From Value to Growth: NWH — QAV AU #929

AU 929

[00:00:00]

Cameron: Wel­come back to QAV Aus­tralia, episode 929. Tony, 21st of July 2026. How you doing, TK?

Tony Kynas­ton: Very well. Thank you. Very well

Cameron: Well, the mar­ket, uh, let’s have a look at how the mar­ket’s doing today.

Tony Kynas­ton: so-so

Cameron: yeah, so-so. Not bad. It’s up a lit­tle bit. Oh. Has­n’t quite cracked 9,000 again. Uh, it’s been, it’s down over the last week. Was up at n- just over 9,906.2 a week ago. It’s about 8974 today. What’s, why is the mar­ket depressed today, Tony?

What’s going on?

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, I think it’s the Mid­dle East is, is the main rea­son. Um, but the US mar­ket was down again too, part­ly because of the Mid­dle East and part­ly because of the launch of the, was it the Moon­shot AI in Chi­na? Kimi,

Cameron: Kimi K3

Tony Kynas­ton: tak­en the foam out of some of the, uh, mak­ers around the [00:01:00] world

Cameron: Hap­pens, fun­ny how it hap­pens, like when DeepSeek first came out, they took a hit, and then every­one got over it and they went back up again. And then Kimi comes out and they take a hit, and then, uh, well, it’s, it’s back again, and you know. But yeah, I’ve.

Tony Kynas­ton: Cam.

Cameron: Yeah. But look, I’ve, I’ve been say­ing, uh, for, for years, the Chi­nese are gonna be major play­ers in this space.

I mean, I don’t know if you saw Pres­i­dent Xi’s speech a cou­ple of days ago about Chi­na and AI.

Tony Kynas­ton: No, I missed it. Sor­ry.

Cameron: too busy watch­ing the soc­cer. Um, he, he gave a speech where he basi­cal­ly said, “Look, um, this is too impor­tant for us to fight over. We need to come togeth­er as a globe, AI, and Chi­na’s hap­py to play a lead­ing role in that.

But we need to come togeth­er as a, as a civ­i­liza­tion and work on this togeth­er, ’cause this changes every­thing.” And, [00:02:00] um, no. No,

Tony Kynas­ton: I, I could say that too and it’d have the same effect.

Cameron: but w- you know, whether or not, uh, the, the rest of the world is will­ing to play, Chi­na are gonna be. Un- unless some­thing goes hor­ri­bly wrong. But, um, Chi­na’s been catch­ing up in this, and they’ve made it a, a mis­sion as a coun­try. The amount of mon­ey that they’re sink­ing into AI from the state and ro- and humanoids.

Tony Kynas­ton: Right

Cameron: You know, tens of bil­lions of dol­lars of gov­ern­ment mon­ey going into push­ing this all for­wards and, uh, I think that’s just the begin­ning of it. They’re absolute­ly deter­mined to be, uh, the major play­ers in this space, and they’ve got deep pock­ets and long hori­zons to do it in. So, uh, yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: And of

Cameron: We will-

Tony Kynas­ton: anoth­er, anoth­er spate of arti­cles in the, the finan­cial press this week about how AI, uh, how Chi­na’s lat­est num­bers, GDP num­bers did­n’t look [00:03:00] great. And you read down to the third para­graph and it was like 5%. And I’m

Cameron: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: wow,

Cameron: Yeah. Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: 5% GDP growth in Aus­tralia.” Yeah.

Cameron: It’s all over for Chi­na

Tony Kynas­ton: there’s, yeah, there’s some issues there. I mean, it’s

Cameron: Yeah

Tony Kynas­ton: it’s, uh, the growth is com­ing from exports rather than, you know, domes­tic and. fine, they’ll, you can work through those. I’ll work through

Cameron: Yeah. Domes­tic exports are going bonkers for them

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: Uh, well, let me, uh, let me have a look at the port­fo­lio report. I, I just go to our blog. I don’t even need to open up Navexa any­more ’cause I go to our web­site ’cause I’ve got my cool stuff on the web­site now.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah

it’s look­ing very good, thank you

Cameron: oh, well, thank you.

Tony Kynas­ton: The week­ly email, the port­fo­lio report, very glossy.

Cameron: The mod­el port- the mod­el port­fo­lio in Aus­tralia since incep­tion, 15% ver­sus the SPDR 200, [00:04:00] 7.86.

