QAV 813 — The Mill Red Flag

QAV 813 Club Audio

Cameron: [00:00:00] Thun­der­bird’s a go. been watch­ing Joe 90

TK: Yeah. Cool.

Cameron: We can talk about that in after hours.

TK: All right.

Cameron: did tell me you watched that as a kid, right?

TK: I did loved it.

Cameron: Yeah. And it’s on YouTube. I, I showed Fox the first episode yes­ter­day. I think he kin­da liked it.

TK: Okay.

Cameron: This is QAV, uh, not Joe. 90. We’ll talk about Joe 90 lat­er.

Uh, wel­come back, tk. How’s your week been

TK: Yeah, good, busy. Lots of stuff going on. It’s been good.

Cameron: like?

TK: Went, oh, I, I was talk­ing to you before about going down and watch­ing the golf, the nation­al, um, which was good fun and real­ly relaxed tour­na­ment so they could walk up and fol­low the play­ers and walk in between them and, which is very unusu­al for a golf tour­na­ment.

So that was good. Uh, had a horse rac­ing at Flem­ing­ton on Sat­ur­day. Per­fect race in the last race and think fin­ished fifth, but it was a good run. First up. Too short but um, hit the line hard. So that was good. [00:01:00] Um, had a chat with the jock­ey after­wards. She was inter­est­ing. She’s an appren­tice at Lind­say Park and uh, I was chat­ting with the train­er and he said, just be care­ful what you say to her because she’s a box­ing cham­pi­on.

So it’s a lit­tle, uh, point sized lady was uh, has turned from box­ing to being a jock­ey. That was inter­est­ing to me. Her,

Cameron: Do you have a rep­u­ta­tion with the female jock­eys that they need to tell you to be care­ful? Tony,

TK: no, I’ve got advan­tage ’cause they’re usu­al­ly about four foot five or some­thing. So

Cameron: what are you? 6

TK: six four. Yeah. So, um,

Cameron: Hmm.

TK: yeah. Any­way, and um, Alex had her first auc­tion where she’s work­ing in Gib­son’s auc­tion house. So I went up there, I went up there a cou­ple of times dur­ing the week and had a look around. She showed me around and she was chuffed and it was great fun. And, uh,

Cameron: their auc­tion house? Where’s their place based?

TK: high Street Armadale in Mel­bourne.

Cameron: That’s right. to live there

TK: Yeah. We used to live around the [00:02:00] cor­ner Den­by Road. Hmm. Yep.

Cameron: We

TK: Yeah, I have, yeah. Head­ing up again to Mel­bourne tonight to take Jen­ny up for a, she’s got a flight ear­ly tomor­row. She’s going up to the Hunter Val­ley for a, um, board retreat. One of the com­pa­nies she’s a direc­tor of and, uh, yeah. And then it’s my birth­day on Fri­day, so we’re hav­ing a din­ner in Mel­bourne for it, so I’d slip that in.

Cameron: I have. Oh, I knew that. I’ve, I’ve

TK: Oh.

Cameron: on its way to you. A

TK: Oh, thank you.

Cameron: It prob­a­bly arrived with­out a name. ’cause I bought it online and there’s no card or any­thing. But when it arrives, you’ll know when some­thing turns up that does­n’t have a name on it. You’ll know it’s from me. And then we can talk about it next week.

TK: okay. Thank you. So just, just out of inter­est, where have you sent it with­out nam­ing address­es? Sub­urbs.

Cameron: Hey, shank.

TK: Okay. Alright, good.

Cameron: Why?

TK: Oh. ’cause our, our mail­box, our mail­box is at the end of the street and [00:03:00] they often take parcels back to the post office. But I’ll go and check it and, um,

Cameron: Oh, okay.

TK: go and col­lect it. That’s fine.

But I often don’t check the mail down here.

Cameron: right.

TK: Yeah. For a while.

Cameron: won­der if it would get to you, but we’ll see.

TK: Hmm. We will see. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much.

Cameron: Thank you very much.

TK: you very much.

Cameron: it’s uh, 62.

TK: Yes.

Cameron: 62.

TK: Yeah,

Cameron: over 61 yet.

TK: that’s ’cause I’m not, it’s on Fri­day.

Cameron: Yeah. Well, let’s talk next week. See

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: How’s your health? How’s

TK: Good.

Cameron: you had a check­up late­ly,

TK: No, haven’t even found a new doc­tor ’cause I know. I feel good. Yeah.

Cameron: Oh,

TK: I haven’t found a doc­tor down here yet. I’ve got, it’s my next thing to do. Go and get my pre­scrip­tions renewed from some­one local.

Cameron: mm Get your, get your check­up, get your, get your annu­al bloods done.

TK: Yeah. They’re not do yet for anoth­er three or four months.

Cameron: Right?

TK: Yeah. [00:04:00] Any­way. Not much,

Cameron: the,

TK: not not much going on in the stock mar­ket at the moment. Is there,

Cameron: noth­ing going on. It’s been qui­et

TK: it’s like watch­ing a roller­coast­er train wreck there, ever since Trump was elect­ed

Cameron: man.

TK: crash at the Speed­way.

Cameron: yeah,

TK: Hmm.

Cameron: just absolute crazi­ness. Um, and as we talked about last week, I think tomor­row or the sec­ond in the US as Inde­pen­dence Day, Trump calls it, they’re call­ing it Peak Fear Day. We’ll see what’s gonna hap­pen.

TK: Is he, he’s call­ing it Free­dom Day, isn’t he?

Cameron: oh, free­dom.

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: Okay. Uh, ugh. Um.

TK: as if Amer­i­ca’s enslaved some­how.

Cameron: Yeah, they’re get­ting poor Amer­i­ca. Like they’ve had it so tough since World War ii, just peo­ple pick­ing

TK: Yeah. Mm,

Cameron: left, right, and cen­ter. Um, I want to start [00:05:00] let­ting where have my, oh yeah. That, um, the light group of port­fo­lios is now beat­ing the index since

TK: that’s good.

Cameron: and also for the finan­cial year. You know, it had a, had a rough start,

TK: Mm.

Cameron: just as the Ukraine War start­ed, and it’s, a cou­ple of the port­fo­lios have been doing bet­ter than the next cou­ple.

Were way behind. of ’em still is a bit behind the first one, but it’s caught up a lot. But, um, as of this morn­ing when I checked since incep­tion, the l group of port­fo­lios was up 8.3% per annum ver­sus the index up 8% per annum. So there’s a bit of a mile­stone for me.

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: have

TK: That’s good.

Cameron: a few years, uh, caught up.

It’s been about three years real­ly

TK: And we should explain, there’s four port­fo­lios start­ed at dif­fer­ent times to give peo­ple plen­ty of options to track the one that sort of match­es them best. Yeah.

Cameron: They start­ed [00:06:00] sort of four or five months apart. And uh, for the cur­rent finan­cial year, the L group is up 9.4% per annum ver­sus the index up 4% per annum. So the index has been going back­wards for the last, you know, month or so, but the light port­fo­lios have been going from strength to strength, which is nice to see.

I did have to sell a cou­ple of stocks today. EHL, it was one of them. I think TPG was the oth­er one. But, uh, nice to see that the light group is start­ing to sta­bi­lize and find its legs and it’s like we talked about a few weeks ago, I think it’s just got enough stocks in it now that have got enough wind in their sails that, uh, it’s sort of bro­ken through a lot of the ear­ly strug­gles that it had with Rule one and three PTL death march­es, death spi­rals.

TK: I think you’re right. Not, and you know, I did some research into the dif­fer­ence between the [00:07:00] light port­fo­lios and dum­my port­fo­lio. I just think it’s the, it’s time. It’s once they get their feet under the desk and do a bit of churn­ing, and then the stocks which are gonna last and keep going up, get estab­lished.

That’s when things start to turn around for these port­fo­lios.

Cameron: Speak­ing of stocks not hav­ing the legs under­neath them, to the reject shop. It’s been, uh, on and off our buy lists since we start­ed The show did very well dur­ing Covid. I seem to recall it was one of, uh, the dum­my port­fo­lio’s, big win­ners dur­ing Covid for a while there when every­one was going to the reject shop to buy paper or what­ev­er the hell they were buy­ing dur­ing Covid. Dol­lara­ma has snapped up the reject shop for $259 mil­lion. Cana­di­an val­ue retail­er Dol­lara­ma is to acquire the reject shop in a deal val­ue. Valu­ing the lad­der [00:08:00] shares at 112% pre­mi­um. Now, just a warn­ing for peo­ple who see TRS on the buy list this week, ’cause it did pop up back on the buy list. I just make a note that it’s prob­a­bly not going much fur­ther above the, it went from like three bucks, 50 to $6 12, I think, which

TK: mm-hmm.

Cameron: um, buy price or the, the acqui­si­tion price. So it looks good, but uh, it, it won’t stay there, so,

TK: Hmm.

Cameron: a lot of upside. So that’s, um, anoth­er one gone,

TK: Reject no more. Some­one loves it.

Cameron: pre­mi­um, right? 112% pre­mi­um. What do you, what do you make of that?

TK: Oh, I haven’t got my notes in front of me. I did, I did dig it out. But, um, yeah, uh, I was sur­prised. I, I can’t see any oth­er nat­ur­al bid­der for the reject shop. Um, if it was gonna be picked up by like a Kmar or some­one like that, I think it would’ve already been picked up. Who knows? It could, it could spark anoth­er bid.

But yeah, that was a ques­tion. [00:09:00] Ana­lysts in Cana­da were ask­ing Dol­lara­ma. Um, I don’t,

Cameron: I.

TK: me just hang on for a sec. I’ll see if I can find it in last week’s notes. Uh, you talk for the peo­ple and I’ll just try and find it.

Cameron: Oh yeah, like I would’ve expect­ed that if there was a bid­ding war, you know, nor­mal­ly you see a 10% pre­mi­um or maybe a 20% pre­mi­um on the cur­rent price, but for 112% pre­mi­um, that seems exor­bi­tant. And noth­ing that I read real­ly seemed to explain it. They said that the board would unan­i­mous­ly rec­om­mend the deal to share­hold­ers, sub­ject to a rec­om­men­da­tion by an inde­pen­dent expert kin group.

The retail­er’s largest share­hold­er own­ing a 20.8% stake in tens to sup­port the bid. But no real expla­na­tion that I could see for why, uh, they were will­ing to pay through the nose fraud. There was no men­tion [00:10:00] of. Uh, com­pet­ing bids or any­thing like that was­n’t in play from what I could tell. So I don’t know.

It was sur­pris­ing to me, but if I, if any­one did hold on to the TRS group when they should have sold it when I did a year ago. Con­grat­u­la­tions. You’ve prob­a­bly done very well. If you,

TK: Yeah, I can’t, sor­ry, I can’t find it in my notes. Um, let me, let me just keep talk­ing. I’ll find It’ll be in an, in an A FR arti­cle I read.

Cameron: well, I’ll talk about some­thing else while you do that. I, uh, for peo­ple that had test­ing stock Edia, we did a US show last week and, and Tony point­ed out that he’d noticed there was a prob­lem with the price to oper­at­ing cash flow num­ber that Stock Edia was giv­ing us for one of the stocks I’d added CX to the US port­fo­lio. And when I did some deep­er analy­sis last week, I found that there was quite a lot of [00:11:00] stocks. That stock Edia had a dif­fer­ent price to oper­at­ing cash­flow ’cause they have a price to oper­at­ing cash­flow num­ber built into their analy­sis that I’ve just been using when I did a man­u­al price to oper­at­ing cash­flow for all of those. was prob­a­bly about 30% of the stocks that I looked at, uh, in the US mar­ket had a real­ly big dif­fer­en­tial, like a mas­sive dif­fer­en­tial between their report­ed prop calf the prop calf that I was cal­cu­lat­ing. So I emailed Elio dama at Stock Edia and said, Hey, can you explain this to me? And nor­mal­ly he gets back to me real­ly quick­ly and I had­n’t heard from him by yes­ter­day, like a week. um, I did some dig­ging and found out that he’s gone and Chris Bach­e­lor’s also gone. So the two

TK: Hmm.

Cameron: were run­ning Stock Edia Aus­tralia are gone.

TK: Wow.

Cameron: Phil Ello tells me they left late last year. So I reached out to Wikipedi­a’s [00:12:00] sup­port line and said, is there any­one left in the Aus­tralian team And got a reply back, no, there’s no Aus­tralian team left, all gone. So now it’s all based out­ta the UK I think. I asked the guy I was talk­ing to about this prob­lem with the prop cap and he said, oh, I’ll get some­one in our devel­op­ment team to get in touch with you. So that’s kind of con­cern­ing and dis­ap­point­ing see­ing is that I’ve spent a year rejig­ging

TK: Mm.

Cameron: check­lists around stock Edia and the guys that I was rely­ing on to be my point of con­tact there, that we have a rela­tion­ship, par­tic­u­lar­ly

TK: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: um, that’s gone back many, many years are gone. So, um, Phil Musk Ello does have a rela­tion­ship with the own­er of Stock Edia. He’s offered to

TK: Oh, real­ly?

