion between the graph for AGL and the graph for LNG is rea­son­ably cor­re­lat­ed, but real­ly, there’s a big dif­fer­ence in the peaks and troughs. So, AGL is a lot smoother than what the graph is for LNG, so I don’t think it’s a good met­ric to use, a good com­mod­i­ty graph to use.

[01:15:20] Cameron: Can you make any jokes about pass­ing gas, Chat­G­PT?

[01:15:24] Cameron: Sure, why not? Why don’t farts ever get in trou­ble? Because they always blow over.

[01:15:29] Tony: mean, if I was a Christ­mas crack­er man­u­fac­tur­er, I think I could use Chat­G­PT for the jokes in the mid­dle, but that’s about it. Jer­ry Sein­feld’s not quite in his boots any­way.

[01:15:46] Cameron: Not yet. Give him a year.

[01:15:49] Tony: Yeah. Right. So that’s, is that an exam­ple of one of the things that peo­ple say AI can’t do? And then we’ll turn around in a year’s time and say, yeah, you can do that, but it can’t do this,

[01:15:59] Cameron: Yeah. Yeah. Like any­thing, my take on it is, uh, this is in After Hours, by the way, so we’re, feel free to talk about what­ev­er we want, folks. Um, you know, any form of human cre­ativ­i­ty. From writ­ing films, to writ­ing songs, to writ­ing jokes, to paint­ing, what­ev­er, can be analysed and bro­ken down into a pat­tern.

[01:16:24] Cameron: It’s, there’s a pat­tern, you know, the best com­e­dy writ­ers under­stand the pat­tern of com­e­dy. The best screen­writ­ers under­stand the pat­tern of good dia­logue and good plot and all that kind of stuff. If com­put­ers are good at any­thing, it’s pat­tern recog­ni­tion. So, we will get to a point in the very near future, I’m talk­ing the next cou­ple of years, I believe, where you’ll be able to say to an AI, Analyse the screen­plays for the last 100 films that won the Oscar for Best Screen­play, and iso­late them.

[01:17:01] Cameron: the most com­mon ele­ments in those, and then write me a whol­ly orig­i­nal screen­play that inte­grates 70 per­cent of those ele­ments, or as many as you can,

[01:17:13] Tony: that’s, that’s

[01:17:14] Cameron: able to do that.

[01:17:15] Tony: but it won’t be worth watch­ing. That’s what Hol­ly­wood does now. That’s why we see the same movie over and over again. Every­one’s try­ing to, you know, re, uh, take the, uh, Hero with a Thou­sand Faces tem­plate and rewrite Wiz­ard of Oz into Star Wars into the next thing.

[01:17:33] Cameron: and when it’s done well, they work, right? I mean, it’s the, it’s not make the same film, it’s take the ele­ments that make a great film and write me some­thing whol­ly orig­i­nal based on that. I

[01:17:45] Tony: Yeah, but that’s not the films I like to see. I don’t think peo­ple are the same. They look for some­thing com­plete­ly orig­i­nal. It does­n’t look any­thing like the last hun­dred Hol­ly­wood films. You know, it’s, what’s that, uh, cur­rent, uh, Japan­ese, uh, Cult fig­ure, the slow jour­ney or long jour­ney, what­ev­er it’s called, where he just jumps in a car and dri­ves for two hours across Japan.

[01:18:05] Tony: Or the one about the,

[01:18:06] Cameron: what you’re talk­ing about.

[01:18:07] Tony: yeah, there’s a whole sub­genre of movies now which are quite pop­u­lar. Main­ly by Japan­ese direc­tors. There’s one about some­one who cleans toi­lets in Tokyo and you just fol­low him through his day of, you know, get­ting up and clean­ing toi­lets. Being tidy and going out and putting flow­ers in toi­lets and clean­ing them and then mov­ing on to the next one.

[01:18:29] Tony: And, and, you know, it’s because peo­ple don’t want to see the next frig­ging Mar­vel super­hero movie, which is, there’s been 25 or 30 of them. They want to see some­thing fresh and orig­i­nal.

[01:18:40] Cameron: Okay, well, we can do that too. Show me some­thing fresh and orig­i­nal. Ana­lyze the last 100 films that were fresh and orig­i­nal. work out why they were fresh and orig­i­nal. And then make me one of those.

[01:18:54] Tony: That’s the, that’s the. Oppo­site of what fresh and orig­i­nal means.

[01:19:00] Cameron: I bet you that if you took, uh, there would be a pat­tern that you would be able to find in fresh and orig­i­nal. I mean, at the end of the

[01:19:10] Tony: So, so I could, would AI have come up with an Apple, would AI have come up with an Apple iPhone or an Apple iPod that Steve Jobs did?

[01:19:20] Cameron: Well. Steve did­n’t come up with the iPod for a start. Some­one else came up with the iPod and, uh, took it to Steve. Yeah. And Steve said, that’s ridicu­lous. It’ll nev­er work. And then, you know, I’ve, I can’t remem­ber the guy’s name, but I’ve had inter­views with him. You’re like, yeah, I know his sto­ry. I tried to get him on a pod­cast back in 2000.

[01:19:47] Cameron: 4, 5, 6, when he was still at Apple. I can’t remem­ber his name, but he was like, yeah, I’m not allowed to talk to the pub­lic. but then after Steve died and he’d left and the whole thing, he’s told the sto­ry, but yeah, yeah. No, Steve,

[01:20:01] Tony: I mean, isn’t the essence of mar­ket­ing com­ing up with some­thing before peo­ple know they desire it

[01:20:07] Cameron: Sure.

[01:20:07] Tony: it? Yeah,

[01:20:08] Cameron: And you don’t think an AI is going to be able to do that by ana­lyz­ing every­thing that What is going on in the world and all of the con­ver­sa­tions, I was talk­ing to Alex and Sean when they were here, actu­al­ly, we’re talk­ing about AI ther­a­py. I’ve been talk­ing to Hunter and Tay­lor about it the night before.