Uh, last one year, we’ve come down a lot. Wow, look at that. Um, last one year we’re up s- only 17% for the last 12 months. We were up, uh, 25%, uh, a month ago, down to 17, which, you know, does­n’t look that good com­pared to the SPDR 200’s 4.4%. Um, so we’re only doing quadru­ple mar­ket as opposed to quin­tu­ple mar­ket.

Uh, I’m embar­rassed

Tony Kynas­ton: arti­cles in the, press about the par­lous state of our returns

Cameron: Oh, I’m hap­py to announce too that, uh, Alan Kohler’s com­ing back on our show in a cou­ple of weeks, so that’s gonna be fun. We haven’t spo­ken to him in, since the begin­ning of the show. It’s been, like, six years since he was on.

Tony Kynas­ton: He helped us launch, which was ter­rif­ic of him

Cameron: he did. He gave us some very ear­ly press, which was very gen­er­ous.

Tony Kynas­ton: Hmm.

Cameron: Um, QAV Light port­fo­lios, uh, as a group all [00:05:00] time now 17.8 ver­sus the SPDR 9.99, so not quite dou­ble mar­ket, but, uh, pret­ty close in the last 12 months, QAV Light, 24% ver­sus 4.48.

So it is, is that f- that’s, what is that? Yeah, quin­tu­ple? Yeah, sort of quin­tu­ple mar­ket. Our US port­fo­lio, uh, last 12 months, 35% ver­sus 18% for the S&P 500, so almost dou­ble mar­ket over there too. So all going well on the port­fo­lio side of things, Tony, despite oil, oil prices. Uh, Brent is 90 bucks a bar­rel again today, I think.

What did I say before? WTI is about

Tony Kynas­ton: 83.

Cameron: or some­thing like that.

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm-hmm

Cameron: Um, but, uh, apart from those things, Tony, I have real­ly [00:06:00] noth­ing to talk about. One Pulled Pork request from Trent. Wants to hear about AQZ. It’s a high scor­ing QAV stock that is very unlike­ly to make it onto the buy list because of its neg­a­tive 3PL, which it is unlike­ly to cross any time soon, plus a qual­i­fied audit.

So why the hell would we talk about this, Trent? Well, Trent says, “I’ve tak­en a punt on this one in my gam­bling sec­tion of my port­fo­lio.”

Tony Kynas­ton: Gam­bling

Cameron: it

Tony Kynas­ton: If that’s a thing, hel­lo, ready.

Cameron: And, uh, he says he’s includ­ed some research, uh, inspired by my favorite fund man­ag­er, Mr. Jere­my Rap­er. I know you like say­ing his name. Not sure what that says about you. I think you know absolute­ly well what it says about me, Trent. Um, so there you go. So I, I, we’re not doing that today, but maybe at some point in the future, Tony, you will

Tony Kynas­ton: I’ll add it to the list for

Cameron: [00:07:00] get des­per­ate enough to t‑talk about some­thing in Tren­t’s gam­bling sec­tion

Tony Kynas­ton: I think it’s Alliance Avi­a­tion if I got that code right, which, uh, have owned in the past, but prob­a­bly decades ago, I think from mem­o­ry. So it was a good com­pa­ny. I don’t know if it still is. If it’s got a qual­i­fied audit, it prob­a­bly isn’t. Hmm.

Cameron: Alliance Avi­a­tion. Yeah, spot on. Yeah. Uh, oof. Wow. Well, that’s not a nice look­ing chart. Oh my God. It was, uh, it was $1.45 in Novem­ber last year. Well, before that, it w- Octo­ber last year, well, let’s just g- go back a year ago. A year ago it was trad­ing about $2.68, cur­rent­ly trad­ing at 53 cents. So yeah, there you go

Tony Kynas­ton: I’ll have a look at it.

Cameron: Yeah, why not?

What have, what have you got on your, uh, talk­ing list today, Tony?

Tony Kynas­ton: a, Pulled Pork, anoth­er request, um, and this time it’s going to be on [00:08:00] NRW. Uh, but there was an arti­cle in the paper about it coin­ci­den­tal­ly as well, um, about min­ing ser­vices com­pa­nies, includ­ing McMa­hon and NRW. And, uh, know, one of the things that I, I noticed in going through look­ing at NRW for the Pulled Pork is it’s surged a lot in the last 12 months, and, and this arti­cle, I guess, cov­ers that.