Cameron: him, guy. By the name of Ed.

TK: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: So I might do that, reach out to Ed and what his plans are for the Aus­tralian and the US mar­ket, obvi­ous­ly, ’cause we

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: it most­ly there, but [00:13:00] I know a lot of peo­ple in our Aus­tralian audi­ence have expressed an inter­est in, uh, using Stock Edia instead of, uh, stock doc­tor. So we wan­na make sure that they’re gonna be a going enti­ty here. Um, I assume that they are and they just could­n’t jus­ti­fy

TK: Cut­ting costs.

Cameron: the, the Yeah. E Leo’s salary here and Chris’s salary for some rea­son. But, um, any­way, maybe they just did­n’t grow as much here as they hoped it would,

TK: Yeah. That’s a shame that

Cameron: a, just a,

TK: actu­al­ly if you, if, if you reach out to Ed, who I’ve heard speak on pod­cast before, he’s an excel­lent inter­view sub­ject. If we can get him on

Cameron: Okay.

TK: to go through the back, to go through the back­ground of what he calls fac­tor invest­ing, which is the ba, the basis of stock edia.

Cameron: Okay.

TK: Yeah. Uh, I did find that arti­cle on Dol­lara­ma, but it does­n’t real­ly shed much light.

Um, it says, it says, uh, in a call with ana­lyst Rossi, who’s the [00:14:00] CEO of Dol­lara­ma was ques­tioned by Cana­di­an bro­kers about the large takeover pre­mi­um. The reject shop share prices fall­en near­ly 30% over the last year, and Dol­lara­ma already has sig­nif­i­cant expan­sion plans in Mex­i­co through Dol­lar City, a dis­count retail­er at con­trols.

Rossi told the call at Dol­lar Armor intend­ed to turn the reject shop into a more reg­u­lar shop for con­sum­ables and out­lined plans to almost dou­ble the busi­ness net­work to 700 odd stores by 2034, et cetera, et cetera. So, no, it did­n’t real­ly answer the ques­tion.

Cameron: Right.

TK: yeah, I, I had some expe­ri­ence with Dol­lar Armor in Cana­da.

It’s, it’s cer­tain­ly well regard­ed over there. Um,

Cameron: Oh yeah.

TK: I. I don’t think I, I think I might’ve gone into it once though. ’cause it was, it’s like the reject shop here. It has a lot of sort of clear­ance mer­chan­dise. But, um, Alex used to go there to pick up fan­cy dress cos­tumes for, you know, Hal­loween or, um, sil­ly jumpers for Christ­mas, that [00:15:00] kind of thing.

So, um, it was a bit of the, just a bit of the retail land­scape in Cana­da. Um, if it’s, if it’s try­ing to expand the 700 odd stores though, and turn the reject shop into a more reg­u­lar shop for con­sum­ables to quote the CEO, I think they’ve got a tough, a tough road, a hoe in Aus­tralia to do that because a lot of retail ana­lysts would say Aus­tralia is over shopped now any­way.

There’s a super­mar­ket in most, many, in most sub­urbs. Um, there at the low end of the, of the. The, um, the, the mar­ket, uh, for price. So, um, it’s gonna be hard to see the reject shop dou­bling it, I guess. I’m not sure how many net­work costs, not sure how many out­lets it has in this net­work now, but 700 would be at least twice what it has.

Um, and, and then also to move into con­sum­ables, which puts it up in com­pe­ti­tion with, um, Aldi. I would’ve thought so. Uh, inter­est­ing to see what hap­pens.

Cameron: It is my [00:16:00] go-to place for Pringles Fox. Fox loves Pringles and Pringles at Kohl’s or Woolies are like six bucks for a can of Pringles, about two bucks at the

TK: Real­ly. Okay. Let past their use by day.

Cameron: Prob­a­bly. Yeah. Hey, he’s

TK: Fox is young, you’ll recov­er.

Cameron: Yeah. Yeah. He’ll be fine. Yeah.

TK: Uh, I read some­where recent­ly the guy who invent­ed Pringles was cre­mat­ed and request­ed his ash­es be put in the Pringles can.

Cameron: fair enough.

TK: Hey,

Cameron: Pringles are one of those things that I think if you buried them in a, like a time safe and you dug them up a thou­sand years from now, they’d be just as good. Like they’re just,

TK: cock­roach­es of the, of the, the food indus­try.

Cameron: Yeah. Yeah. After the nuclear war will be Kei­th Richards and Pringles that will sur­vive.

TK: That’s all we’ll have to eat. Hmm.[00:17:00]

Cameron: A cou­ple of oth­er sto­ries I read, uh, you know, last week on the show we had Chair­man MAB on and we were rip­ping into ASIC and the A SX, well, ASIC have ripped into the A SX them­selves. This week

TK: Have we start­ed a pile?

Cameron: Brief. Yeah, the Reserve Bank of Aus­tralia is reassess­ing as X’S com­pli­ance. While the cor­po­rate reg­u­la­tor has direct­ed the boss to under­take a tech­ni­cal review of chess as they teamed up to express their con­cerns over the exchanges oper­a­tional risks, the con­text, the two steps by the Cen­tral Bank and the Aus­tralian Secu­ri­ties and Invest­ment Com­mis­sion fol­low a chess batch set­tle­ment fail­ure on the 20th of Decem­ber, 2024. joint let­ter to A SX, they said they were increas­ing­ly con­cerned and deeply dis­ap­point­ed over the man­age­ment of oper­a­tional risk. At A SX, the RBA will reassess the com­pli­ance of a SX Clear and a SX set­tle­ment. [00:18:00] With the RBAs finan­cial sta­bil­i­ty stan­dards the annu­al assess­ment cycle. Mean­while, ASIC has direct­ed a SX to engage an expert approved by the reg­u­la­tor to under­take a tech­ni­cal review of chess. is expect­ed to be made pub­lic, I think this is ASIC giv­ing the As SXA. Please explain let­ter

TK: Yeah. Yeah. Well, they’re, they’re not the only ones that have giv­en the A as X, so please explain that They’re on chess. I mean, it’s been a deba­cle for the last three or four years, at least

Cameron: years. This

TK: years. Yeah. Well, and it goes back to when Elma, funky Coop­er used to run the place, and he thought, uh, replac­ing chess with a blockchain based sys­tem was the way to go.

And they invest­ed Alma Funky Coop­er. Yeah,

Cameron: Coop­er.

TK: well, funky Kapa, I think you pro­nounce it. Yeah,

Cameron: Funky. Was that one

TK: he’s,

Cameron: was his last name.

TK: yeah. Yeah. He’s, he’s, Dutch

Cameron: Oh,

TK: to work at a NZ with Jen­ny, so I’ve met him a cou­ple of times, but, um,

Cameron: Right.[00:19:00]

TK: he, yeah. F‑U-N-K‑E dash K‑U-P-P-E‑R.

Cameron: We were talk­ing about Arrest­ed Devel­op­ment before. That’s, uh, Tobias Funke is David Cross’s. Char­ac­ter’s

TK: Oh

Cameron: Funke. Any­way, yes. Funky Coop­er.

TK: Yep. Um, thought blockchain was the way to go. Um, did­n’t, did­n’t work out then. Ever since then, A A SX CEOs have either been try­ing to make blockchain work or try and think of a way to, to crater and write off the a hun­dred mil­lion dol­lars plus that they’ve spent thus far. Um, mean­while we still get snail mail every quar­ter of our A SX chess trans­ac­tions, um, which is a very old fash­ioned way of doing it.

Maybe, maybe a SX is keep­ing Aus­tralia Post alive. Prob­a­bly the only thing left that sends things through the mail. Um, so yeah, the cur­rent CEOI don’t think has worked out. I think she said that they’ve ditched the blockchain, um, but has­n’t come up with a replace­ment yet. And mean­while, the cur­rent sys­tem is just creak­ing at the [00:20:00] seams and needs to be patched up and fixed.

Cameron: I just think it thought it was hilar­i­ous that last week we were say­ing why isn’t the A SX doing more to pun­ish these com­pa­nies that aren’t doing con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sure? And then a cou­ple of days lat­er I read that ASCA smack an A SX around for not being able to do their job prop­er­ly. So, you know,

TK: Yeah, and I think that’s the prob­lem. Um,

Cameron: show.

TK: the, the rumors I’m hear­ing out­ta the A SXR, that they are so focused on chess, that noth­ing else is get­ting done prop­er­ly and chess isn’t get­ting done prop­er­ly, so noth­ing’s get­ting done prop­er­ly.

Cameron: That’s what Mag­nus Carl­son says too. Chess isn’t being done prop­er­ly. It’s too easy.

All right. Well, uh, that’s all I’ve got for now. I do, I’ve got some oth­er stuff lat­er, but yeah. What, what have you got on your list of talk­ing points? Tony?

TK: That’s quite a few. Uh, so, uh, a, uh, accent one, which has been on our bio [00:21:00] list for quite a while as well, on and off. Um, there’s some­thing fun­ny going on with it. When I say fun­ny, I mean it’s pos­si­bly good for share­hold­ers, but, uh, uh, FRAs Group, which is a, anoth­er retail­er based in the uk who own House of Fras­er, which is kind of like a, my depart­ment store from the uk

Cameron: say accent one or do you mean the accent group?

TK: accent group, I think. The accent group and their, what’s their code? Ax one, I think.

Cameron: right.

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: to Access one. That’s an IT com­pa­ny.

TK: Sor­ry. Accent group. Yep.

Cameron: Group.

TK: A X one.

Cameron: shoe com­pa­ny, right.

TK: Uh, shoe retail­er? Cor­rect.

Cameron: Yeah.

TK: So, uh, Fraser’s took a stake, um, in them, uh, in August of last year. They bought 14.65% and it’s, it was men­tioned in, uh, the A FR last week, or sor­ry, on Mon­day this week that, uh, house of Fras­er or Fraser’s Group is look­ing to up [00:22:00] their share­hold­ing to 19.99, which puts them just under the thresh­old for launch­ing a takeover of the com­pa­ny.

Um, no announce­men­t’s come out yet, so not sure if it’s just a rumor, but, um, I. What’s, what’s behind this? Well, Fraser’s Own Sports Direct, which is a large retail­er, uh, from the UK own sport­ing appar­el, obvi­ous­ly. Um, they’re only a avail­able online so far in Aus­tralia, and it’s part of this rumor is that, uh, accent Group will help with the dis­tri­b­u­tion at least of sports direc­tor retail stores when they get estab­lished in Aus­tralia.

So it’s a bit of a watch this space. But, um, you know, a cou­ple of things there. If, if Accent Group has a sub 20% cor­ner­stone investor who’s anoth­er retail­er on, uh, as a share­hold­er. There could be a tie up, it could lead to a bid at some stage. Um, that’s the first thing to note. The sec­ond thing [00:23:00] to note is just what if Sports Direct does launch in Aus­tralia with a retail pres­ence?

Just what that means for Rebel Sports. It’s, um, would be its main com­peti­tor, I think. Uh, so that’s anoth­er watch this space for that stock, which has also been on and off the buy list over the years. So one to what I was gonna talk about New Hope Group last week, um, when it released its prof­its, um, as part of the prof­it roundup, uh, because, uh, inter­est­ing­ly enough, their shares went up after their results, which were quite good.

Uh. And this is from the A FRA cou­ple of weeks ago, fol­low­ing the results you hope shares sawed almost 9%. Yes­ter­day after chief Exec­u­tive Rob Bish­op announced a $100 mil­lion share buy­back and said the sharp slump­ing coal prices in recent years had run its cost. Bish­op pre­dict­ed coal prices would sta­bi­lize over the next few months after he deliv­ered a 35% rise in new hopes half year prof­it to 340 [00:24:00] mil­lion.

The opti­mistic tone on coal prices and a bumper set of share­hold­er returns lift­ed. New Hope shares almost 9%, 4 0 3 yes­ter­day. Share­hold­ers will also receive a 19 cent ful­ly franked inter­im div­i­dend on April nine. Uh, an increase from the 17 cent div­i­dend paid in the same peri­od last year. Uh, so goes on to talk about that in detail.

The inter­est­ing thing I think was that, uh, I think new hope. It may have gone up, but it has­n’t gone on with that price rise. I think coal is still a sell in the com­mod­i­ty neck­lace from mem­o­ry. Um, but, but on every oth­er met­ric, new hope has been on the, um, on the buy list. So on the off chance, this guy’s right, and you’d expect to, he would know a lot about the coal indus­try.

Um, and his main argu­ment was that, uh, with coal fetch­ing

Cameron: I.

TK: around $96 us, uh, a ton, um, that price was meant that about, uh, 10 to [00:25:00] 15% of peo­ple were los­ing mon­ey in the mar­ket. So that, um, is often a turn­ing point for a mar­ket when pro­duc­ers are sell­ing below costs. So we’ll see if the price sta­bi­lizes in co coal.