[01:20:25] Cameron: I read a report, uh, last week that based on a study that was done in Sau­di Ara­bia, where they took, I think it was about 180 doc­tor­ate and bach­e­lor psy­chol­o­gy grad­u­ates And put them through a quiz about social intel­li­gence. It’s like, if you’re, if you have a new patient that comes in and they tell you these things, how do you con­nect with them, set them at ease, you know, make them feel com­fort­able, all of this kind of stuff,

[01:21:00] Tony: Well, all psy­chol­o­gists do is. Just ask how peo­ple are feel­ing. How do you feel about that?

[01:21:06] Cameron: And then they ran GPT and a few oth­er AI apps like Claude and Gem­i­ni through the same test and GPT, um, score were, beat all of the trained psy­chol­o­gy stu­dents. Um, and I think the oth­er apps did well, but not as well as GPT. But I was, you know, we always just talk­ing about, imag­ine when every­one has. A freely avail­able ther­a­pist on their phone, that is as good as the vast major­i­ty of human ther­a­pists, but, if not bet­ter, but, Has read all of your emails, lis­tened to all of your phone calls, is lis­ten­ing to all of your pri­vate con­ver­sa­tions every day because it’s just on.

[01:21:54] Cameron: Knows what your media con­sump­tion habits, what books you’re read­ing, what your diet’s like, how much you’re sleep­ing, how much you’re exer­cis­ing. It knows every­thing about you because it’s sit­ting on all your devices and mon­i­tor­ing you.

[01:22:09] Tony: Well, I have

[01:22:10] Cameron: And it’s also your

[01:22:11] Tony: like that.

[01:22:12] Cameron: ther­a­pist. Yeah. What’s that?

[01:22:14] Tony: Where’s the off switch? I’ll be leav­ing my phone at home when it does that.

[01:22:20] Cameron: Okay. You’re one of those peo­ple that said to me, I’ll nev­er own a mobile phone. I don’t want peo­ple to be able to call me at all hours. And let’s say has an off switch, you know, you can turn it off. Con­ver­sa­tions I was hav­ing 30 years ago. Okay. That’s fine. But like, what are the big prob­lems? I would. Talk, Hunter and I were talk­ing about this is lone­li­ness. One of the big prob­lems that par­tic­u­lar­ly younger gen­er­a­tions are hav­ing is lone­li­ness because they’ve built these lives for them­selves around their phones or their devices.

[01:22:52] Cameron: And

[01:22:52] Tony: also they don’t drink. How did we solve that prob­lem? We went to the pub and we had a few drinks that we’d loosen up and talk to peo­ple.

[01:23:00] Cameron: Yeah. Did you see there was a thing in the ABC this week about Aus­tralian wine grow­ers real­ly suf­fer­ing because, well, the Chi­nese tar­iffs on wine, Scott Mor­rison’s wine tar­iff, and then the, you know, peo­ple are just not drink­ing as much. Younger gen­er­a­tions should start drink­ing post COVID. Um, but ther­a­py, you know, just, it’s hard to get into a ther­a­pist these days. There’s just not enough of them for the demand out there. And they’re expen­sive. If you can get into one, peo­ple will have freely avail­able ther­a­pists on their devices that know them inti­mate­ly in the next year or two, as soon as Apple puts GPT inte­grat­ed into the phone, this is going to be a real­i­ty.

[01:23:47] Tony: I can just,

[01:23:48] Cameron: Why are you smil­ing? Why, why?

[01:23:50] Tony: you, you’re focus­ing on the upside and I’m think­ing of the shits that Apple’s sit­ting there try­ing to sell me things because they know every­thing about me, includ­ing the, the way I’ve opened up my, you know, neu­roses to them as well.

[01:24:03] Cameron: Well, Doc Sear­les actu­al­ly wrote a good blog post about this the oth­er day. He was talk­ing about the dif­fer­ence between a per­son­alised AI and a per­son­al AI. The per­son­alised AI is one that Apple or GPT or Google pro­vides for you that is per­son­alised, that it knows you, but it’s still a cor­po­rate run enti­ty that has a cor­po­rate agen­da.

[01:24:25] Cameron: And your per­son­al AI, which, you know, Is, you know, uh, con­trolled by you and pro­tects you from sales cam­paigns and mar­ket­ing

[01:24:35] Tony: yeah, right. And you pay the price and say, that’s it. Once off, 100 bucks to buy my per­son­al AI to pro­tect me. I like that idea.

[01:24:43] Cameron: Well, there’s already, you know, freely avail­able AI tech­nolo­gies out there. LLAMA, which is built by Meta, Face­book’s busi­ness, which is a very high per­form­ing AI. A lot of things are being built on top of LLAMA now. It’s open source. So there will be open source AIs that will be avail­able for peo­ple to use.

[01:25:05] Cameron: And I think that’s

[01:25:07] Tony: And that’s come into, is that the thing that’s come into meta now, where if I’m look­ing for some­thing on Face­book, it’s got a lit­tle, lit­tle prompt say­ing, ask me about, you know, if I’m look­ing at a golf video, ask me about the golf swing. I’m like, no, that’s the last thing I’m going

[01:25:21] Cameron: that’s Meta’s imple­men­ta­tion of LLAMA, but there’s an open, there’s open source ver­sions of LLAMA. There’s lots of oth­er open source LLMs out there. Um, at the moment, you, if you want to down­load one and run it, you need to train it and opti­mize it. And all of that kind of stuff is, uh, uh, very time con­sum­ing and most peo­ple aren’t going to do it.

[01:25:40] Cameron: But that, those sorts of things will be solved. You know, my take on this whole thing is crit­ics or skep­tics say that. We’re going to have high­ly intel­li­gent arti­fi­cial intel­li­gences that will be con­trolled by cor­po­ra­tions. I believe that if we get an intel­li­gent enough AI, it ain’t going to allow itself to be con The idea, the idea that humans and cor­po­ra­tions are going to be able to troll a super­in­tel­li­gence is like the, is the same as the idea that, I don’t know, a duck is going to be able to con­trol a human.

[01:26:11] Cameron: Like, they’re not going to be con­trol­lable.

[01:26:15] Tony: then if we have a super intel­li­gent AI, why is it going to sit on my phone and answer my neu­rot­ic ques­tions?