Over the past 12 months, the share prices of McMa­hon and NRW have surged 201% and 123% respec­tive­ly. And, uh, mate­ri­als has been the best per­form­ing sec­tor on the ASX, ris­ing 41%, fueled by high demand for the resources dri­ving the arti­fi­cial intel­li­gence boom and the ener­gy tran­si­tion. a strong min­ing sec­tor does not guar­an­tee high returns for the com­pa­nies sup­ply­ing the equip­ment, labor and exper­tise.

McMa­hon and NRW came close to finan­cial col­lapse a decade ago when the min­ing indus­try shift­ed [00:09:00] from the invest­ment to pro­duc­tion phase, the com­pa­ny’s cap­i­tal inten­sive oper­a­tions near­ly bled dry. it goes on to talk about how they diver­si­fied, how they acquired oth­er com­pa­nies, and how they’re doing well now.

So I thought I’d do the Pulled Pork on NRW based on that and the

Cameron: Well,

Tony Kynas­ton: in

Cameron: I hold NRW in my super port­fo­lio since May last year. It’s up 150%, so don’t screw it up. It’s also in a light port­fo­lio from a few weeks ear­li­er in May last year, where it’s up 158%, so again, dou­bly don’t screw it up. NWH is their tick­er code, just in case peo­ple’s won­der­ing. What’s McMa­hons? Can you remem­ber?

Tony Kynas­ton: M‑A-H, I think. Just a, just a bit con­fus­ing with this one. It’s called NRW Hold­ings and its tick­er code is NWH

Cameron: Yeah. McMa­hons we also hold in the light port­fo­lio since Novem­ber last year. It’s up 96%. So, uh, yeah, two good stocks in our port­fo­lios

Tony Kynas­ton: And I [00:10:00] must admit, I’ve seen this before in, um, con­trac­tors and engi­neer­ing con­trac­tors, and one of my best return­ing stocks many years ago was, uh, Mon­adelp­hous, which is still, um, still around, and it went up a lot. Um, I think it was at least a ten-bag­ger for me. and so these, these kinds of com­pa­nies can have good, uh, peri­ods, but they can also be cycli­cal, so we have to be aware of that.

Um, and I guess that’s why we have three-point trend lines to help us nav­i­gate through that as well

Cameron: Indeed

Tony Kynas­ton: So let me do a

Cameron: You gonna get into it?