So, watch this space. Want­ed to fol­low up on MIUs resources. Um, again, we focused on this one because of its, uh, con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sure. Issues when it was announc­ing its results, but did­n’t announce the 10 year review it had done of one of its main mines. And then that dropped to, uh, about a week lat­er, and the share price tanked.

And then they said they were gonna fix up the prob­lem by acquir­ing anoth­er com­pa­ny, Spar­tan Resources. And that dropped about a week lat­er as well. So what, you know, and I’ve, I’ve debat­ed whether it’s just, um, sequenc­ing. And that they were try­ing to, um, do every­thing cor­rect by con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sure or what­ev­er.

They should have announced things ear­li­er than they did, and I guess we will nev­er know. But stock Doc­tor took the view that they [00:26:00] would take them off their star stock list and, um, to quote from their email about it. Fol­low­ing your review of recent events sur­round­ing Gold Pro­duc­er Amelia Resources, we have decid­ed to remove the stock from our star gross stock uni­verse, and this is going back to the 19th of March.

By the way, on the sur­face this, the acqui­si­tion of Spar­tan Resources make strate­gic sense. Spar­tan’s key assets include the nev­er, nev­er and Pep­per gold deposits, which are part of the Dell Garanga project, as well as the stand­alone Rebec­ca Road project locat­ed one 50 kilo­me­ters east of Kal­go­or­lie. Et cetera, et cetera.

Del Del Garanga is sit­u­at­ed just 65 kilo­me­ters from MIUs as Mount Mag­net Mill offer­ing poten­tial oper­a­tional syn­er­gies. Uh, how­ev­er, we believe the risks out­weigh the poten­tial rewards. Spar­tan is not prof­itable. Mean­ing MIUs is tak­ing on a com­pa­ny that will imme­di­ate­ly weigh on finan­cial per­for­mance rather than con­tribute to cash flow.

Uh, RMS has announced a $2.4 bil­lion acqui­si­tion of Spar­tan Resources through a share heavy scheme of [00:27:00] arrange­ment, sig­nif­i­cant­ly dilut­ing exist­ing share­hold­ers. And MIUs has lat­est map mag­net mine fore­cast plan, uh, pro­duc­tion of 140 kilo ounces per year. About 20% below pre­vi­ous esti­mates, the total CapEx has increased to eight 23 mil­lion, far exceed­ing the pri­or four 20 mil­lion fore­cast.

In addi­tion, RMS plans and 95 mil­lion expan­sion at Mount Mag­net to three mega mega­tons per annum, but through­out through­put expect­ed to drop to 2.5 mega­tons per annum. Long term due to hard­er ore from arid is one of its oth­er. Uh, mines. This has sparked earn­ings down­grades and rais­es con­cerns about cost con­trol.

And last­ly, stock doc­tor’s com­ment is man­age­ment cred­i­bil­i­ty. RMS failed to dis­close key oper­a­tional short­falls along­side its finan­cial results three weeks ago, forc­ing investors to digest both the dilu­tive acqui­si­tion and the weak­er pro­duc­tion out­look simul­ta­ne­ous­ly. This is under­mined con­fi­dence and man­age­men­t’s duty of dis­clo­sure, [00:28:00] but they kind of agreed with what, um, my thoughts were on MIUs.

How­ev­er, the mar­ket isn’t because the share price is up from its slows. I think it’s about $2 38 now.

Cameron: Mm.

TK: Um, I know you have a ques­tion from Ed about con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sure red flags, so maybe we can expand on that when we get to ques­tions, but, um, yeah, uh, got some thoughts on that, but, um, yeah, let’s wait until we talk about that.

Cameron: Okay.

TK: I was gonna talk about Helia, but I believe that was part of Ed’s ques­tion, so I’ll leave it till then.

Uh, last­ly from the Results Digest, uh, NZM, New Zealand media nz me, I think is its title, uh, their results, um, were good or bet­ter than expect­ed any­way. Um, share price up 12% fol­low­ing the announce­ment. Uh, and the. The local papers over in New Zealand said media com­pa­ny [00:29:00]NZME has report­ed a full year net loss after tak­ing a non-cash write down of 24 mil­lion on its pub­lish­ing assets, along with a drop in under­ly­ing prof­it.

The own­er of the New Zealand Herd and var­i­ous radio sta­tions, includ­ing News Talk ZB said there had been a slow­er than antic­i­pat­ed mar­ket recov­ery of its com­mu­ni­ties, pub­li­ca­tions, although the white write down did not affect its cash­flow or oper­at­ing prof­it. Key num­bers for the year 2024 com­pared with a year ago, net loss of 16 mil­lion ver­sus a 12 mil­lion net prof­it rev­enue.

Fair­ly sta­ble, three 45 mil­lion ver­sus three 40. Under­ly­ing prof­it, rea­son­ably sta­ble, 54 mil­lion ver­sus 56 expens­es up a lit­tle bit. 2 96 ver­sus two 90 final div­i­dend flat. Despite the chal­leng­ing eco­nom­ic con­di­tions, the com­pa­ny said oper­at­ing rev­enue was up 2% with net debt at the mid­dle of its tar­get range.

Dig­i­tal rev­enue growth helped boost the over­all result with one roof rev­enue up 51%. So one roof is like a [00:30:00] domain or a realestate uh, dot com, which is part of this group. And I think that’s where the, the prize is much the same with the, um, chan­nel nine com­pa­ny here own­ing domain, which is, um, in play at the moment.

Uh. I think, um, if I go skip down here a bit to focus on that, uh, one of the ana­lysts in New Zealand said they’ll look at the poten­tial sep­a­ra­tion of one roof to a sep­a­rate busi­ness, um, an inde­pen­dent board, uh, as being part of it. I think it would still clear­ly be part of NZ me in the short to medi­um term, but I think all options are open as to the review on where the long term takes.

It’s actu­al­ly, that was the CEO, uh, he goes on to talk about that. So, et cetera, et cetera. There, there’s been a lot of activ­i­ty, cor­po­rate activ­i­ty with this com­pa­ny. So at one stage they were try­ing to merge with, uh, stuff anoth­er New Zealand, uh, news provider, uh, and online, uh, space in New Zealand. Um, and [00:31:00] there was some­thing in the arti­cle from 21st of March, uh, I.

It. This is about, um, the head­line is Response to Spec­u­la­tion regard­ing a poten­tial trans­ac­tion involv­ing Stuff. This is a, uh, issued by an NZ me. Um, nz me is aware of spec­u­la­tion in the mar­ket that NZ me has been in dis­cus­sions with stuff lim­it­ed in rela­tion to a poten­tial trans­ac­tion. N nz me e con­firms it has had dis­cus­sions with stuff since last, since late 2024.

Um, in rela­tion to the poten­tial acqui­si­tion of dig­i­tal and print assets with the stuff Mas­ter Headss busi­ness, the strate­gic ratio­nale for any trans­ac­tion was accel­er­a­tion of one roof’s rev­enue and audi­ence, par­tic­u­lar­ly in Welling­ton and the South Island, et cetera, et cetera. It goes on to say that, um, uh, that those, those, uh.

Dis­cus­sions had been put on hold part­ly because of the reg­u­la­tor tak­ing an inter­est, but then, uh, out of left field. [00:32:00] Anoth­er, um, arti­cle about a Cana­di­an bil­lion­aire lin­ing up share­hold­er sup­port to roll the cur­rent board of NZME. Uh, and so again, quot­ing from local Press, the Cana­di­an-born bil­lion­aire seek­ing to replace the Board of Media firm, NZME, is deflect­ing on the ques­tion of whether he would respect this edi­to­r­i­al inde­pen­dence.

This is from, um, the, uh, quote from the head of the Elec­tri­cal trade Union over there. Uh, Jim Gran is the Cana­di­an bil­lion­aire seek­ing, uh. To, uh, who owns 10% of NZME seek­ing to roll the board, and he appears at least with­in strik­ing dis­tance of gar­ner­ing suf­fi­cient votes at the com­pa­ny’s A GM on April 29 to seize board­room con­trol of the firm for him­self and three oth­er direc­tors.

He has nom­i­nat­ed Gren­nan has said he wants NZME, which owns the New Zealand Her­ald and about half the coun­try’s com­mer­cial radio sta­tions to appeal to a wider polit­i­cal spec­trum. One share­hold­er who was back­ing Gren­nan is Troy Ker, [00:33:00] a wealthy Kiwi who has been a fer­ous oppo­nent of a cap­i­tal gains tax.

Gren­nan has said the main dri­ver for the attempt­ed board­room co was dis­sat­is­fac­tion with the com­pa­ny’s oper­a­tional per­for­mance. Matt Book­er. Port­fo­lio Asset Man­ag­er of Aus­tralian I, investor Supe­ri­or Asset Man­age­ment, which is NZ me’s largest share­hold­er with a 19% hold­ing. Appears to have accept­ed that and is antic­i­pat­ing Supe­ri­or, will sup­port Bren­nan’s res­o­lu­tions at the annu­al meet­ing.

He says any­one who thinks that he’s not there to make mon­ey for him­self and the rest of the share­hold­ers would be kid­ding him­self. Book­er said not­ing Green had invest­ed near­ly 20 mil­lion of his own share­hold­ing. So it’s, um, I guess I watched this space. Uh, it’s, uh, been on our bio list, uh, on and off be before as well, so peo­ple might hold it in the port­fo­lios.

Um, might be in for a bit of a rocky ride going for­ward in the next month any­way, but pay atten­tion to your alerts, I guess, uh, read­ing between the lines of that, uh, quote from [00:34:00] the ETU ask­ing ques­tions of Jim Green, and I sus­pect that, uh, he wants to stiff the, um, the edi­to­r­i­al a bit to the right com­pared to where it is cur­rent­ly.

Cameron: He, I’m just look­ing this guy up. James Grin lives in Auck­land. He’s Cana­di­an born, moved to Auck­land in 2012. Accord­ing to this arti­cle in stuff from ear­li­er in March, Gib­bons Road prop­er­ty he owns is one of the most expen­sive in the coun­try with a homes.co nz esti­mate of $14.6 mil­lion. Try­ing to work out. he made his mon­ey in. Do you know you

TK: No, I don’t.

Cameron: Oh.

TK: sor­ry.

Cameron: He’s the founder and advi­sor of Tom Cap­i­tal Man­age­ment in Cana­da, which start­ed in 1995. The com­pa­ny large­ly takes inter­est in oil and gas, finan­cial ser­vices, man­u­fac­tur­ing, and real estate sec­tors accord­ing to its web­site. He was also the com­pa­ny direc­tor of the [00:35:00] Cen­trist until August, 2023.

The news web­site said its pur­pose was to present under­served per­spec­tives chal­lenge main­stream media. Gee, under­served per­spec­tives. I won­der

TK: He might be the Joe Rogan of Auck­land.

Cameron: Yeah. More like the uh, yeah. Rupert

TK: social.

Cameron: Hmm. Well, yeah. Okay. Hmm.

TK: Oh, look, I don’t know, I’m, I’m, I’m just draw­ing from what I’ve read, but, uh, no one’s come out and said he’s gonna move edi­to­r­i­al to the right. But, um, that seems to be the col­or­ing of the com­ments that are com­ing out alleged­ly. Uh, yeah, like and Cana­da is, uh, sor­ry. New Zealand has had a lot of influx from North Amer­i­can bil­lion­aires who see, um, it is a safe place to hun­ker down if there’s a prob­lem in the world.

Cameron: Mm-hmm.

TK: it the bunker strat­e­gy, which is to de decamp to New Zealand and build a bunker. But when the end of the world comes,

Cameron: mm-hmm.

TK: [00:36:00] and I think from mem­o­ry, I read some­where the cur­rent gov­ern­ment was now crack­ing down on that and stop­ping over­seas peo­ple from pur­chas­ing. Expen­sive homes in New Zealand.

Cameron: It’s just the Shire they’ve tak­en over The Shire. All the Hob­bit hous­es that they’re gonna hide in were for the Hob­bits or did it? I’m not sure. I fell asleep in Lord of the Rings. I’m not sure the Hob­bit sur­vived or not. Dun­no.

TK: Yeah, I think they did.

Cameron: Okay.

TK: And they steal it. Smogs gold or some­thing, or smell, I think. Yeah. Yeah.

Cameron: bor­ing movies in all of his­to­ry, I, I, I can sit through a three hour Bonkers Hol­ly a Bol­ly­wood film, but I can’t sit through a Lord of the Rings. It’s just not enough dance sequences in it, maybe.

TK: Mm.

Cameron: What else? RBA meet­ing today,

TK: RBA meet­ing now, so we should be able to Google their result fair­ly soon. Um, most peo­ple think it’s gonna be a hold, even though there’s enough eco­nom­ic data to sug­gest there’s a rate cut com­ing, [00:37:00] uh, as infla­tion is back in the r b’s range, uh, at the moment. But the RBA will be low to change rates dur­ing an elec­tion cam­paign, which would be seen as being polit­i­cal.

Cameron: accord­ing to the

TK: uh,

Cameron: the Reserve Bank has held the offi­cial cash rate at 4.1% as wide­ly expect­ed.