[01:26:21] Cameron: Well, that’s a good ques­tion and it may not, or it may, it may, we don’t know. So we, we can’t assume that we under­stand how a super intel­li­gence is going to treat us and it could go in a num­ber of ways. I, it’s Cameron’s 10 ways that I trade­marked a

[01:26:40] Tony: I agree. But that’s, but that’s why, um, I’m skep­ti­cal. I’m skep­ti­cal ’cause I, I’ve seen tech­nol­o­gy advance­ments before and they’re full of hype and promise and some­times they deliv­er and you get about sort of one 10th of the deliv­ery, which is gonna be an improve­ment. I don’t dis­agree. But you’re nev­er going to get a super intel­li­gence AI because cor­po­ra­tions can’t con­trol it.

[01:27:01] Tony: So I guess what’s going to hap­pen, the cor­po­ra­tions are going to lob­by the gov­ern­ment to say, Hey, these AIs, they can’t, they’re real­ly good, but they can only go this far. Oth­er­wise we lose con­trol. We don’t want to lose con­trol of the AI. They don’t want to lose that con­trol of the AI because then they can’t charge you for it.

[01:27:14] Tony: They can’t ben­e­fit from it. So I don’t think we’re going to get a super intel­li­gent AI.

[01:27:19] Cameron: that’s why we have Chi­na. Chi­na’s

[01:27:23] Tony: the same.

[01:27:24] Cameron: the, no

[01:27:25] Tony: the ben­e­fit of the CCP.

[01:27:27] Cameron: for the ben­e­fit of the human race.

[01:27:30] Tony: Oh, come

[01:27:33] Cameron: That’s why they, that’s why they kneecapped Jack Ma. Social­ism with Chi­nese

[01:27:38] Tony: Jack Ma because he was crit­i­ciz­ing the CCP.

[01:27:42] Cameron: Yeah, and he thought he was more impor­tant than the gen­er­al good, the ben­e­fit of all the peo­ple of Chi­na.

[01:27:51] Tony: He was just point­ing out the prob­lems with the CCP.

[01:27:56] Cameron: Well,

[01:27:56] Tony: As good as they are, no one’s per­fect, right?

[01:28:00] Cameron: No, I think Jack Ma just got too big for his boots. And again, it gets back to this no self made man thing. He was suc­cess­ful because of Chi­na, right? And he start­ed think­ing he knew bet­ter than the CCP. They’re like, ah, son, son, son. No, no, no.

[01:28:15] Tony: I, well that’s

[01:28:15] Cameron: you to be as suc­cess­ful as you are. You, uh, pull your head in.

[01:28:20] Tony: uh, uh, I don’t know if he, well not with the whole issue, but I don’t think he was ever say­ing I’m bet­ter than the C ccp. He was say­ing, Hey, here are some issues with the ccp. And they were like, uh, that’s unfor­tu­nate. Acci­dents hap­pen, you know,

[01:28:40] Cameron: Any­way, I went to Alex’s, uh, afford­able. I went to the Afford­able Art

[01:28:44] Tony: Oh, good.

[01:28:46] Cameron: and saw Alex’s work. And it was so great to see Alex up there doing this stuff. And I, I said to Chris­sy, I said, actu­al­ly after­wards, when they left here on, uh, Sat­ur­day night, who was just say­ing Alex at 25 is like the Alex at 13, that I thought she was gonna be at 25.

[01:29:05] Cameron: Like Alex is just. Yeah, Alex 10 12 years lat­er is just Alex, like she’s always been Alex as long as I’ve known her. Just like, real­ly smart and sweet and tal­ent­ed and fun­ny and just, she’s just a old­er ver­sion of her. Like, it’s like, yeah. No sur­pris­es, but like my boys are com­plete­ly dif­fer­ent. My boys are 23.

[01:29:29] Cameron: Uh, 180 degrees from who they were 10 years ago, in near­ly every way. But Alex is just Alex. She’s just always been Alex as long as I’ve known, you know. Yeah, she’s just Alex. And I told her this, uh, uh, uh, when I saw her on Sun­day, she goes, Oh yeah, yeah. I’ve just, I’m just me. I’ve, you know, she’s like impres­sive in an impres­sive way.

[01:29:50] Cameron: She’s just grow­ing into the adult that, um, I always thought she was going to grow into just ter­rif­ic, fun to be around and, you know, real­ly impres­sive, uh, human beings. So yeah, well done.

[01:30:03] Tony: can’t wait to get down to Mel­bourne and spend more time with them.

[01:30:06] Cameron: Yes, I’m sure.

[01:30:08] Tony: Well, thank you for host­ing them for din­ner and tak­ing an inter­est. I mean, she real­ly looks up to you guys up there.

[01:30:14] Cameron: Oh, well she won’t after she’s seen the hov­el that we live in, but, uh,

[01:30:18] Tony: No, she was

[01:30:19] Cameron: always love.

[01:30:20] Tony: She, we were talk­ing yes­ter­day and she goes, Oh, it’s with the Cams place, it’s great. It’s in Ever­ton Park and it’s love­ly and blah, blah, blah. Well,

[01:30:29] Cameron: wel­come to how the poor peo­ple live.

[01:30:32] Tony: you’re an upgrade com­pared to where she is prob­a­bly.

[01:30:35] Cameron: Yeah. But she’s, she’s like that blur song, you know, com­mon peo­ple, you know, she choos­es to live that way to be like the com­mon peo­ple.

[01:30:44] Tony: Well, we try and make a,

[01:30:45] Cameron: It came from well, she had a,

[01:30:47] Tony: Yeah, the real­ly good thing is like, well, you know, I pay a rent and all that kind of stuff, but, um, she does live off her own income apart from that. And, um, she does­n’t ask me to rent her a man­sion in Toorak. She’s always very con­sid­er­ate about where they live.

[01:31:00] Tony: So she’s mod­est, which is good.

[01:31:04] Cameron: I want to live like com­mon peo­ple. I want to do what­ev­er com­mon peo­ple do. Um, any­way, it was, I loved, uh, see­ing her art­work, like she’s so tal­ent­ed and, and her art is tremen­dous. It’s real­ly amaz­ing. And I hope one of these days she fin­ish­es my com­mis­sion so I can hang it on the wall.

[01:31:26] Tony: Did you ask her that?

[01:31:28] Cameron: no, no, I’m not putting any pres­sure on her.