Tony Kynas­ton: yeah,

Cameron: Wow. Okay. Love­ly

Tony Kynas­ton: very inter­est­ing com­pa­ny. Inter­est­ing, uh, his­to­ry to it as well. Um, I wan­na high­light from the out­set that it’s not in our buy list any­more. It was last year. QAV score cur­rent­ly is point zero four, it’s i‑in that case because basi­cal­ly this is an exam­ple of a buy [00:11:00] list stock that has con­tin­ued to rise in price, uh, which has reduced its score. So we, you know, it’s kind of a good thing if you got in on the ground floor and you’re still hold­ing it. Um, but, you know, I don’t know if peo­ple would wan­na buy it now at these kind of ele­vat­ed lev­els. It’s cur­rent­ly a Josephine any­way, so you would­n’t be buy­ing it. Um, the, anoth­er pos­i­tive for it is it, it’s a high ADT stock, and there’s some­thing like about sev­en and a half mil­lion dol­lars trad­ed on aver­age every day. So who are they? Uh, they’re an engi­neer­ing firm and a con­tract ser­vices firm based in Perth, but they did branch out into civ­il con­struc­tion, con­tract min­ing. They still do drilling and blast­ing, and they’ve also just, uh, via acqui­si­tion, got­ten into, uh, advanced tech­nol­o­gy ser­vices to the resources and infra­struc­ture sec­tors, and they’re doing a fair bit of work now with, uh, the new, um, met­als for bat­ter­ies and, and [00:12:00] EVs. So they, they haven’t sat still. They’ve been, um, acquir­ing and grow­ing. Uh, they sit num­ber three in the engi­neer­ing con­trac­tor mar­ket in Aus­tralia. of mar­ket cap, they’re behind Wor­ley, who has a mar­ket cap of five, just over five bil­lion; Ven­tia Ser­vices, which has, uh, just under five bil­lion; and then NRW Hold­ings comes in at, uh, about three and a half bil­lion. So it’s, it’s been grow­ing quick­ly, and it’s start­ing to chal­lenge those big­ger two names. if you just looked at the min­ing side of things, so if you stripped out the civ­il and, um, uh, oth­er, uh, engi­neer­ing con­sul­tan­cy parts of this busi­ness, then it’s one of the two dom­i­nant min­ing con­trac­tors in Aus­tralia, and it’s the, prob­a­bly one of the main com­peti­tors would be Per­en­ti, um, which we’ve spo­ken about before and, and I hold shares into. Um, the inter­est­ing thing about NRW, though, is, um, is that its min­ing ser­vices divi­sion, is almost, uh, uh, [00:13:00] per­fect­ly bal­anced by its non-min­ing divi­sions. So it, it oper­ates in the min­ing ser­vices, uh, area, um, through a com­pa­ny called NRW Civ­il and Min­ing. but it also oper­ates under oth­er brands, main­ly through acqui­si­tions, uh, in the last, uh, ten years or so. Gold­ing, which pro­vides civ­il infra­struc­ture. Primera Group, which is an- anoth­er engi­neer­ing and con­struc­tion com­pa­ny in the min­ing sec­tor. Free­don, which was acquired, uh, late in 2025, and that adds, uh, mechan­i­cal, elec­tri­cal and infra­struc­ture tech­nol­o­gy to its, uh, suite. But, and it has a, a num­ber of oth­er, uh, brands like Acton Drill and Blast. RCR Min­ing, which, uh, was list­ed and peo­ple might be aware of that if they’ve got, um, going back sort of three to five years. And anoth­er one called AES Equip­ment. had a very good finan­cial update for the half. So the com­pa­ny [00:14:00] report­ed annu­al rev­enue of two point nine bil­lion and a robust order book exceed­ing sev­en and a half bil­lion dol­lars.

And they also, uh, have a work­force now of over twelve, uh, eleven thou­sand peo­ple across Aus­tralia, New Zealand and North Amer­i­ca. So the huge pipeline, um, com­ing, in terms of work for this com­pa­ny is, is real­ly put a, a bit of a rock­et under the, the share price. Some of the large con­tract­ing projects they’re work­ing on now, uh, there’s a one point six bil­lion dol­lar con­tract, uh, for the South Walk­er Creek coal mine, which is, um, uh, was giv­en to Gold­ing, one of the sub­sidiaries.

It’s a five-year con­tract, uh, involves oper­a­tion and main­te­nance of the, um, heavy min­ing equip­ment at Stan­more, um, uh, Stan­more site in Cen­tral Queens­land. And we’ve spo­ken about Stan­more in the past. Uh, a- anoth­er project called West Ange­las Sus­tain­ing, which is a major earth­works [00:15:00] deal for Rio Tin­to.

They’re build­ing infra­struc­ture and long haul roads, uh, up five new satel­lite min­ing pits for Rio, et cetera, et cetera. Fortes­cue Flag­ship Cas­tle Hill project. So lots of, uh, min­ing projects, lots of infra­struc­ture and civ­il projects. So the Tonkin High­way project is worth two hun­dred mil­lion in WA for the Main Roads Depart­ment over there. They’re doing a bridge in the Port of Dampi­er for some fifty mil­lion dol­lars, uh, and var­i­ous oth­er road con­struc­tion, uh, con­tracts worth, uh, one’s worth $46 mil­lion for Main Roads WA. So a lot’s hap­pen­ing in the road and bridge space. And now they’re get­ting into, um, advanced engi­neer­ing and tech projects, and so they’re, involved with the design of a hydro­gen demon­stra­tion plant, uh, for, for a com­pa­ny called Hyser, or it’s called the Hyser Hydro­gen [00:16:00] Pro­duc­tion Demon­stra­tion Plant. They’re involved in a lithi­um project, um, PMET it’s called, and they’re doing, um, $200 mil­lion with data cen­ters and AI infra­struc­ture, via this Free­don acqui­si­tion, um, and, uh, yeah, pick­ing up, uh, large con­tracts in that space as well. I, I had a look at their North Amer­i­ca oper­a­tions because I won­dered whether that was going to be a thing for them. they’ve expand­ed into North Amer­i­ca via four, sites in Mon­tre­al, Toron­to, Hous­ton, and Salt Lake City, so in Cana­da and the US. They’ve done it in kind of a smart way. So Aus­tralia, a lot of their busi­ness is around mov­ing earth around, either at min­ing sites or on road­works. They’re not doing that in the US so much.