TK: there you go.

Cameron: There you go.

TK: Yeah. Ever since the, the RBA,

Cameron: I.

TK: uh, I think they raise rates in the 2007 fed­er­al elec­tion, which was seen as the end of the Howard Gov­ern­ment, um, and a vote by the RBA on on the eco­nom­ic man­age­ment of the Howard gov­ern­ment.

Cameron: Mm.

TK: Yeah. So no, just the pulled pork.

Cameron: Well, I had a cou­ple of oth­er notes left over from last week. Um, IDI don’t think we talked about them last week. They were on the top of our buy list last week

TK: Real­ly

Cameron: and yeah. Uh, I’d nev­er real­ly heard of them

TK: [00:38:00] no.

Cameron: Um, I went to pick them up. Uh, just bit of back­ground, just pulling them up on stock. Doc­tor. They are, um. Indi­ana Resources Lim­it­ed. They are a rare earth­’s com­pa­ny, pri­mar­i­ly focused on advanc­ing explo­ration ten­e­ments, includ­ing gold and base met­als options in South Aus­tralia, cen­tral Gol­er, Gol­er, Creighton Province. Um, but when I was gonna add them to a port­fo­lio last week, I saw this in stock doc­tor from Octo­ber, 2024.

The secu­ri­ties of the fol­low­ing enti­ties will be sus­pend­ed from quo­ta­tion under list­ing Rule 17 from the com­mence­ment of trad­ing on the 1st of Octo­ber, 2024, for not lodg­ing the rel­e­vant peri­od­ic report by the due date. If the report is lodged between the clo­sure of the mar­ket announce­ments office on the 30th, Sep­tem­ber, 2024, and [00:39:00] the impo­si­tion of the sus­pen­sion, enti­ty secu­ri­ties will nor­mal­ly be rein­stat­ed to quo­ta­tion on the next trad­ing day after the sus­pen­sion is imposed. They were rein­stat­ed on the same day,

TK: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: but in terms of our recent red flag dis­cus­sions vis-a-vis report­ing, I was think­ing if a com­pa­ny can’t even get its finan­cial report­ing on time and gets threat­ened with sus­pen­sion, is that a bad sign?

TK: I think it prob­a­bly is. Yeah. I’m not sure if it’s a, a red flag. Um, I’m just look­ing up the, have you checked it for a qual­i­fied audit? ’cause that’s often the rea­son why accounts are put in late is ’cause the audi­tors won’t sign off on them. I’m just look­ing for that now.

Cameron: I don’t know if I did

TK: Here we go.

Cameron: far with them. ’em

TK: And

no, don’t give it a clean bill of health.

Cameron: who does We do

TK: No, the audit. The audit is due. Do,

Cameron: Oh, you’ve pulled it up [00:40:00] already.

TK: yeah.

Cameron: Yeah. Any­way, I don’t know, man, with this report­ing stuff late­ly, any­one that’s like tardy even just get­ting their finan­cial report­ing, let alone con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sure, I’m think­ing it’s a bad sign. I, I think we need to, I. Put a penal­ty score in for we’re doing qual well, the qual­i­ty assess­ment, right?

We’re try­ing

TK: Yep.

Cameron: the qual­i­ty of the man­age­ment, not being, not

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: your finan­cials in on time and hav­ing to get threat­ened with a sus­pen­sion from quo­ta­tion isn’t a good sign. That man­age­ment knows what’s going on. We’re able to run a tight ship.

TK: Look, I agree with you, and it’s a bit of a moot point with IDA ’cause they’re in a trad­ing hold again today or from,

Cameron: Oh real­ly?

TK: from the 31st of March. What was that yes­ter­day? Yeah. Um, the dif­fi­cul­ty I’m hav­ing with, with all of this is that, yeah, from a cor­po­rate gov­er­nance point of view and con­tin­u­ous [00:41:00] dis­clo­sure, it’s not good.

But if you look at the shared price, it dropped after that, but it’s going back up again. So when do we take it off? The naughty list, I guess is where I’m try­ing to work out. Well, I’m try­ing to work out.

Cameron: it was placed in a trad­ing halt yes­ter­day. On at the request of IDA pend­ing

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: it, releas­ing an announce­ment?

TK: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: Well, I don’t know. Uh, is it a sec­ond byline, like a Josephine mech­a­nism?

TK: Well, this is get­ting, okay, so this is the, this is the, um, ques­tion that Ed’s ask­ing, fol­low­ing Hillier’s

Cameron: Yes.

TK: drop in share price. Um, when they, they announced that, uh, the Com­mon­wealth Bank was nego­ti­at­ing with a ven­dor to replace the he, uh, heier as the provider of mort­gage insur­ance to lenders. And the share price dropped dra­mat­i­cal­ly.

But a few days before that, the CEO sold the whole swag­ger shares. Um, [00:42:00] so you can’t, you can’t real­ly ping helia for con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sure on los­ing the con­tract ’cause they flagged it last year and then they announced it as soon as they could. But the fact the CEO sold shares before­hand, I think is a bad look and a red flag for me.

Um, ed com­pares it to Qan­tas when Alan Joyce sold his shares. And if you go back and look at Qan­tas, um. That was a trig­ger for the share price decline, but they are now back on the buy list as well, uh, with a new CEO uh, some 18 months since the shares were sold. So my thought has been to red flag them. If the CEO sells us swag­ger shares, espe­cial­ly if it comes before an announce­ment of bad news, um, we’re prob­a­bly gonna be sell­ing on the down­turn because there are far quick­er fund man­agers than we will be at, at sell­ing out.

So like if you look at Heal, you’re at drop 20 to 30%, [00:43:00] um, as soon as the news came out in the same day. Uh, but at least we’re get­ting out because of the, because of the, that as being a red flag. The ques­tion in my mind is when did we get back in and I had thought. When it becomes a buy again, so you fol­low sen­ti­ment.

But I was burnt in this report­ing sea­son by FMG, who we red flagged last year because of CFOs leav­ing and the CEO leav­ing. Um, but then it became a buy again just before its results. And iron all became a buy briefly. And, um, then the results came out and it cre­at­ed, so that was­n’t the right time to buy.

It was still real­ly a red flag. And if you look at re MIUs and if you adopt the same sort of strat­e­gy, you would’ve sold out at two 20, and now the shares are around two 40. So, uh, and it’s a buy the whole time. Um, so I’m real­ly not sure, I’m, I’m sure of, I, I think we should red flag con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sures or cor­po­rate gov­er­nance, um, issues

Cameron: Mm-hmm.

TK: breach­es.

The [00:44:00] ques­tion for me is when do we take the red flag down? And, and I’m not sure of when that is. I

Cameron: When the CEOs replaced

TK: pos­si­bly.

Cameron: because it’s a, it’s a integri­ty and char­ac­ter and pro­fes­sion­al­ism ques­tion of the man­age­ment real­ly, isn’t it?

TK: C slash chair­man I think because in, um, for the ski met­als as it’s real­ly twig­gy for­est, who was, who’s still there, but the CEO left and the CFO left, so you can’t real­ly, if you use the CEO replace­ment there, it’s not real­ly help­ful.

Cameron: And you’re a big fan of Twig­gy

TK: Yeah,

Cameron: You’ve

TK: yeah.

Cameron: nice things about Twig­gy

TK: Yeah. And I haven’t recent­ly,

Cameron: drop­ping off

TK: maybe that’s the red flag.

As soon as I nom­i­nate some­one for, uh, saint­hood

Cameron: Well, don’t you have a, don’t you have a, like my light announce­ment? Don’t you have a, um, pulled pork, uh, announce­ment?

TK: I do. Yes. So like your light announce­ment, [00:45:00] I think, um, you put togeth­er a list of pulled porks and I, I’ve been track­ing its per­for­mance ver­sus the, uh, SDW and it’s now doing dou­ble mar­ket. Um, since we start­ed track­ing that, I.

Cameron: f from the date that you do the pulled pork?

TK: Yeah. But, um, but what it’s a, it’s a buy and hold port­fo­lio. I haven’t tried to trade it using sen­ti­ment or any­thing like that,

Cameron: yeah, yeah.

TK: but there’s plen­ty of

Cameron: that the pulled pork curse is not real­ly a curse.

TK: short term it is long term. It’s not,

Cameron: So we, we need a, like if, if you do a pulled pork three PTL and rule one cells cease, it’s, uh, because the, it’s oth­er­wise you’re gonna sell it

TK: well, you got­ta, and you got­ta buy them all because some, some go down 60 or 70% and some dou­ble, so it’s, yeah.

Cameron: pulled pork port­fo­lio, the

TK: Hmm

Cameron: pork port­fo­lio,

TK: hmm.

Cameron: and hold long term strat­e­gy. Ignore the rules.

TK: Yeah. [00:46:00] Yeah. Go back to being an old school val­ue investor, War­ren Buf­fet val­ue investor. Yeah.

Cameron: and hold for­ev­er.

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: And then A GFC will, hap will hap­pen

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: down by 50% for 10 years.

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: Mm. Stay there. Don’t do what? Any­thing We, I just said peo­ple. I was kid­ding. There was a joke. Don’t do that. But good to know. back to Ed’s, uh, and HLI and red flags. So there, look, I do think this is a thing, um, know, qual­i­ty and val­ue.

I mean, my

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: of the qual­i­ty side of this is we are using con­sis­tent­ly increas­ing equi­ty and, uh, oth­er met­rics like that to try and get a, an indi­ca­tion about the qual­i­ty of the man­age­ment. ’cause we wan­na buy shares in com­pa­nies that are being rel­a­tive­ly well run. If there are indi­ca­tors, objec­tive [00:47:00] indi­ca­tors, which aren’t nec­es­sar­i­ly num­bers based in this case, but we have objec­tive indi­ca­tors that the man­age­ment is, um, per­haps a lit­tle bit shod­dy or shon­ky, um, we should steer clear of it.

TK: I think you’re right. Um, what, where I’m strug­gling is, okay, here’s my think­ing that we read. The red flag is a, is a sell and per­haps a do do not buy, but when do we take the red flag off? That’s, that’s the area I’m strug­gling with.

Cameron: Well, when the

TK: I.

Cameron: changes and proves itself. Yeah. I

TK: sen­ti­ment returns

Cameron: Well,

TK: because sen­ti­ment nev­er went away for Amelias it, it became a Josephine, but it’s back to being a buy­er, for exam­ple. Yeah. And look, it, it’s,

Cameron: that.

TK: it’s an cor­po­rate gov­er­nance is always an inter­est­ing dis­cus­sion because there are peo­ple out there who are suc­cess­ful and expe­ri­enced through hate cor­po­rate gov­er­nance.

Typ­i­cal­ly it’s an own­er, founder. [00:48:00] Um, and then you’ve got­ta make Yeah,

Cameron: have to re, I should­n’t have to explain myself to any­one.

TK: yeah, exact­ly. Um, and I’m just gonna move fast and break things. So

Cameron: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

TK: it’s always a tough one for me. Do you fol­low what the busi­ness does or do you fol­low what the per­son run­ning the busi­ness does or are they inter­linked and, but I like your idea of putting a neg­a­tive score in the buy list. So if it’s a good com­pa­ny with good prospects.

Because like if you look at MIUs, right? It’s gonna be hard for any­one not to make mon­ey dur­ing the gold boom we’ve been hav­ing.

Cameron: Mm-hmm.

TK: Um, so, uh, if we red flag MIUs and we wait­ed for a change of man­age­ment, it would­n’t both­er me. ’cause there were plen­ty of oth­er gold stocks, gold min­ing stocks on the BO list to buy.

Um, but are we, you know, cut­ting our nose off the s spite their face. And what do we had anoth­er lis­ten­er ask the ques­tion that they’re a Spar­tan resources hold­er, and what do they do when MIUs takes them over? Should they keep shares and ramia or should they sell? If it’s a [00:49:00] red flag, you’d have to con­sid­er sell­ing.

But Elias Share price is now going up again. So should they not do that? It’s, that’s where I’m hav­ing a dilem­ma.

Cameron: Yeah, but like of our rules, like our rule one rule, our three PTL rule, they don’t work a hun­dred per­cent of the time.

TK: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: to min­i­mize risk, um, to get us out, uh, of sit­u­a­tions where out­ta 10 times it could sta­tis­ti­cal­ly go bad, right?

TK: Yep. No, you’re right.

Cameron: So this is just fits that kind of I think this is just a, like a CEO or a CFO leav­ing.

It’s just a, an indi­ca­tor of prob­lem. At the mill,

TK: Yep. And I guess.

Cameron: there’s a portable mill. [00:50:00] No

TK: Uh,

Cameron: a Span­ish acqui­si­tion.

TK: um, okay. So look, I, I accept that, um, and bad news often trav­els in three. So if these com­pa­nies have had one hit, they’ll prob­a­bly have oth­er hits and, and it’ll do some, some oth­er sil­ly things. Uh, so hap­py to, to red flag them. The ques­tion then is what’s, you know, how do we code it? And what’s, what’s even the rule for the red flag?