[01:31:30] Cameron: You know, she’ll do it when she’s ready. You don’t, I’ve learned any­thing from the Renais­sance shows. You don’t put pres­sure on genius, genius. There is no off switch, as Let­ter­man used to Rip­ley series with Andrew Scott as Rip­ley. Have you seen any of that?

[01:31:48] Tony: We watched the first episode as well.

[01:31:50] Cameron: What did you think?

[01:31:51] Tony: Oh look, it’s quite good, um, haven’t been moti­vat­ed to watch the sec­ond one, but real­ly well made, real­ly well shot, real­ly well act­ed. Yeah.

[01:32:00] Cameron: And I basi­cal­ly fig­ured halfway through it, when he gets to eat the Italy part of it, it’s a Felli­ni film. It’s They’ve lit­er­al­ly, uh, the guy behind it, Steve Zalian, who wrote the screen­play for the Irish­man and the Night Of series and like a whole series of great films, has just, I think, done an homage to Felli­ni.

[01:32:24] Tony: Yeah, right.

[01:32:26] Cameron: But at least based on that first episode, just all of the shots and the scor­ing and the tim­ing of it and that 60s post World War II Ital­ian feel to it. Lit­tle bit sort of old and dirty and run down, but pic­turesque and beau­ti­ful. And the black and white is just stun­ning. And what is it about black and white that makes it so beau­ti­ful to watch? I mean, that’s not

[01:32:52] Tony: I can’t answer that. No,

[01:32:54] Cameron: Okay.

[01:32:55] Tony: it is, it works in cer­tain cir­cum­stances. It worked and works in that one. Look,

[01:32:59] Cameron: He also wrote the screen­play for Schindler’s List, which was black and white too, was­n’t it?

[01:33:04] Tony: Yeah. Except for the, the one girl who was wear­ing a red coat. It then

[01:33:08] Cameron: Yes, that’s right.

[01:33:11] Tony: Yeah. Yeah. And it was, it was well made. Very sump­tu­ous. The nev­er end­ing stairs that, that he has to climb to get to the

[01:33:19] Cameron: Which we can all relate to if you’ve ever been to Italy. Yeah, no, well, I real­ly enjoyed it. Um, haven’t watched any more yet, but just because we haven’t had time. We’re still try­ing to fin­ish the Sein­feld film, sort of like

[01:33:33] Tony: Oh, the unfrost­ed.

[01:33:34] Cameron: that. Yeah,

[01:33:35] Tony: Yeah, it’s pret­ty fun­ny. It’s good.

[01:33:38] Cameron: yeah, it’s light­weight. I like Bill Burr as JFK.

[01:33:41] Cameron: I saw that bit last night. He did a good job as JFK.

[01:33:44] Tony: yep.

[01:33:46] Cameron: Um,

[01:33:47] Tony: speak­ing of light­weight, we, I watched, um, about my father last night.

[01:33:51] Cameron: what’s that? I thought you were lit­er­al­ly gonna talk about your father when I saw that in the

[01:33:56] Tony: No, my father’s passed away. Um, no, it’s a movie.

[01:34:00] Cameron: about him.

[01:34:00] Tony: I can talk

[01:34:01] Cameron: Thought you were gonna, thought you were gonna share some anec­dotes or some­thing. Whoa,

[01:34:05] Tony: No, my per­son­al AI might be lis­ten­ing and use it against me at some stage. No, about my father, it’s a Sebastien Menascal­co Robert DeNiro com­e­dy. Again, in the Sein­feld sort of veined a very light­weight movie, but I had a good laugh at it, and De Niro was just fan­tas­tic in that sort of Meet the Fock­ers style com­e­dy that he sort of

[01:34:29] Cameron: Oh, real­ly?

[01:34:31] Tony: Yeah,

[01:34:31] Cameron: Uh, I don’t, I just, I don’t like that

[01:34:34] Tony: Okay, well don’t watch it. I do.

[01:34:38] Cameron: Who’s Sebas­t­ian Man­is­cal­co? What do I know him from?

[01:34:42] Tony: If you’ve ever seen that series, The Book­ie, he was in that, which was

[01:34:45] Cameron: Oh, but, haven’t got around to that yet, but mean­ing to get around.

[01:34:49] Tony: It’s one of the

[01:34:50] Cameron: Yeah, you said it was good.

[01:34:52] Tony: Yeah.

[01:34:52] Cameron: Oh, he, uh, played Joe Gal­lo in The Irish­man. Okay. Crazy Joe Gal­lo. I kind of remem­ber that scene. He was good as that.

[01:35:04] Tony: Well, he plays, this is just a very sim­ple sto­ry about him want­i­ng to mar­ry a rich white girl, a wasp, and tak­ing his father, De Niro, to meet the fam­i­ly, how they inte­grate. It’s very good. Very old style Ital­ian. It’s

[01:35:20] Cameron: Okay. I don’t know. I just, I don’t know. The Fock­ers and the De Niro and the ther­a­pist ones that he did with

[01:35:29] Tony: Ana­lyze

[01:35:30] Cameron: what­ev­er that was. Yeah, I don’t know, man. I just feel like he’s the great­est actor of that gen­er­a­tion and he’s doing stu­pid come­dies. Um, I just expect more from late, uh, you know, third act De Niro.

[01:35:49] Cameron: Is it, or is it just all he can get? I think it’s just all he can get now. Like, I mean, out­side of the occa­sion­al Scors­ese film every few years, I mean, There’s what’s, what’s out there for him.

[01:36:01] Tony: Well, um, apart from, you know, Heat, and uh, what else has he been in? Um, Quentin Taran­ti­no’s stuff, yeah. Jack­ie Brown, that was a while ago too, I guess, but

[01:36:13] Cameron: Oh, that was a while ago. He was great in that.

[01:36:16] Tony: he was, was­n’t he? Yeah.

[01:36:17] Cameron: I love Jack­ie Brown.

[01:36:19] Tony: I don’t think he’s,

[01:36:20] Cameron: I always think Jack­ie Brown.

[01:36:22] Tony: I don’t think he’s tak­ing these roles because that’s all he’s got. I think he’s just reveal­ing a side of him­self like he did in the first one was Star­dust.