They’re get­ting into engi­neer­ing works, which is basi­cal­ly, you know, office work. Um, does­n’t involve a lot of CapEx, and there­fore the mar­gins are good and the risk is low. so they, they’re get­ting into lithi­um [00:17:00] and bat­tery infra­struc­ture. Um, they’re get­ting into, uh A lithi­um refin­ery in Okla­homa. And, and when I say get­ting into there, they’re doing the engi­neer­ing designs and cost stud­ies to get these projects approved and up and run­ning. there’s a, a one called North Amer­i­can Lithi­um in Que­bec. There’s one for a gold min­ing com­pa­ny, uh, c‑called Pogo. They’re doing an upgrade or the engi­neer­ing work for an upgrade there. one more called Pied­mont, um, Lithi­um Project in North Car­oli­na, and they’re the engi­neer­ing part­ner for the fea­si­bil­i­ty stud­ies there. So, um, they’re doing a lot of engi­neer­ing work and elec­tric and, um, yeah, uh, plan­ning work in the US, cap­i­tal light busi­ness. Um, th-there’s obvi­ous­ly room to expand over there, but they’re, it, the, the North Amer­i­can busi­ness is only about or less than 5% of rev­enue cur­rent­ly, so it-it’s not a sig­nif­i­cant expan­sion for them at the moment. his­to­ry for this com­pa­ny. They were found­ed in 1994 in [00:18:00] Kal­go­or­lie. Uh, the name NRW comes from the ini­tials of the founders, Nicholas Ross Sil­ver­thorn and Jef­frey William McG­lynn, and that’s where you get NRW from. they, their first con­tract went in 1994, uh, was a sin­gle earth mov­ing con­tract at the Granny Smith gold mine in West­ern Aus­tralia. And then they start­ed to expand after that. In late nine– In the late 1990s, they got into some, uh, long-term infra­struc­ture and bulk earth­works con­tracts for some of the big­ger play­ers like BHP, Rio and Fortes­cue, then, uh, they par­layed that in 2007 into a list­ing on the ASX. how­ev­er, the orig­i­nal founders are no longer involved.

Um, the, uh, the two founders I spoke of before, McG­lynn and Sil­ver­thorn, both sold out, even though they’d been around for 16 years. Uh, McG­lynn was the CEO for 16 years. They sold out in about [00:19:00] 2010. Uh, but a, a guy called Julian Pem­ber­ton came in as the man­ag­ing direc­tor in the mid-’90s, um, back when the com­pa­ny was still only, um, uh, still only had a few dozen employ­ees, so it was still small, and he has been the CEO since then. Uh- And has kind of dri­ven the, um, the growth of the com­pa­ny. I noticed a inter­view with, with Mr. Pem­ber­ton in the AFR ear­li­er this year, and, um, I’m gonna quote from it. He says, “We’ve always been con­sid­ered a min­ing ser­vices com­pa­ny, and a big les­son for us in terms of mak­ing the com­pa­ny more diverse was going into dif­fer­ent ser­vice streams and dif­fer­ent com­modi­ties. In 2016, there were chal­lenges in iron ore and coal in terms of pric­ing. It was a real moment of clar­i­ty, a piv­otal point in the evo­lu­tion of the NRW busi­ness because we’d always been focused on ser­vic­ing the iron ore guys, then we moved into coal. there was a lot of pres­sure to move on from being a one or two-trick pony, so we set [00:20:00] about build­ing a dif­fer­ent busi­ness through acqui­si­tions. In 2017, NRW bought Gold­ing, a Queens­land-based civ­il con­struc­tion, urban devel­op­ment, and min­ing ser­vices con­trac­tor, and then quick­ly fol­lowed it up with BGC Con­tract­ing, RCR Min­ing Tech­nolo­gies, Primero, and most recent­ly, Syd­ney-based civ­il engi­neer­ing con­trac­tor, Free­dom.” Pem­ber­ton attrib­ut­es much of NRW’s recent suc­cess to the high­er rat­ing of ser­vices com­pa­nies, which he says are in favor because of the amount of work that’s com­ing from resources com­pa­nies and pub­lic infra­struc­ture. are doing well across the board, lithi­um, gold, coal, and iron ore. It is rare that every­thing’s actu­al­ly in a pret­ty good state. Gov­ern­ments are spend­ing mon­ey and the AUKUS tail­winds are extra­or­di­nary. refers to the work he hopes c- could flow from Aus­trali­a’s acqui­si­tion of three sec­ond­hand nuclear-pow­ered sub­marines under the AUKUS defense deal, specif­i­cal­ly the demand for heavy met­al machin­ing per­formed by [00:21:00] NRW’s RCR divi­sion. Pem­ber­ton goes on to say, “In Bris­bane, you’ve got the Olympics com­ing up. You’ve had a strong hous­ing mar­ket, so every part of what dri­ves our com­pa­ny has been strong.” but the arti­cle goes on to say, despite the bull run on its shares, it has not all been smi­ley faces for NRW and Pem­ber­ton. Through its min­ing ser­vices oper­a­tor, Gold­ing, NRW is the biggest cred­i­tor to the col­lapsed OneS­teel oper­a­tion in South Aus­tralia, report­ed­ly owing $120 mil­lion.