Is it, uh, is it a breach of cor­po­rate gov­er­nance? Is it as spe­cif­ic as CEO sales before bad news comes out? Is it not, not a vain con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sure in our opin­ion? What, what are the rules around it, I guess,

Cameron: Yeah,

TK: leave it loosey goosey? It’s bad cor­po­rate gov­er­nance as we see it.

Cameron: yeah, I think it’s that, um, I think it’s an evolv­ing, process that we mon­i­tor and we’ll prob­a­bly end up with a cou­ple of cat­e­gories. Like we have sud­den CEO res­ig­na­tion, sud­den [00:51:00] CFO res­ig­na­tion. We have qual­i­fied audit.

TK: Sud­den inde­pen­dent direc­tor’s res­ig­na­tion.

Cameron: Yeah. Okay. Sud­den inde­pen­dent direc­tor’s res­ig­na­tion. Um, and we add these to the list, like CEO sells stock before bad results come out. Um, lack of con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sure, time­ly con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sure, and like IDA, um, inabil­i­ty of man­age­ment to get their results in time.

TK: Yep. Fair enough.

Cameron: end up, we end up with a dozen or so, um, indi­ca­tors that there are prob­lems at the mill and

TK: we’re get­ting a check­list on, on cor­po­rate gov­er­nance.

Cameron: Yeah,

TK: maybe that’s the way to do it, is to score it some­how on

Cameron: I’m just gonna call it the mill list

TK: the mildest.

Cameron: Yeah, yeah,

TK: Okay.

Cameron: Prob­lems at the mill. Um, [00:52:00] because, and I, and you made a good point before, it’s not like there’s usu­al­ly a lack of things to buy.

TK: Yeah,

Cameron: Why buy.

TK: I

Cameron: Shares in com­pa­nies where there are man­age­ment con­cerns, when there are oth­er options. We’re not Buf­fet, not like we’ve got $3 tril­lion we have to invest in, you know, there’s just not a lot of options. mean, there is for you, I mean, you, you, you have a small­er list to play in than most of us, but for most of us, there’s, there are always a dozen options each week

TK: Right.

Cameron: buy. And except in times like right now where

TK: Every­thing’s a Josephine.

Cameron: every­thing’s down, well, they’re

TK: Mm.

Cameron: day, if not a Josephine. Um, to sell a cou­ple of things in the US port­fo­lio today, and there was noth­ing to buy ’cause every­thing’s hav­ing a down day or was when I ran it, um, on Fri­day. So, um, yeah, it, it, I would say [00:53:00] just steer clear of com­pa­nies with red lights flash­ing above them, you know, and buy some­thing else.

TK: And okay, so do we take them off the bio list or do we just note it on the bio list that we put out?

Cameron: Well,

TK: That peo­ple make their own mind up? Because peo­ple have dif­fer­ent views on cor­po­rate gov­er­nance too, right? There are fans of Elon Musk and there are crit­ics of Elon Musk, for exam­ple. Yeah.

Cameron: I mean, I think peo­ple can make up their own mind. I, I keep a run­ning list of thing com­pa­nies that we’ve dis­cussed. ’cause I’ve, you know, I have mem­o­ry of a gold­fish, so we can talk about some­thing on a Tues­day and by Wednes­day I’ve for­got­ten that we talked about it. And, uh, I’ll buy it.

So I have to keep a run­ning list of notes in my buy list that pop up red flags. Um, like IDA for exam­ple, I put some­thing in for IDA, uh, last week. so yeah. Um, I think we can keep a list, like I can add a list to the buy list of com­pa­nies that we’ve red [00:54:00] flagged and why we red flagged it and we can review. From time to time, if they come back up on the buy list, like that’d prob­a­bly be the way to do it. So if we red flag it, and I have a, a note in my buy list that, you know, will pop it up. If they, if they appear back on the buy list six months lat­er and there’s a red flag against them dat­ed from six months pri­or go, okay, well let’s review it and see if it’s time to remove the red flag or

TK: But we think, but we think the red flag was removed when the either the chair or the CEO has been replaced.

Cameron: Well, depend­ing on what the red flag is. But yes, in, in these sorts of things that we’re talk­ing about, seri­ous c cor­po­rate gov­er­nance con­cerns, um. Yeah, we’d want to see that the com­pa­ny has addressed those in some way. So

TK: That’s, yeah,

Cameron: it been raised at a share­hold­er [00:55:00] meet­ing? Has the CEO or the chair­per­son been replaced because of a result of cor­po­rate gov­er­nance con­cerns and the new incom­ing admin­is­tra­tion has said that they’re gonna put togeth­er a crack team to improve their, uh, posi­tion on this stuff?

Or is it,

TK: which was cer­tain­ly the case at Qan­tas. So that works there. Again, the ques­tion in my mind is, is it, does the CEO lose their job over the kind of dis­clo­sure Emelia resources had? Were

Cameron: not.

TK: none. So, and does he learn from the mis­take?

Cameron: Prob­a­bly not. So the red flag just stays

TK: Okay.

Cameron: I mean, yeah. Again, like, and we might miss a cou­ple that do well.

TK: Yeah. Okay. That’s, I think that’s the key, isn’t it? We give up any upside, which might fluke out­ta this, but just being able to invest in qual­i­ty com­pa­nies. I

Cameron: like we, we, QAV [00:56:00] is sup­posed to be a ratio­nal invest­ing sys­tem, right? It’s not ratio­nal to invest in com­pa­nies where we have red flags over the qual­i­ty

TK: Good point.

Cameron: of, of, of, of man­age­ment. That just does­n’t seem like, like if you as a pri­vate investor, as a, um, you know, angel investor, you, you saw some­body, if you had a start­up that want­ed you to drop a mil­lion bucks in and they could­n’t do their finan­cials on time and they could­n’t report, and the CEO was doing deals behind your back and not telling you about

TK: Hmm,

Cameron: sell­ing stuff, would­n’t tol­er­ate that.

You

TK: no

Cameron: mon­ey into the busi­ness, would you? You’d

TK: good point.

Cameron: oh, this is, I’m not, you know, you would, you, you, you, you’d. Your shack­les would go up, your spidey sense would go off, and you’re like, yeah, I’m not sure I wan­na be part of this oper­a­tion. It’s the same thing, just writ large. Right?

You just don’t wan­na

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: with peo­ple that are or dodgy, I

TK: Or, or incom­pe­tent.

Cameron: or incom­pe­tent. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s right. Yeah.

TK: Yeah. [00:57:00] All right. I’m, I’m con­vinced. So got, we got var­i­ous gov­er­nance issues for red flags and we don’t take the red flag off until the key per­son is replaced.

Cameron: All right. I’m gonna make a note before I for­get, ’cause I’m gonna have to write this into the Bible.

TK: That’s inter­est­ing dis­cus­sion. I’ve been think­ing about it a lot for the last cou­ple of weeks since report­ing sea­son, so it’s good to have this with you and be able to mud out some rules.

Cameron: Yeah. Well I think it’s like, and it’s inter­est­ing to me how, um, uh, what’s going on here. It’s inter­est­ing to me, like just the, the evo­lu­tion of. Um, QAV, like learn­ing, see­ing these things crop up,

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: Okay. This is some­thing that we need to prob­a­bly, um, man­age in

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: sys­tem.

TK: And it’s sad because real­ly a SX should be man­ag­ing this, not us. They should be hit­ting these com­pa­nies hard and [00:58:00] say­ing, you know, what’s going on? And, and also too, I mean, I think Heal­er will be inter­est­ing because, um, I, I checked before and I haven’t seen any announce­ments about the, the CEO’s share sale, but it’s inter­est­ing that, that if that CEO retains their job after that, if I was the chair of heal­er, I’d be ask­ing some pret­ty seri­ous ques­tions of A CEO, who did that?

Cameron: mm mm All right. Um, I had one more thing. Um, speak­ing of TPG, which I did, um. Add to the pos­si­ble. Light port­fo­lio a week or so ago, and then it imme­di­ate­ly went below. Its three PTLI gave it a few days, grace, it seemed to be recov­er­ing. Then it turned around and went back­wards, uh, today. So I did sug­gest that peo­ple let it go. hold on. It’s too far below it’s three point trend line. But, um, [00:59:00]I did see a note, I think it was last week. TPG wel­comes ACCC clear­ance of sale to Vocus, TPG Tele­com, the coun­try’s third largest Tel­co says the num­ber of mobile cus­tomers is ris­ing quick­ly with a new net­work shar­ing agree­ment with Optus help­ing expand its pres­ence into region­al areas. And, uh, it’s sell­ing, um, a big chunk of some­thing to Vocus 5.25 bil­lion deal to sell Most of its fiber net­works to the Vocus group was struck in Octo­ber, then it just got reg­u­la­to­ry approval last week. I think Vocus has been on our buy list from

TK: Mm.

Cameron: time

TK: It was,

Cameron: it?

TK: yeah.

Cameron: Hmm. I find it inter­est­ing them talk­ing about mobile cus­tomers ris­ing quick­ly. Who, like, where does that come from? Like is it just [01:00:00] teenagers that are get­ting mobile phones? I mean, who does­n’t have a mobile phone?

TK: Yeah, good point. It’s um, and who has a land­line these days? Be the oth­er ques­tion.

Cameron: Yeah, exact­ly. It’s fun­ny, I was talk­ing to Chris­sy about this ear­li­er, like, um, talk­ing about peo­ple that are still ai. Skep­tics. And, uh, I was say­ing, I, I, you know, I still remem­ber mobile phone skep­tics. remem­ber hav­ing my mo my first mobile phone in the ear­ly nineties, and peo­ple me a wanker and say­ing that they would, uh, then they, they would nev­er own a mobile phone. I don’t want peo­ple to be able to call me after hours. Whoa, whoa. I go, you know, it’s got an off but­ton, right?

TK: Hm,

Cameron: You turn it off, you don’t have to answer it. Oh, the expec­ta­tion is that you’ll always be like, real­ly, I don’t answer my phone if I don’t wan­na take a call. But yeah, I remem­ber

TK: hm.

Cameron: being skep­ti­cal about the inter­net and they were nev­er gonna get an email address, and they were nev­er gonna have a web­site and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. [01:01:00] But yeah, I, it just sur­prised me that the mobile cus­tomers are ris­ing quick­ly. I was like, oh, where are they com­ing from

TK: That’s a good point.

Cameron: teenagers, kids?

TK: Does Fox have a mobile phone?

Cameron: No God

TK: Hmm.

Cameron: But the boys, the twins got one when they start­ed high school I think. ’cause they were catch­ing a train to high school and if they had an emer­gency, you know, I think they had one between ’em ’cause they were always togeth­er.

But it was, um, and it was a hand me down, you know, sec­ond­hand one from me or their moth­er or some­thing, Chris­sy. But, um, I think most kids sort of tween, uh, lev­el and up have a mobile phone for the same rea­son these days. If they’re, you know, Chris­sy and Fox went to a Poke­mon tour­na­ment, uh, on Sat­ur­day. Fox played in the region­al Poke­mon tour­na­ment.

TK: Wow. Okay.

Cameron: And, uh, they called a train in the, in the South bank. And then they called me at like eight o’clock and said, uh, [01:02:00] trains stalled, got towed back to the sta­tion. Can you come and pick us up from blah, blah, blah sta­tion? ’cause their car was parked over here. So yeah, there were, when catch pub­lic trans­port, there were

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: and stuff like that.

You need to get in touch with some­body. I remem­ber Alex was­n’t big. I remem­ber Alex not real­ly hav­ing phones or stuff like that when she was a teenag­er.

TK: Yeah. I can’t remem­ber. I was rack­ing my brains then. Try­ing to think when we gave her one. Um, she would’ve got one when she was a teenag­er, but she was real­ly, was­n’t big on social media. Um. Oh yeah. Um, and had a, had a, I think she was put off a lot by what the boys did in her class.

Cameron: Mm-hmm.

TK: Um, I did­n’t real­ly go into it with her, but she just, you know, thought they were idiots and were doing stu­pid things, so she just stayed away.

I,

Cameron: Too smart, Alex, too smart to get into. Sucked into all that. Uh, alright, well that’s my TPG sto­ry. Um,

TK: cus was the one, sor­ry. Vocus was [01:03:00] on our buy list and it was acquired. So it’s one of those com­pa­nies that were tak­en over when it was on the buy list. Mm-hmm.

Cameron: It’s was and has gone uh, I don’t know why, but it a buy and then its price has been going rapid­ly back­wards for the last week. So it’s, if it’s still on the buy list today, it’s prob­a­bly a Josephine

TK: Full pork time.

Cameron: actu­al­ly it’s a three PTL sell. It’s not a Josephine, it’s a sell. So it’s not on the buy list any­more. Just to clar­i­fy that, that’s why I sold it. Yes. Pulled Pork San­tos.

TK: San­tos

Cameron: before, Tony.

TK: I have, but it’s about two or three years ago I looked it up.

Cameron: Weren’t there some prob­lems with San­tos back then?