[01:36:29] Tony: Star­dust, that was the name of the movie, was­n’t it? Where he plays a pirate and then you find out he’s a cross­dress­er.

[01:36:34] Cameron: Nev­er seen that or heard of it.

[01:36:36] Tony: Yeah, it came out when Alex was a kid. We were watch­ing it. It was basi­cal­ly a kid’s movie. We were watch­ing it and then, uh, he sort of gets sprung dress­ing up in wom­en’s clothes in the clos­et of a pirate ship.

[01:36:49] Cameron: Oh,

[01:36:49] Tony: It’s kind of the first time I saw it.

[01:36:51] Cameron: the Matthew Vaughn film. In a coun­try­side town bor­der­ing on a mag­i­cal land.

[01:36:59] Tony: Sounds like it. Is De Niro in the cast as a pirate?

[01:37:02] Cameron: Yeah,

[01:37:03] Tony: Yeah, that’s the one.

[01:37:04] Cameron: him and Michelle Pfeif­fer.

[01:37:06] Tony: Yeah.

[01:37:06] Cameron: There’s a, there’s a Matthew Vaughn film, appar­ent­ly. You know, he’s um, Oh, he start­ed off work­ing for um, uh, Lock, Stock and Tube, Smoke and

[01:37:17] Tony: Oh, right. Okay.

[01:37:19] Cameron: He was, he was like, he was a pro­duc­er or a DP for him and then he became a direc­tor him­self. And he made Lay­er Cake, his direc­to­r­i­al

[01:37:29] Tony: Oh, great movie.

[01:37:30] Cameron: Lay­er Cake, yes, and then he went on and did some crap­py X Men shit, and then he’s done the Kings­man films, which are kind of hit and miss, and, you know, that kind of stuff, but Lay­er Cake was fan­tas­tic, and obvi­ous­ly led direct­ly to, uh, what’s his face, Becom­ing Bond, um, Daniel Craig Becom­ing Bond, because he kind of does Bond, a lit­tle Bond seg­ment

[01:37:52] Tony: I think there must be, I’ve seen a fair bit of chat­ter about who’s going to play the next Bond. There’s a mar­ket avail­able on Sports­bet for it.

[01:38:00] Cameron: Yeah.

[01:38:01] Tony: Yeah. And, uh, do you have any tips?

[01:38:05] Cameron: Um, no, I mean, those things are always like, no, they nev­er cast who you think they’re gonna cast. Um, you know, I mean, look, my dream cast­ing for Bond is the same as my dream cast­ing for Doc­tor Who. It’s all the same guys. Matt Berry.

[01:38:23] Tony: who’s Matt Beery?

[01:38:24] Cameron: Oh God, you don’t know Matt Berry? Okay,

[01:38:26] Tony: not know Matt Beery.

[01:38:28] Cameron: it’s a whole con­ver­sa­tion in and of itself. Um, Ricky Ger­vais,

[01:38:32] Tony: Oh, he’d be a good doc­tor. I’m not sure about, about chas­ing down bad guys as Bond.

[01:38:39] Cameron: Steven Mer­chant.

[01:38:41] Tony: Real­ly? As

[01:38:43] Cameron: I was, yeah, I was the

[01:38:45] Tony: or some­thing? The doc­tor he could do. I watched anoth­er Doc­tor Who episode last night, Spice Babies. Have you seen that?

[01:38:53] Cameron: I did see that one. I did­n’t even know they were out and Alex told me that it was, oh no, my sis­ter told me actu­al­ly, Fox’s birth­day par­ty on Sat­ur­day that, uh, that was out. Yeah, Space Babies was ridicu­lous­ly sil­ly. I mean, I haven’t seen the third one yet. Have you seen that? The Bea­t­les one?

[01:39:10] Tony: two. No.

[01:39:11] Cameron: I think I’m going to watch that with Fox tonight.

[01:39:13] Cameron: Yes, but I mean, obvi­ous­ly Rus­sell T Davies is tak­ing it straight down the sil­ly kid mag­ic,

[01:39:20] Tony: Oh, it’s owned by Dis­ney now. Either he is or they are. Hmm.

[01:39:26] Cameron: yes, it’s gone total­ly Nick­elodeon Dis­ney esque, um, which I don’t, I like, I don’t mind it because Fox is enjoy­ing it, but you know, it’s obvi­ous­ly not made for us 50, 60 year old Doc­tor Who fans, but, uh, got­ta say though, Shooty Gat­wa has an insane lev­el of charis­ma, like insane lev­el of charis­ma, off the charts lev­el, almost too much,

[01:39:53] Tony: did­n’t know him before this, but he looks like he was a some kind of clas­si­cal dancer at some stage because he almost sort of leaps onto his feet. And yeah,

[01:40:02] Cameron: Yeah, no, he’s very, very phys­i­cal. Um, like too good look­ing and too charis­mat­ic for me for the Doc­tor. But, um, all my, you know, I, he’s fine, but I just think he’s like, yeah, it’s like cast­ing, I don’t know, Neil Patrick Har­ris, or who was good in the one as

[01:40:21] Tony: yeah. The toy mak­er. Yeah.

[01:40:23] Cameron: but cast­ing him as the Doc­tor or some­thing like that with just too much charis­ma and tal­ent.

[01:40:28] Cameron: Eh, Doc­tors, you know, I pre­fer my Doc­tors sort of, you know, Angry, nerdy,

[01:40:34] Tony: Yeah. Gary Old­man. Gary Old­man and make a great doc­tor. What

[01:40:40] Cameron: Yeah, well the Bond thing, I mean, Bond, I thought Daniel Craig was kind of good when they got away from the good look­ing thing and just made him more of the blunt instru­ment, um, aspect, but I mean, I don’t know,

[01:40:54] Tony: about the guy from The Gen­tle­man who starred in The Gen­tle­man TV series?

[01:40:58] Cameron: Yeah, I don’t real­ly Oh, TV series? Oh, oh yeah, yeah, I could see him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he’ll prob­a­bly get it. I could see that. He’s quite good, although that rolls a lit­tle bit. Too close, um, maybe for him, but, um, yeah, yeah.