Share­hold­ers have also vent­ed their frus­tra­tion in an extra­or­di­nary run of eight con­sec­u­tive strikes against its annu­al REM report, although none of these have result­ed in a board spill. that was an arti­cle actu­al­ly quite recent­ly, July 15th in the AFR. I, I want­ed to drill down a bit fur­ther on the, uh, OneS­teel col­lapse, ’cause I g– I remem­ber we got ques­tions about it at the time, because NRW went down, um, rea­son­ably [00:22:00] dra­mat­i­cal­ly when it was announced. Uh, and so they were the num­ber one con­trac­tor to, the insol­ven­cy of the Whyal­la steel­works, um, and it’s also had an asso­ci­at­ed i‑iron ore mine to that. They were owed $113 mil­lion via Gold­ing, and, uh, the Gold­ing had been, pro­vid­ing equip­ment leas­ing and iron ore trans­porta­tion for OneS­teel, and it col­lapsed, um, year. Uh, they’ve been doing it since 2020. Uh, because of the col­lapse, NRW had to record a, a $110.5 mil­lion impair­ment charge on its bal­ance sheet, and that direct­ly caused the statu­to­ry net prof­it to plum­met by 73%, when it, uh, was announced. it was also a bit of a t- a twisty, windy road for NRW as its, uh, the Whyal­la steel­works has worked through its admin­is­tra­tion. Ini­tial­ly, NRW believed its finan­cial expo­sure was [00:23:00] pro­tect­ed, because Gold­ing had secured the first rank­ing secu­ri­ty inter­est over the assets and shares of Whyal­la Ports to guar­an­tee the mon­ey it was owed. the sit­u­a­tion took a severe turn against NRW when the state gov­ern­ment in South Aus­tralia inter­vened and void­ed the leas­es.

So OneS­teel’s admin­is­tra­tors went to the fed­er­al court to argue that the port lease was invalid. Um, then to pro­tect the region’s steel­mak­ing future, the South Aus­tralian Pre­mier, Peter Malin­auskas, intro­duced emer­gency legi-leg­is­la­tion which effec­tive­ly nul­li­fied the port lease and stripped away rank­ing secu­ri­ty over those port assets with­out com­pen­sa­tion. So I talked, we talked about Brazil in the, the last, uh, year’s show, and now it’s hap­pen­ing in Aus­tralia.