TK: Uh,

Cameron: I seem to remem­ber it had a taint. was a San­tos taint.

TK: there was, and I’m gonna say per­haps it was with the merg­er with Oil Search, one of the, anoth­er a SX com­pa­ny

Cameron: That

TK: was a big, uh, big oil com­pa­ny based in [01:04:00] p and g, which I think has worked out any­way. Um, it’s back on the bio list as is nat­ur­al gas as a com­mod­i­ty. Um, in now a three point trend line buy, but oil isn’t.

Uh, but San­tos, even though it’s an oil and gas com­pa­ny, uh, is prob­a­bly 80 or 90% gas and 10 to 20% oil. So it’s main­ly LNG, which dri­ves the per­for­mance of San­tos. It’s the sec­ond biggest oil and gas provider on the A SX. Wood­side being the biggest, um, what else can I say about it? They, they’re an inter­na­tion­al com­pa­ny based in South Aus­tralia.

Uh, they have facil­i­ties, um. In West­ern Aus­tralia, pap New Guinea, Tim­or-Leste, and Alas­ka. Uh, they’ve got gas fields in the Coop­er Basin in South Aus­tralia. Um, big, uh, liqui­fied [01:05:00] nat­ur­al gas facil­i­ty in Glad­stone, where, where they send the l and g over­seas to South­east Asia. A lot goes to Japan. And uh, they’re also pro­ceed­ing with a pro­posed domes­tic gas project in Narrabri, new South Wales.

Um, so inter­na­tion­al com­pa­ny, quite large. Inter­est­ing his­to­ry. With, uh, with the com­pa­ny. So Aus­tralian based back in 19 49, 2 school friends from Ade­laide, Bob Bris­tow and John Bon­ham thought, uh, that oil could be found in South Aus­tralia. And they con­firmed that in, um, uh, the fol­low­ing years and in 1954, San­tos was, San­tos was incor­po­rat­ed.

And I did­n’t notice this until I saw this, um, arti­cle. Uh, San­tos is an acronym of South Aus­tralia, North­ern Ter­ri­to­ry Oil Search. Did not know that. And, uh. One of the peo­ple respon­si­ble for nam­ing [01:06:00] San­tos that way was Sir Dou­glas Mor­son, who joined the inau­gur­al San­tos board, and he was part of the, the deci­sion to add North­ern Ter­ri­to­ry to the San­tos name.

So oth­er­wise it would’ve been San­tos. Uh, they list­ed in Octo­ber, 1954 on the South Aus­tralian Fair Mar­ket back when the states had their own boards, as they were called, and because they list­ed in 54, it means they turned 70 last year as a list­ed com­pa­ny. In 63, they saw their first sig­nif­i­cant gas dis­cov­ery in the Coop­er Basin in South Aus­tralia.

And in 66, they also dis­cov­ered gas in the Mum­ba gas field, which was also, which was in the Coop­er Basin, but a large scale dis­cov­ery. Uh, it gave them the, um, I guess the, uh. Con­fi­dence to put a pipeline in from the Coop­er Basin to Ade­laide. And in 1969, nat­ur­al gas was piped from Mum­ba and arrived in the Ade­laide sub­urb of Blair Athol in [01:07:00] South Aus­tralia.

So the first pipeline to a city of nat­ur­al gas occurred, uh, in 1970 gas and crude oil was dis­cov­ered in what was called Tera Wara one. Uh, until then, the opin­ion was that the Coop­er Basin would be only a gas resource. How­ev­er, it was the first time that oil had flowed to the sur­face from a well in South Aus­tralia.

In 1982, uh, San­tos put a pipeline from Mum­ba to Stony Point near Whyal­la in South Aus­tralia. And that allowed San­tos to start export­ing oil and gas, um, both over­seas and the round two Gee­long for refin­ing. And that port was called Port Hon. In order of the founder of San­tos, John Bon tho in 84, they sent their first load of, uh.

Uh, LPG via the ves­sel called Genai Maro to Japan In 2002, they dis­cov­ered, uh, gas and fields and off­shore WA in the North­west shelf. [01:08:00] Um, in 2006, they, uh. Dis­cov­ered fields in Tim­or, less state, also in off­shore Vic­to­ria, and off­shore in East Java. And all those fields, sor­ry, start­ed pro­duc­tion in 2006. Um, they were dis­cov­ered ear­li­er in 2008, San­tos signed a gas agree­ment with the PNG gov­ern­ment.

Uh, in 2015, the Glad­stone. LNG plant went online and that, uh, saw the first ship­ment of LNG leav­ing Cur­tis Island near Glad­stone and deliv­ered to South Korea. And that, uh, was part­ly sup­plied with San­tos Coop­er Basin Gas. So the Glad­stone port real­ly opened up the export chan­nel for LNG in Aus­tralia, uh, par­tic­u­lar­ly for the Coop­er Basin 2021.

San­tos com­plet­ed the merg­er with oil search, com­bin­ing two indus­try lead­ers and enhanc­ing the com­pa­ny’s growth port­fo­lio and PNG oper­at­ing busi­ness. Also, through the merg­er, San­tos gained its first North Amer­i­can project, uh, one called Pick­er in Alas­ka, where [01:09:00] it now has three projects. Um. In drilling and explor­ing for gas and oil in Alas­ka in 2024, uh, San­tos announces the suc­cess­ful start­up of the mum­ba, uh, CCS, which is the, um, car­bon stor­age and cap­ture, car­bon cap­ture and stor­age project.

And they, they, uh, com­mis­sioned the, uh, first CCS, uh, project to, uh, use C oh to put CO2 deplet­ed gas back into the Coop­er Basin. So I guess it’s a watch this space, space to see how that rolls out. So that’s the his­to­ry of San­tos. Lat­est results, um, was­n’t a great year for San­tos. All met­rics were down com­pared to the pri­or year.

Pro­duc­tion vol­ume was down 5%, rev­enue was down 9%. Prices for both gas and oil were down 3%. Earn­ings per share, down 11%. How­ev­er, ana­lysts are fore­cast­ing growth of 12%, uh, for this [01:10:00]year, and that’s guid­ed by San­tos Man­age­ment. But I, I do put NAS risk beside that because it’s high­ly depen­dent on oper­a­tional exe­cu­tion across a large, com­plex busi­ness, and also the move­ment in com­mod­i­ty prices, which is dif­fi­cult to fore­cast as well.

But look­ing at the QAV num­bers, it’s not a, it’s a def­i­nite­ly a val­ue. Buy a DT for this com­pa­ny is $55 mil­lion. So it’s, um, uh, avail­able to buy for any­one who’s lis­ten­ing. Stock price is 6 75. Um, the buy price is only 6 73, so it’s just nudged above. Its buy recent­ly and it’s also close to sell price of 6 58.

So. Uh, some peo­ple might wan­na wait for a bit for the trend to resolve, uh, a lit­tle bit more before they buy, but, um, it’s hov­er­ing above its s byline and, uh, a lit­tle bit high­er above its cell line. Uh, it’s below con­sen­sus tar­get by 15%, but above IV one, which is $2 85 and intrin­sic val­ue two, which is $2 89.[01:11:00]

Net equi­ty per share is inter­est­ing. It’s uh, $7 69. So we can buy this com­pa­ny for less than book val­ue, uh, which makes it a val­ue buy. Um, yield is 5.3%, which is strong, but we don’t, uh, score it for that ’cause it’s not quite over our thresh­old. Stock doc­tor rates, uh, San­tos as a star growth stock. Um, and also of course that means it’s, uh, finan­cial health is strong and it also has a steady finan­cial health trend.

Stock edia aren’t as kind. San­tos ranks as 69 for qual­i­ty out of a hun­dred and only a four out of nine on the F score. Um, it does rank high­er 80 for val­ue, uh, and only 85 over­all. So not quite up there on stock. Edia, uh, I, I’ll call out return on equi­ty for the com­pa­ny as only being 7.6%. I know some lis­ten­ers focus on that.

It’s not part of our check­list, but, um, that is a fair­ly low score for ROE. [01:12:00] Uh, PE is 12 times, um, but it’s not the high­est or the low­est in the last three years, so it gets a score of zero for us. On that one. Prop calf is 4.78 times. So that’s where we’re find­ing it being sup­port­ed on our check­list. Uh, we’re buy­ing it for less than five times oper­at­ing cash flow.

Uh, even though fore­cast EPS growth is 12%, um, the PE is, uh, rea­son­ably high. So, uh, fore­cast growth over PE is only 0.98, so we can’t score it for the PE growth ratio does­n’t have an own­er founder any­more. It’s 70 years old as a com­pa­ny. Um, it, it is a new three point trend line upturn, so we score it for that.

Equi­ty is also con­sis­tent­ly increas­ing over the last, uh, five years, so we score it for that. So all in all, 12 out­ta 17 for qual­i­ty or 71%. Uh, which is prob­a­bly fair­ly sim­i­lar to what Stock Edia had, but a QAV score of 0.15 boost­ed by the prop cap on the [01:13:00] com­pa­ny. Uh, I wan­na high­light some risks with San­tos.

Um, guy called Kevin Gal­lagher’s. Been run­ning it for a long time. Very expe­ri­enced oper­a­tor in the, um, in the gas, uh, field, but he’s been there for 10 years and so, uh, is like­ly to have a suc­ces­sor in the short to medi­um term announced and appoint­ed and that, so suc­ces­sion, um. Plan­ning and suc­ces­sion exe­cu­tion I think is a risk for this com­pa­ny.

Whether the next per­son is is well regard­ed as Kevin remains to be seen. Uh, I think car­bon cap­ture and stor­age I have down as both an oppor­tu­ni­ty and a risk because, um, uh, it’s, it’s the first plant. Um, there aren’t many oper­a­tions around the world to look at for this, but if it does work, then it actu­al­ly, you know, solves a lot of prob­lems for, uh, the fos­sil fuels indus­try.

And there’s an upside for San­tos if it does work. Um, I’m, I’m high­light­ing busi­ness com­plex­i­ty as a risk, and if you go through the annu­al report and see every­thing this com­pa­ny does and the [01:14:00] var­i­ous joint ven­tures it has, and there’s explo­ration and drilling for new resources and devel­op­ment for that, there’s cap­i­tal inten­sive nature of doing that.

There’s keep­ing all the exist­ing stuff pipelines main­tained and, and run­ning, um, in full large divi­sions. And then there’s com­mod­i­ty, um. You know, hedg­ing or com­mod­i­ty risks to take into account. It’s a com­plex beast. So busi­ness com­plex­i­ty, I think you got­ta call out as a risk for this. Um, two oth­er risks.

Car­bon cap­ture, oh, sor­ry. Cli­mate change leg­is­la­tion. I. I think there’s a risk. So if, uh, if, uh, for what­ev­er rea­son there are stronger, um, pres­sures applied to the oil indus­try and the, and the gas indus­try around car­bon, um, emis­sion that could affect, uh, the prof­itabil­i­ty of the com­pa­ny. Uh, so that’s got­ta be a risk.

Um, and that could be pres­sure applied to the banks that lend it mon­ey, for exam­ple, which has been hap­pen­ing. So that’s an issue. Um, and the last [01:15:00] risk I’ll high­light is poten­tial sov­er­eign risk because they are in JVs with the PNG gov­ern­ment and they are in JVs with their explo­ration in Alas­ka. So, um, it would­n’t sur­prise me if, uh, there ever was a change of gov­ern­ment in the US that, uh, and the next gov­ern­ment shuts down drilling for oil and gas in Alas­ka.

It’s always been a con­tentious issue. And it also would­n’t sur­prise me if, um, the PNG gov­ern­ment at some stage turns around and wants to rene­go­ti­ate the deal, um, if it.

Cameron: you said that if there were, if

TK: Yeah, you picked up that one. Yeah.

Cameron: anoth­er, if there is ever anoth­er gov­ern­ment in the US Yeah.

TK: Yeah. Drill, baby drill.

Cameron: you just like slid through on that.

TK: Yeah, drill, baby drill cer­tain­ly helps them at the moment, but that may change.

Cameron: Hmm.

TK: back on the B list.

Cameron: Wow. I’m not even gonna look at what price it was when I sold it last time. ’cause I don’t wan­na know. Uh, okay, [01:16:00] well, let me see. I think that’s every­thing on the list. I did have to sell two US stocks today. Zim

TK: Ooh. Pulled pork from a cou­ple of weeks ago.

Cameron: Yeah. This is before you told me about the, uh, Paul Pork Curse

TK: Yeah. Just put it in the bot­tom draw­er. Just buy it. Put it in the bot­tom draw­er. Wait for a cou­ple of years.

Cameron: Yeah. And r and w uh, was anoth­er one I sold. And, uh, I anoth­er three PTL. And um, as I said, like I could­n’t find any­thing to replace him with, so I’m just gonna hold off well onto after hours, Joe 90. Wow. I, I’ve watched a cou­ple of episodes. for peo­ple who, dun­no, Joe 90, made by Jer­ry and Sylvia Ander­son in the late six­ties.