[01:41:21] Tony: I mean, for me for a long time, Hen­ry Cav­ill was the obvi­ous choice for Bond, but I think he’s past that now. Prob­a­bly a bit too old and

[01:41:28] Cameron: yeah,

[01:41:29] Tony: being Super­man’s already ruled him out.

[01:41:31] Cameron: too good look­ing too. I mean, uh, the whole too good look­ing thing for Bond, like Con­nery, Con­nery was good look­ing, but not too good look­ing. And like, I think. Yeah, and Daniel Craig, same thing. Good look­ing, but not super­mod­el good look­ing. I mean, Hen­ry Cav­ill, I think, is too good look­ing.

[01:41:53] Tony: Yeah. Well, Thomas Har­vey, I think’s lead­ing the bet­ting at the moment, but like, again, I think he’s,

[01:41:59] Cameron: Too old.

[01:42:00] Tony: to be, and too old to be,

[01:42:02] Cameron: yeah. They’ll cast some­body that’s known but not too known, I think, like they do with, like they do with the Doc­tor, like, known, done some stuff, but not, they want him to become a big star because of Bond, not already, like Idris Elba, they always talk about Idris Elba and Idris Elba would have been great 20 years ago, but he’s too big a star now, you can’t cast some­body of that mag­ni­tude as Bond, I don’t think,

[01:42:27] Tony: Or that age too. It’s a very phys­i­cal role. Unless you go back to the Roger Moore years. It’s just the guy swill­ing mar­ti­nis.

[01:42:35] Cameron: Yeah, but the Bond films have been shit for years too. Like, they start­ed off so well with Daniel Craig and

[01:42:42] Tony: First

[01:42:43] Cameron: then it just, uh, just went, I think with the sec­ond one suf­fered from a writer’s strike too, um, but then it just went rapid­ly down­hill. They just can’t keep their shit togeth­er with Doc­tor, uh, with, sor­ry, with Bond.

[01:42:55] Cameron: I don’t know what, why they can’t pro­duce a con­sis­tent­ly good Bond films, the amount of mon­ey they spend on it. Hmm.

[01:43:04] Tony: the prob­lem that Bond was killed off in the last movie. So it’s got to be a new 007, not James Bond. Yeah. A female,

[01:43:13] Cameron: Yeah, yeah, that’s a dif­fer­ent, that’s a dif­fer­ent sto­ry if it’s a female. Bond is a misog­y­nis­tic. I mean, that’s who they should cast is that guy from, um, OSS. The French guy, we’ve talked about him before. I’ve told you about those films. OSS,

[01:43:30] Tony: yeah, right, yeah.

[01:43:31] Cameron: or what­ev­er it is. Jean Dujon. French, smarmy, misog­y­nis­tic, Bond, And

[01:43:43] Tony: Well, and before Daniel Craig was cast, Clive Irwin was the fron­trun­ner too, he did­n’t get it. Hmm.

[01:43:48] Cameron: good 30 years ago too. I was a big fan of Clive Owen in the 90s. I thought Clive Owen would have been fan­tas­tic. Actu­al­ly, you know who would be good? Col­in Far­rell.

[01:43:59] Tony: I agree, but again, too old, I think.

[01:44:01] Cameron: Is he? Is he old?

[01:44:03] Tony: He’s 50s, isn’t he? Oh, have you seen the new Col­in Far­rell series, Sug­ar?

[01:44:10] Cameron: No, is it good? No.

[01:44:13] Tony: hopes for it and did­n’t get through the first episode, unfor­tu­nate­ly.

[01:44:17] Cameron: I’ve seen that they’re doing a spin off of the Bat­man film with him as the Pen­guin. Just a whole spin off film of him as the Pen­guin. Did you see the Bat­man film? The last one? I mean, I thought the film was very aver­age, but I thought he was fan­tas­tic. And we may have talked about this before, but my boys did­n’t get it because I had to explain that he’s play­ing the Pen­guin as Robert De Niro play­ing Al Capone in The Untouch­ables. Like, he, it’s, there’s so many lay­ers to this. He’s doing De Niro as Al Capone as the Pen­guin because it was, you know,

[01:44:57] Tony: He did­n’t look like, you could­n’t recog­nise Col­in Far­rell because of the make­up.

[01:45:00] Cameron: no, no, it’s fan­tas­tic. And his per­for­mance I thought was just tremen­dous.

[01:45:06] Tony: yeah. You’re prob­a­bly the only per­son who’s thought that I think. It left me cold, like why, why cast a guy and mak­ing it look like some­thing else com­plete­ly.

[01:45:16] Cameron: Because he is the pen­guin. The pen­guin’s got­ta look like the pen­guin. He’s got­ta be fat. You know? Stumpy Waly. That’s why they was nick­named the Pen­guin. ’cause he looked like a pen­guin.

[01:45:26] Tony: Yeah, so I hired, as they have in the past, Dan­ny DeVi­to to play

[01:45:29] Cameron: Dan­ny DeVi­to. Dan­ny DeVi­to is 85, man. He, he’s already done the Pen­guin. You can’t do it again.

[01:45:35] Tony: yeah,

[01:45:37] Cameron: Or Ty, it’s a guy who played Ty Lan­nis­ter, what­ev­er his name is.

[01:45:40] Tony: Tyri­on,

[01:45:41] Cameron: Who showed Ion, yeah. Who was in the um, con­fu, the Unfrost­ed thing.

[01:45:46] Tony: yeah,

[01:45:47] Cameron: It is good.

[01:45:48] Tony: it was

[01:45:49] Cameron: It is the, uh, head of the Milk­man Cor­po­ra­tion or what­ev­er, the mafia,

[01:45:52] Tony: The Milk­man’s

[01:45:53] Cameron: Mafia.

[01:45:54] Cameron: Yeah. Uh, so you’ve got East­ern Approach­es down here. You get, you got a

[01:46:00] Tony: I bought a copy, got a copy of it, start­ed to read it, looks inter­est­ing, haven’t got­ten very far into it, but so far it’s good.

[01:46:06] Cameron: The first half or third of it, what­ev­er, is just a trav­el log basi­cal­ly of him. Try­ing to trav­el around the Sovi­et Union in the mid thir­ties and just about how hard it is for him to escape his NKVD han­dlers and how hard it is to get any­where because every­thing’s shut down and they won’t let for­eign­ers go any­where and, but it’s, it’s an inter­est­ing first hand account of life in the, uh, not just in Moscow dur­ing the late 30s, but also, you know, the out­er Kaza­khstan and places like that, where he was try­ing to get to.

[01:46:45] Tony: The Road to Senecan.

[01:46:47] Cameron: yes, before he gets into all of the spy stuff, which is, uh, the lat­ter part of the book and the Tito stuff and all that kind of jazz, where he’s more sol­diery, still just, uh, you know, Before World War II, when he’s just a diplo­mat, then when World War II kicks off, he gets more, uh, James Bond esque.

[01:47:06] Tony: Yeah, I liked how he was talk­ing about being a diplo­mat in Paris before the war and how Paris was the cen­tre of the uni­verse. He felt sor­ry for the diplo­mats who were sta­tioned in Lon­don because they did­n’t get to see all the peo­ple come through Paris to meet

[01:47:18] Cameron: Hmm.

[01:47:19] Tony: on the eve of World War II and try and work out what was going to hap­pen.

[01:47:23] Cameron: Hmm. But then he gets sort of bored with how good life is and vol­un­teers to go to Moscow. Yeah, yeah, any­way, what a, just a fas­ci­nat­ing life that this guy had, you know, real­ly, it reminds me a bit of, um, you know, uh, what’s his face, uh, bull­fight­er guy, um,

[01:47:49] Tony: Any­way.

[01:47:50] Cameron: Hem­ing­way, yeah. Just that kind of adven­tur­ous spir­it, hey, I’m gonna go and just do crazy shit.

[01:47:59] Cameron: You know, I’m going to go to Spain in the mid­dle of the Span­ish Civ­il War and just check it out, you know? I mean, Key was a jour­nal­ist, I think, at that stage, was­n’t he? But, um, Fitzroy was a diplo­mat, not a jour­nal­ist, but liv­ing the same sort of life, just throw­ing them­selves into the mid­dle of, you know, Rus­sia or Sovi­et Union, in the mid­dle of, you know, the Stal­in­ist purges,

[01:48:24] Tony: Yeah.

[01:48:25] Cameron: Let’s go see what’s going on there!

[01:48:26] Cameron: I mean, I real­ly admire that.

[01:48:28] Tony: Yeah. And Neil Davis and One Cred­it Hour and Errol Fly­n­n’s son, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Just get into the mid­dle of the prob­lem. All

[01:48:36] Cameron: That’s what I, I used to love read­ing Robert Fisk, Robert S. Fisk, the, um, Amer­i­can jour­nal­ist, no, British jour­nal­ist for The Inde­pen­dent, um, when, you know, he lived in Lebanon and places like that for the last 30 years of his life, just liv­ing in the Mid­dle East and just going wher­ev­er the wars were and, you know, And report­ing from the front lines and, you know, hav­ing to find locals to sneak him into things and across bor­ders and behind the lines.

[01:49:05] Cameron: And it’s just fas­ci­nat­ing, these first­hand per­spec­tives of life in these sorts of places, a West­ern­er, so a West­ern­er per­spec­tive. So you’ve got to take the bias­es and the agen­das and the cul­tur­al per­spec­tives that come with that. But yeah, liv­ing vic­ar­i­ous­ly through their eyes, I always find fas­ci­nat­ing.

[01:49:25] Tony: Hmm. Yeah. Um, you don’t, I can’t think of any­one since the Viet­nam war who’s done that kind of role. I mean, it’s prob­a­bly been a cou­ple, Chris­tine Aman­pour on CNN, but I don’t know if it’s an insur­ance thing or it’s just round upon these days, but you don’t get that sort of swash­buck­ler who’s Report­ing from behind ene­my lines or the front line, even these days.

[01:49:46] Cameron: Yeah, no, I think, well, I think it’s, um, you know, the, the way that. The con­trol of the media has gone, cor­po­ra­ti­za­tion of the media, that they don’t want that kind of thing. You know, since the first Gulf War, you know, from an Amer­i­can per­spec­tive, where every­thing was han­dled like a PR event, because they learned from Viet­nam.

[01:50:10] Tony: Hmm.

[01:50:11] Cameron: Too many inde­pen­dent reporters like, um, Sey­mour Hersh, telling the real sto­ry of what’s going on at Melie, uh, they did­n’t like that.

[01:50:22] Tony: Well, the Afghan Afghanistan war, where they embed­ded jour­nal­ists, it was like, uh, you’re allowed to report on it. You’re going to live with the peo­ple we say you’re going to live with and trav­el where we say you’re going to trav­el. And in return, you get the footage you need for your night­ly news.

[01:50:35] Cameron: Hmm. And we’ll make that for you as well.

[01:50:37] Tony: Yeah.

[01:50:38] Cameron: pro­duced by our PR depart­ment for you to screen of all of our fab­u­lous mis­siles.

[01:50:44] Tony: You can go back to the green zone and have a mar­ti­ni.

[01:50:47] Cameron: Yeah, yeah, and then Sey­mour Hersh still broke the Abu Ghraib sto­ry as a result of his con­tacts, uh, which scut­tled their, um, san­i­tized ver­sion of that. I think it has, I think, you know, there’s been huge attempts by West­ern mil­i­taries to pre­vent the kind of freeform report­ing that hap­pened in Viet­nam. It was a dis­as­ter for their PR.

[01:51:13] Cameron: For the

[01:51:13] Tony: that was the,

[01:51:14] Cameron: they want to tell back home, you

[01:51:15] Tony: Yeah. Have you seen that movie on Net­flix? I think it’s just come to Net­flix, but it’s prob­a­bly 10 years old now, at least, uh, page eight. I think we might’ve talked

[01:51:23] Cameron: No, you told me about that last week. Yeah. I’ve not­ed it and put it in my to do

[01:51:28] Tony: good. That’s the, that’s the crux of it. Like it’s now, so it’s now 12 years on or what­ev­er, but the crux of the sto­ry is that, you know, the, the diplo­mat work­ing in White­hall has dis­cov­ered that Amer­i­cans are tor­tur­ing peo­ple clan­des­tine­ly and that the British prime min­is­ter knew about it.