Peo­ple behind, um, Thun­der­birds, sim­i­lar sort of a thing, super mar­i­onette [01:17:00] pup­pets, um, with, with elec­tron­ics in their mouths to move their lips, insane sets. And the cra it’s the cra­zi­est plots about a 9‑year-old boy Joe, whose father, quote unquote adop­tive father, who’s a mad sci­en­tist, um, uploads all of his mind into this com­put­er that for some rea­son is a big spin­ning globe. then sort of the kid wears a con­trap­tion on his head and the form of glass­es some­times and has all of his father’s knowl­edge. then. Their Amer­i­can friend, uncle Sam, voiced by an Aus­tralian actor, as it turns out, uh, basi­cal­ly turns him into a spy. So there’s this kid run­ning around in the first episode, [01:18:00] a mig from the Sovi­ets and fly­ing it away.

But then it turns out that did­n’t real­ly hap­pen. He’s like, that’s the cool, that’s the sort of, uh, assign­ment he could go on. But then he runs around and just starts killing peo­ple and blow­ing stuff up. He’s this 9‑year-old boy who’s a spy. I watched a doc­u­men­tary about it on YouTube last night, which was fas­ci­nat­ing. did­n’t real­ly work as a show. I mean, Sylvia Ander­son said, it turns out kids don’t wan­na watch shows about kids, which I don’t think is true. One of Fox’s favorite shows. And if you’ve nev­er seen this, I high­ly rec­om­mend it. Any­one with Par­ents of Kids, if you haven’t seen Odd Squad,

TK: no,

Cameron: Squad Squad

TK: I haven’t.

Cameron: C Cana­di­an Show? It’s a few years old now. I think it was like 2015, some­thing like that. It’s basi­cal­ly about a bunch of kids that run a spy agency. And it is, it’s made by the Fred Rogers, uh, foun­da­tion, Rogers. [01:19:00] It’s real­ly well writ­ten. The kids are fan­tas­tic. It’s fun­ny, sil­ly. Um, and they, they, it’s edu­ca­tion­al. So it’s kin­da like Street or Mr.

Rogers. They, they’re teach­ing basic con­cepts of maths and lit­er­a­cy and sci­ence in it, but in the struc­ture of kids doing a spy and like in order to solve some sort of mys­tery, it’s a bit x foy. They have these mys­ter­ies that they have to go and solve. But they’re like a spy orga­ni­za­tion, some secret orga­ni­za­tion that solve, they, they have to go solve things that are odd, things are hap­pen­ing and they’re the odd squad, it’s always they have to solve a math prob­lem or some sort of a

TK: All right.

Cameron: geom­e­try, or it’s not basic sci­ence or what­ev­er. Um, but it’s quite, it’s very, very fun­ny. Fox loves it and we love it. It’s like, what are those kids shows that, uh, are as enter­tain­ing for adults as they are for kids any­way. So, um, [01:20:00] I’m not sure about the premise that, uh, kids don’t like watch­ing shows about kids doing stuff. But, um, any­way, Joe, I like the sets are insane.

Like the, the, the, um, amount of work that must have gone into build­ing the sets and the pup­pets and all of the ancil­lary things. Like this Uncle Sam in the first episode, he’s got a lit­tle pot of cof­fee. He’s pour­ing cof­fee and drink­ing cof­fee and like, some­body had to build all of these things and uh, must have been incred­i­ble.

TK: Oh yeah. A lot. A lot would’ve been reused from Cap­tain Scar­let and Thun­der­birds. I, I remem­ber see­ing, when I watched Joe Knight as a kid, they had some of the pup­pets, the same one going, hang on. That was some­one dif­fer­ent in, in one of the past series. Yeah,

Cameron: put a dif­fer­ent, dif­fer­ent eye­brows on

TK: yeah, exact­ly. Yeah,

Cameron: on. Yeah. Yeah.

TK: yeah,

Cameron: so that was good. That was good fun to watch.

TK: yeah. Good. Well, after.

Diss­ing the stu­dio last week. I watched the first episode. I got it [01:21:00] con­fused with some­thing else that was, um, a sim­i­lar sort of, I think it’s called the fran­chise, sim­i­lar sort of premise about, uh, life in the Hol­ly­wood stu­dios behind the scenes. But, uh, loved it, loved the stu­dio. Have you seen it yet the first episode

Cameron: No, I

TK: called Any of the series?

Oh, that’s good. Good and large­ly good because of the cameo scors­ese’s in it and Steve Chemis in it. Um, yeah, loved it.

Cameron: I, um, yeah, Tay­lor, as I think I told you last week, Tay­lor and Amy real­ly loved it. He, he said he thought I’d love it.

TK: Yeah, no, very good.

Cameron: Tay­lor Tay­lor called me from LA yes­ter­day. He had spent the after­noon with of the new Super­man movie. And, um, James Gunn, who’s run­ning, um, all the DC films now, but, so he was with, um, Rachel Bros­na­han, who plays Lois Lane.

Did you watch The Mar­velous Mrs. Mrs. Maisel? Mrs.

TK: No.[01:22:00]

Cameron: Oh, it’s a great

TK: Is it okay?

Cameron: The

TK: All right.

Cameron: Maisel. Yeah. Yeah. Um, she, her Nicholas Holt from the Great and About a boy, you know, Nicholas Holt in

TK: No.

Cameron: He was Ren­field in

TK: Oh, okay. Yep.

Cameron: He’s, he was in Fury Road. He’s,

TK: Right.

Cameron: every­thing right

TK: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: Um, he plays Lex Luther in the new Super­man. Uh, Nathan Fill­in from Fire­fly was there. Um, NoHo Hank from Bar­ry was there. Do you watch Bar­ry

TK: No.

Cameron: the, the Bill Had­er show? Oh God. Bar­ry was such a great show.

TK: Okay.

Cameron: Tay­lor, Tay­lor was just hang­ing out with all these celebri­ties yes­ter­day. He said it was

TK: Did­n’t get a hunter a job.

Cameron: an apart­ment? No,

TK: Uh,

Cameron: yet. But Hunter’s work­ing on his visa. I told you Tay­lor’s got an apart­ment in LA now,

TK: yeah,

Cameron: went and fur­nished it and all that kind of jazz.

TK: yeah. That’s great.

Cameron: Yeah. Geez. And he he’s been there for a [01:23:00] month. He’s sup­posed to be com­ing back on the 10th, but then he, I said to, I was talk­ing to him, he goes, ah, yeah, I think I’m gonna have to push that out.

Some­thing’s come up. I’ve got a thing. I meet­ing. that’s the thing now, like he’s just book­ing. Things when he’s there. I don’t think he’s ever com­ing back. I think it’ll just be, oh, I got­ta stick around for anoth­er week. I got­ta do this thing. And I got­ta shoot this thing next week with one of my guys.

And you know, I, I, I think I, I’ve lost my

TK: You’ve lost him. Well, you got in a,

Cameron: while.

TK: hope­ful­ly it’s a three bed­room apart­ment in LA so he can go and crash there when you vis­it.

Cameron: But, but there’ll be a lounge. Yeah. We’ll all

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: there. But yeah, we’ve got a place to stay in la which is nice.

TK: Yeah. That’s good. He’s doing well. Tay­lor’s always been very impres­sive.

Cameron: Yeah. And it still shocks me, you

TK: Impres­sive.

Cameron: Oh, I, I, I, I, I, I’m autis­tic. As it turns out, I’m get­ting a t‑shirt that says I’m not an ass­hole, I’m just autis­tic. Um, Chris has been telling me for ages, she thinks I’m autis­tic. And I did one of these, uh, [01:24:00] yeah, online, uh, analy­sis last week, and it came out that I’m mild­ly autis­tic, so that explains a lot.

So then I got my boys to do it, and they came out with far low­er scores than me, and I’m going, I said to Tay­lor, it’s no way. You are less autis­tic than I am. You are the, you are the chess nerd who sits there and plays chess con­stant­ly. That’s got­ta be a sign of

TK: That’s a,

Cameron: autism.

TK: of OCD though. It’s not real­ly autism, is it?

Cameron: Well, I don’t know. I said the, the ques­tion­naire for autism should just be, do you like play­ing chess? Yes. Yeah. You’re autis­tic. You got­ta be a lit­tle bit autis­tic to like chess, I think.

TK: This was­n’t like one of these, uh, take a test and then qual­i­fy for the NDIS. Was it?

Cameron: No, unfor­tu­nate­ly I don’t, I, I’m not get­ting any, I’m not get­ting paid for my autism or my brain dam­age. Um, And I read the IPC Crest file. I told you I fin­ished

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: night. I told you before we start­ed record­ing. Real­ly? Yeah. Good rec­om­men­da­tion. Real­ly enjoy­able, sort of bonkers book, but, uh, I liked it a lot.

Yeah. Got[01:25:00]

TK: Yeah. Good.

Cameron: the style of it.

TK: Very dif­fer­ent from the movie too. Com­plete­ly,

Cameron: Which

TK: dif­fer­ent plot.

Cameron: but I tried to see if that was avail­able in any of the stream­ing net­works in a like Brit box or some­thing. You got­ta have, it’s not avail­able on any of the ones that we have here. I do love a Michael Coe film Low.

TK: And Gor­don Jack­son from the pro­fes­sion­als, he was in it. Yeah.

Cameron: I remem­ber him.

TK: Mm. He was good. But dif­fer­ent, dif­fer­ent plot about, um, a par­tic­u­lar piece of tape that Brain­wash­es peo­ple, Michael Kane’s try­ing to, the Rus­sians are brain­wash­ing peo­ple, and Michael Kane’s has to track it down and

Cameron: that’s the same plot as the book.

TK: Oh, okay.

Cameron: They’re brain­wash­ing peo­ple. That’s what IP CREs stands for. like psy­cho neu­ro­sis, uh, some­thing, some­thing brain­wash­ing, uh, it’s a, it’s an, an acronym [01:26:00] for this brain­wash­ing process that the, uh, guy sold out to the Rus­sians is using to try and brain­wash all of Britain’s lead­ing sci­en­tist and get­ting them to become com­mu­nists or

TK: Okay. Maybe just touch­es to the plot then. Oh, I thought it was very dif­fer­ent. I’ll have to go back and watch it.

Cameron: Yeah, I

TK: Yeah. But good. Yeah. I press files. Great book

Cameron: Yeah. Yeah. And I dis­cov­ered some great new music this week. Some, some friends of mine at kung fu were mak­ing fun of me ’cause I did­n’t know Any Blink 180 2 music you ever

TK: and it

Cameron: 180

TK: I did. Yep.

Cameron: I was, they were mak­ing refer. We got a lit­tle chat group and they were ref­er­enc­ing Blink 180 2. And I was like, yeah, I don’t know what you’re talk­ing about.

And they’re like,

TK: Real­ly,

Cameron: so out­ta touch.

TK: huh?

Cameron: Any­way, so I was, my, I, I did lis­ten to a bit of it and I was like, uh, fairy bread, punk music, like, gimme

TK: Yeah, exact­ly.

Cameron: Mc five. I don’t, I, I like my,

TK: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: I like my punk, like, I like my women dirty and nasty. And so one of the guys [01:27:00]said, what about trans­plants? appar­ent­ly the drum­mer from Blink 180 2 had a band after they broke up called Trans­plants, which is far more my style.

So I’ve been

TK: Oh, okay.

Cameron: of trans­plants,

TK: Oh, I haven’t heard them.

Cameron: hard, sort of punk with a lit­tle bit of hip hop in it, sort of, of hip hop, punk. Real­ly thrashy noisy, um, angry polit­i­cal, sort of cross between, maybe rage against a machine and, I don’t know, clash or some­thing. It

TK: I was gonna say, it sounds like, it sounds like, sounds like Tom more.

Cameron: Yeah, it’s, it’s a bit like that. I mean, it’s not as mely as, but the same sort of vein as rage against the machine, sort of, they’re more met­al punk than, you know, uh, me sort of met­al hip hop rather than punk hip hop. But same sort of atti­tude, you know, and lit­tle bit of, lit­tle bit of, [01:28:00] um, raster sort of reg­gae in there as well. Any­way, it was good. And a band called The Dis­tillers, which I got out of that too, which was a female led. Girl punk. Well, I think there were guys in it, but the lead singer’s a girl who’s from Mel­bourne, appar­ent­ly they’re an Amer­i­can punk band. I think they’re defunct now too. But, uh, girl who came out­ta Mel­bourne, Brody Dali, I think was her stage name. So I’m impressed by between Amal and the Snif­fers

TK: Yeah,

Cameron: Dis­tillers like girl punk com­ing out of Aus­tralia. It’s uh, great. Yeah. Sur­pris­ing. Can’t

TK: oh, that’s great.

Cameron: and the Snif­fers are doing in the US right now. They’re killing it over

TK: are they real­ly?

Cameron: Yeah. Huge­ly pop­u­lar. And I, I dun­no how it trans­lates. Like, they’re like just the most bogan Aus­tralian act going and the Amer­i­cans love them, appar­ent­ly.