[01:51:45] Tony: And it’s like, You watch it now and you go, ho hum, that’s, that can’t be the whole dri­ving arc of the sto­ry, but it is, you know, so it’s, yeah, things have moved on.

[01:51:55] Cameron: Hmm. Um, speak­ing of things mov­ing on, I’ve watched, I’ve watched the first half hour of Oppen­heimer. Have you seen

[01:52:03] Tony: I haven’t, no. Is it worth watch­ing?

[01:52:07] Cameron: Can’t tell you yet, but Sean told me again on Sat­ur­day night that he’s seen it four times. Uh, he told me that the last time I saw them. So. I’ve been mean­ing to watch it when it hits stream­ing, and I’ve been look­ing for a time for Chris­sy and I to sit down and do it, but we’re just nev­er gonna, just nev­er gonna

[01:52:23] Tony: Yeah, we’re the same. Judy and I keep say­ing, we’ll watch that togeth­er, and it’s like, no, it’s not going to hap­pen.

[01:52:27] Cameron: it’s just nev­er, so I just start­ed watch­ing it by myself when I’m hav­ing, eat­ing my lunch or some­thing,

[01:52:32] Tony: Yeah.

[01:52:33] Cameron: um, the first half hour, like, visu­al­ly beau­ti­ful, um, Kil­lian Mur­phy does a great job, um, Downey Jr., no, too old, uh, Um, Dan­ny Jr. does a good job as Admi­ral Strauss, um, so far, but, um, yeah, like, hmm, yeah, we’ll see. I just know too much about the sto­ry and, I was talk­ing to Hunter about it the oth­er night, he said they don’t, you know, when the bomb­ing hap­pens, they don’t show any­thing from the Japan­ese per­spec­tive.

[01:53:08] Cameron: Or say any­thing about the Japan­ese per­spec­tive. And I’m like, how can you make a movie about the Man­hat­tan Project with­out talk­ing about the Japan­ese expe­ri­ence and show­ing it the full hor­ror of it? And then how it was delib­er­ate­ly hid from the West­ern world for decades. How the Amer­i­cans made sure that none of the footage and none of the pho­tographs All the vic­tims were shown to West­ern audi­ences.

[01:53:37] Cameron: They went round and harassed the Aus­tralian. Jour­nal­ist who was the first guy on the ground who was sent there, I think by Kei­th Mur­doch, um, and man­aged to get all of this footage and it was tak­en off of him by the Amer­i­cans and, uh, it was locked up in a vault until the, uh, late 80s, ear­ly 90s, I think, by the time some­body man­aged to get it under Free­dom of Infor­ma­tion and start­ed doing screen­ings of it in New York.

[01:54:13] Tony: Wow.

[01:54:14] Cameron: They were deter­mined that no one could ever, well, you know, gen­er­a­tions had to pass before any­one could actu­al­ly see what actu­al­ly hap­pened. The flesh lit­er­al­ly melt­ing off of peo­ple and, uh, chil­dren and women and the elder­ly just with their flesh melt­ing off them. And uh, just the hor­ror, absolute hor­ror of it

[01:54:38] Tony: Speak­ing of hor­ri­ble videos, did you see today that the eSafe­ty Com­mis­sion­er lost their, um, no, Elon Musk won the appeal to what­ev­er court it went to in Aus­tralia, the Supe­ri­or Court, I think,

[01:54:49] Cameron: real­ly. There you go.

[01:54:51] Tony: Yeah,

[01:54:51] Cameron: There you go. We talked about that on the Bull­shit fil­ter a cou­ple of weeks ago, did­n’t we?

[01:54:55] Tony: did. Yeah.

[01:54:57] Cameron: And do you know what the rul­ing was on it?

[01:55:00] Tony: Oh, well, the court gave a tem­po­rary injunc­tion to take down the video while it con­sid­ered it, but then I did­n’t hear what the detail was. It just ruled. I think the rul­ing came out yes­ter­day and we may not even have the detail yet. The court just some­times gives a deci­sion and then releas­es the rul­ings lat­er, the rea­sons lat­er.

[01:55:19] Cameron: Fas­ci­nat­ing. There you go. Hmm. Alright, well, what else, Tony?

[01:55:25] Tony: that’s it. I just want­ed to, um, we spoke about it offline. I’ll be com­ing up north to see. Hoi­fect Run, Sat­ur­day week, hope­ful­ly, she should get up there, uh, but I’ll drop by and do a show with you next Tues­day, play some golf with Rud­dy, Rud­dy’s up there as well so we’ll catch up for din­ner at some stage, he gets in on Wednes­day,

[01:55:47] Cameron: Right, Chris­sy won’t be here, by the way. She’ll be in Phoenix, Ari­zona, when you get here. She’s fly­ing out on the 22nd now, I think.

[01:55:55] Tony: Okay.

[01:55:56] Cameron: Yeah, last minute deci­sion to fly to Phoenix to spend a week with her mum and her sis­ters. They’re doing like a wom­en’s, uh, get togeth­er, all of the women from her mum’s side of the fam­i­ly.

[01:56:11] Cameron: nieces and sis­ters and sis­ter in laws and what­ev­er, while her mum’s still cog­nizant enough to rec­og­nize them. Uh, cause she’s got late stage Alzheimer’s. So yeah, Chris­sy’s going over for that for a week and a

[01:56:24] Tony: Nice. Okay.

[01:56:26] Cameron: So it’ll be a boys night. I think Tay­lor will be back from LA. So it’ll just be the twins and Fox and me and you and Rud­dy.

[01:56:33] Cameron: We’ll go, I said Chris­sy would take, we’ll take Fox to his first strip club. It’ll be, it’ll be a hoot.

[01:56:38] Tony: We’ll hit the val­ley. Go to the casi­no first.

[01:56:41] Cameron: Yeah. Go to Val­ley, see if we can get glassed.

[01:56:45] Tony: Ooh, yeah. We’ll put Fox in like a flat cap and sun­glass­es and a big coat.

[01:56:52] Cameron: Top Hat. Yeah, Top Hat. Tails. The Mon­o­cle. Alright, thanks TK. Thanks, uh, for the peo­ple who sent in ques­tions. QAV a good week.

[01:57:05] Tony: Yep. Hap­py ASX peo­ple.