They

TK: Oh, that’s great.

Cameron: So [01:29:00] yeah. Good

TK: Yeah. Oh, that’s good. Have you um, checked out Tom Muril­lo’s album called Black Spar­cus Heart Attack Machine?

Cameron: No.

TK: Real­ly good.

Cameron: or one of

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: super­group spin­offs,

TK: Oh, I’m not sure. I think it was a solo.

Cameron: right?

TK: Yeah. Great

Cameron: What?

TK: heart attack machine. Appar­ent­ly heart attack, appar­ent­ly that’s what, uh, Woody Guthrie had writ­ten on his, um, gui­tar.

He called his gui­tar Black, black Spar­ta­cus, ’cause it was black and it was the heart attack machine. They used to have this, this machine kills fas­cists on the, on the front of it.

Cameron: What’s that got­ta do with Spar­ta­cus?

TK: It was called Black Spar­ta­cus. He used to call his gui­tar Black Spar­ta­cus.

Cameron: that’s great.

TK: Hmm.

Cameron: Um, no, I check that out. I love to More, yeah. To is high­ly orig­i­nal gui­tarist.

TK: Mm

Cameron: I, I sort of mourn the breakup of rage against a machine. Like I’ve often said, like, [01:30:00]where is the angry polit­i­cal rock and roll these days? You know, I, I thought that they were great. And I, I read a thing not that long ago, um, with, um, who’s the, who’s the lead singer of Rage Against the Machine.

Um, uh, his name escapes me, but he was talk­ing about how he thought they would be able to change things with their

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: then they did­n’t, and so he kind of depressed and gave up singing Angry Rock and Roll, I

TK: pret­ty true, isn’t it? Yeah.

Cameron: Yeah. Well, that’s the show.

TK: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: run­ning this week? Tk,

TK: Uh, yeah. Baf­fle runs on Thurs­day night, fol­low­ing from his sec­ond place last Thurs­day night.

Cameron: Which is your birth­day, right? Thurs­day.

TK: Fri­day I think. Yeah, Fri­day.

Cameron: Oh yes. Today’s Tues­day. Yeah.

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: Well,

TK: Inter­est­ing. Inter­est­ing thing about, um, about hors­es [01:31:00] like baf­fle. I’m appre­ci­at­ing it again because I, it’s been a while since I’ve had one that does this, but, um. A 3‑year-old that can go out over a dis­tance.

I think this race is 20, 2500 meters. There’s just not many of them around. So like the, the race on Thurs­day and the race the week before paid down to 10th place and there were five hors­es in the field. So it’s like line up guar­an­teed pay­out. Does­n’t mat­ter how, how good or bad you run, it’s just a thing with this,

Cameron: two words of what you just said, but I gath­er that’s a good thing

TK: it is, if you are only a 3‑year-old, that can get out over dis­tance. And I tend to like, it’s, I guess I’m a bit of a val­ue investor when it comes to buy­ing hors­es too. But most of the breed­ing indus­try in Aus­tralia is cen­tered around try­ing to find pre­co­cious two year olds who can sprint so they can win the gold­en slip­per or the mag­ic mil­lions or what­ev­er.

Um, and you pay a lot of mon­ey for those kinds of hors­es. And of course, you know, 90% of them don’t. Do any good, but you’ve paid a lot for them. But if you buy a horse, which is prob­a­bly not [01:32:00]gonna race until it’s a 3‑year-old, or it’s a dis­tance horse, you get them cheap­ly and you got­ta, sure, you got­ta pay their expens­es for anoth­er year until they start earn­ing.

But then you get the field to your­self. It’s just great. So, um, yeah, baf­fle one of these hors­es, which is ter­rif­ic. Uh, Chacha changes runs on Sun­day. Um, she had a win last Sat­ur­day at Gee­long, which was great. Um, she’s rac­ing in sale, I think. Uh, and Per­fect will prob­a­bly run at Flem­ing­ton on Sat­ur­day as well, so it could have three rac­ing this week.

Cameron: Pre­co­cious two year olds that can sprint.

TK: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: What’s a pre­co­cious 2‑year-old? This is

TK: Uh, pre­co­cious means that they’re, they’re an ear­ly run­ner, so a lot of hors­es don’t run until they’re late two year olds or three year olds. Um, ’cause I mean, you, you know, ’cause they’re young, they’re babies, right. So.

Cameron: I.

TK: Well, horse horse’s lifes­pan is usu­al­ly about 20 odd years, [01:33:00] 25 maybe. So, you know, they’re, as a 2‑year-old, they’re, it’s like being a good run­ner when you’re 10 or eight.

As a, as a, an adult, most peo­ple aren’t berat­ed until they’re teenagers at least. Um, so yeah, so a pre­co­cious 2‑year-old is a 2‑year-old that can race ear­ly, which is not that easy to do, um, and do well. Uh, and then, um, yeah, sprint­ers, for some rea­son, Aus­trali­a’s rac­ing prize mon­ey has evolved more towards sprint races than, um, dis­tance races used to be the oth­er way around.

Mel­bourne Cup and Vic­to­ria Dar­by would, and the Cox plate maybe would be the biggest prize mon­ey races. But now things like the Ever­est and the Mag­ic mil­lions are, uh, are up there as well. And they’re, they’re sprint races.

Cameron: And so a 2‑year-old that can race good. Because you make mon­ey out of them faster.

TK: Yeah. ’cause they, well, yes, that’s right. So a lot of peo­ple like, um, two [01:34:00] year olds that come race straight away ’cause they’re, they’re earn­ing from, uh, an ear­ly age. So you’re not pay­ing out to the train­ers and get­ting noth­ing back for it. Um, but I think that’s trig­ger the away and the price you pay. But peo­ple over­pay for those hors­es.

Yeah.

Cameron: Yeah. Uh, one oth­er thing I want­ed to men­tion that I’ve been watch­ing, I’m only halfway through it again, but is Unfor­giv­en the East­wood

TK: Hack­man, c East­wood. Yeah.

Cameron: Yeah. Which I saw when it came out and I

TK: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: enjoyed it at the time and I haven’t seen it since. I start­ed it, um, this week hold­ing up real­ly well.

TK: Is it? Oh,

Cameron: Yeah. And uh, Mor­gan Free­man in it too.

TK: right.

Cameron: Um, yeah, him and Clint and Hack­man, um, and, um, Richard, um. Har­ris.

TK: Right?

Cameron: Har­ris is Eng­lish Bob, I think he’s called, uh, [01:35:00] some British sort of trou­ble­mak­er, um, fast gun, um, who has a run in with Hack­man, but yeah, but Hack­man man. Damn. So like, just so good, so

TK: Hmm.

Cameron: in his per­for­mances. did that thing where he’d sort of get a glint in his eye and a smile and then say some­thing sort of cold-blood­ed with a smile on his face. He’s one of those guys that could just look ter­ri­fy­ing, but with a smile on his face,

TK: A fake smile.

Cameron: knew.

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: But it kind of comes across as warm. then, know, he’s about to punch you in the jaw and pum­ble you to pum­ble you into the ground. But he’s, he’s, he’s enjoy­ing it. He’s enjoy­ing the, um, buildup of the ten­sion when he takes you down or he is, like, he’s enjoy­ing, uh, get­ting your gan­der up, hop­ing you’re gonna pull a gun on him, or you’re gonna take a swing at him, or some­thing like that. [01:36:00] just great, great, uh, great per­for­mance.

TK: He was a good lho. Prob­a­bly the best. I think

Cameron: I don’t think so. No,

TK: was. He was good.

Cameron: I think it was a low point of his

TK: No, I think he was great.

Cameron: I think he did good. He did a lot with what he had, but those films were, I mean, at the time they were okay, I guess. But in they, they haven’t aged well, they’re kind of campy as all Hell

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: yeah.

Okay.

TK: But he was good. Him and uh, who was the guy? Otis, his side­kick, Ned Beat­ie.

Cameron: Deliv­er­ance, um, what was his name?

TK: they beat him.

Cameron: Ned Beat­ie. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He was great.

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: Again, like sort of campy as hell in those films, but he was always, he was one of those guys that always enter­tain­ing to watch in the sev­en­ties and the eight­ies. Ned Beat­ie. Yeah.

TK: They were great. Yep. Uh, SAS Rogue Heroes, have you seen that yet on SBS On Demand?

Cameron: No.[01:37:00]

TK: Yeah. We’re enjoy­ing sea­son two at the moment.

Cameron: Is that a fic­tion­al thing?

TK: Well, it’s based on a true sto­ry, so they make, they point out that it’s a, it’s Trish, but they take a few, a fair few lib­er­ties like play­ing ac DC and the sound­track behind them and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. It’s, it’s almost like a guy, Richie does a s his­to­ry.

Cameron: I’ve been try­ing to talk Chris­sy in a start­ing slow hors­es with me. And Have you, did you see Gary Old­man on, um, Stephen Col­bert in the last week or so?

TK: No.

Cameron: He had him on, actu­al­ly, he, I think Col­bert went to, Gary Alman, went to the set or some­thing to inter­view him, uh, about slow hors­es. And, and I gath­er his char­ac­ter in that farts a

TK: Hmm mm-hmm.

Cameron: show.

TK: Yeah.

Cameron: Col­bert was like, have you ever won­dered if any of the oth­er char­ac­ters you’ve played in films, the per­for­mance could be improved by mak­ing them far loud­ly? Whoa. Shit. Thank you. Sor­ry. And so he had spliced [01:38:00] togeth­er all of these clips from Gary Old­man films play­ing Churchill and, um, in Har­ry Pot­ter film and dif­fer­ent things. But they’d picked these moments when there’s a black, the char­ac­ter says some­thing and then there’s a break. And then he’ll just look at anoth­er char­ac­ter. Then you just hear this squeaky fart come out or some­thing. And Old­man was just laugh­ing so hard. He was, had tears pour­ing from his eyes while he was watch­ing this thing.

It was, it was beau­ti­ful to see. But yeah, I wan­na get into that,

TK: Oh, slow hors­es is bril­liant.

Cameron: Ler­ay and, and um, Len Day­ton.

TK: Ton. Yeah,

Cameron: into that sort of thing. ’cause you said it was sim­i­lar

TK: it is. Yep.

Cameron: approach,

TK: Def­i­nite­ly. Yeah. ’cause like, the whole thing is, these are the rejects from MI five. They’re in a dif­fer­ent build­ing called Slough House, which is how they get called slow hors­es and, um, Old­man’s, um, old school and on the out­er with the cur­rent peo­ple who run MI five, even though he is, [01:39:00]he’s a drunk and yeah, burps and farts and all the rest.

It’s all an act real­ly. He’s still sharp as a attack. Um, but he uses it to his advan­tage and, uh, and then

Cameron: a Colum­bo.

TK: yeah. Right. Yeah. So, and then, uh, there’s a few oth­er rejects who join him and, you know, it’s, it’s actu­al­ly a real­ly good premise.

Cameron: Hmm.

TK: Yeah, but he get loves, loves get­ting into, you know, rolls Royces to, ’cause he’s being under pres­sure from some­one who’s rich and famous or a lord or some­thing.

And then he farts in the car before he gets out.

Uh, yeah. No, that’s good.

Cameron: of Gary Alban.

TK: Yeah. Great actor.

Cameron: Oh yeah. What a great career. Yeah.

TK: Sid and Nan­cy. That’s prob­a­bly the first time I saw him.

Cameron: Rosen Kranz and Gilden Stern

TK: Oh, okay. Yep.

Cameron: Did you ever see that? Him

TK: I did Tom’s Stop­pard’s first play.

Cameron: Yeah. [01:40:00] With uh, Tim Roth. Him and

TK: Oh, right, yeah. Still. Yeah.

Cameron: before they were famous, like before I. They worked with, um, Taran­ti­no or he was in True Romance or what­ev­er,

TK: Hmm.

Cameron: yeah, before Sid and Nan­cy, I think around about the same time as Sid and Nan­cy any­way.

Yeah.

TK: Yeah, great career and the pro­fes­sion­al.

Cameron: Oh

TK: said one.

Cameron: Yeah. And, um, the fifth ele­ment,

TK: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: he had that peri­od in the nineties where he was just the ulti­mate, crazy bad guy

TK: Yeah. Yeah.

Cameron: he was dat­ing to dat­ing or mar­ried to, um, Thur­man and was a mas­sive alco­holic. And yeah, he was, had a, his, his men­tal health was not good I think for quite a long time. But he pulled out of it, I think, luck­i­ly. Alright.

TK: Okay. Thank you. Good to [01:41:00] chat?

Cameron: birth­day.

TK: Yes. Thank you.

Cameron: let me know when you receive your gift, if you’ll know

TK: I will. Thank you.

Cameron: I’ll

TK: Very thought­ful.

Cameron: week.

TK: Oh, it needs an expla­na­tion. Does it? You pro­vide the instruc­tions next week. Don’t go.

Cameron: yeah, yeah. All right.

TK: All right. Thank you. Bye.

Cameron: Have a good week everyone.[01:42:00]