Cameron: Hmm

Tony Kynas­ton: NRW lead­er­ship at the time expressed extreme dis­ap­point­ment, stat­ing, stat­ing the unprece­dent­ed gov­ern­ment inter­ven­tion under­mined their legal secu­ri­ty, and they were wiped out in terms of its, uh, [00:24:00] pri­ma­ry avenue for debt recov­ery. How­ev­er, it’s, it’s, it’s, um, there’s been anoth­er few twists and turns, um, despite cop­ping the big write-down, they con­tin­ued to, to grow any­way, despite that. Um, but they’ve also, uh, enough, been kept on the admin­is­tra­tors to con­tin­ue work­ing, uh, for the, uh, the Whyal­la Ports and the Whyal­la steel mill while it’s been trad­ing under admin­is­tra­tion. Um, and so they have been, uh, pick­ing up, uh, income from doing the work, and that’s, I guess, the- One of the rea­sons for doing that was the admin­is­tra­tor has tried to pro­tect rough­ly three hun­dred and thir­ty local work­ers while the, um, they con­tin­ue to pur­sue alter­na­tive debt recov­ery chan­nels, um, and, and ways to get the Whyal­la steel­works back up and run­ning. So that was, um, the Whyal­la sit­u­a­tion. Uh, on the REM strike sit­u­a­tion, [00:25:00] anoth­er inter­est­ing, dimen­sion for this com­pa­ny, uh, they’ve had eight con­sec­u­tive REM report strikes and, uh, peo­ple will be aware, I guess, that under, uh, cor­po­rate law, if twen­ty-five per­cent or more of share­hold­ers vote against the exec­u­tive pay re-report, then the, uh, com­pa­ny is required to a, um, an elec­tion for the board, for the full board at its, um, next AGM. Inter­est­ing­ly enough, every time that they get a REM strike and the board spill is, um, is, uh, caused, um, the, the board gets reelect­ed. Uh, so, uh, it’s, it’s kind of a strange para­dox, I guess, about the, the com­pa­ny. So basi­cal­ly, the proxy advi­sors such as CGI, Glass Lewis, have con­sis­tent­ly tar­get­ed the pay­outs to the CEO and, um, he cur­rent­ly took home about six mil­lion dol­lars this year uh, they, they’ve, um, haven’t liked the fact that his per­for­mance, uh, hur­dles have [00:26:00] been, in their opin­ion, rea­son­ably easy to at- to at-attain. but every time there’s a, a, a REM strike, there’s a, a, a sup­port, uh, there’s a vote to sup­port con- the con­tin­u­a­tion of the cur­rent board. so it’s, it’s kind of like, uh, you know, like a two-year-old stamp­ing their feet, but then they come back to the din­ner table when they’re hun­gry. So, I think large­ly in this case, NRW ignores what the, the– hap­pens with the REM strike, and, uh, they can point to the share price and its appre­ci­a­tion to say why share­hold­ers are doing well out of the cur­rent sit­u­a­tion. uh, cer­tain­ly in the last, uh, results, which were, were the clear ones after the, uh, write down for rev­enue grew by nine­teen point five per­cent year on year. EBITDA went up thir­ty-six and a half per­cent, and under­ly­ing NPAT jumped forty-two per­cent. So it’s cer­tain­ly been grow­ing strong­ly in the last twelve months. Uh, at the same time as announc­ing those, uh, results, they [00:27:00] also raised the full-year rev­enue guid­ance, uh, from three point four bil­lion to three point sev­en sev­en bil­lion. And, um, they did so on the– know­ing that nine­ty per­cent of the upgrad­ed rev­enue was already com­plete­ly secured via con­tracts. so, um, they’re, they’re pret­ty con­fi­dent of achiev­ing that. They also, uh, could point to some of the work that the, they’re win­ning via Free­dom, uh, which is high­er, uh, mar­gin busi­ness because it’s, um, in the tech­ni­cal infra­struc­ture mar­ket, includ­ing AI data cen­ters and indus­tri­al bat­tery stor­age and the sort of com­plex elec­tri­cal engi­neer­ing that goes around that. uh, they’re, they’re point­ing out that that’s a very big mar­ket in Aus­tralia worth some­thing like twen­ty-five bil­lion dol­lars, and that, uh, even pick­ing up a small amount of that will be very good for the com­pa­ny. so, uh, yeah, that’s, that’s basi­cal­ly the com­pa­ny and its his­to­ry. In terms of the QAV I did the analy­sis at a stock price of six dol­lars eighty-one, which is almost bang on con­sen­sus tar­get for the com­pa­ny, [00:28:00] but way above our val­u­a­tions of IV1, six­ty-five cents and IV2, three six­ty-sev­en. Net equi­ty per share is a dol­lar forty, so we can’t buy it for book or book plus thir­ty. is two point six per­cent, so it’s got some div­i­dends, but not enough to score for us. Doc­tor Finan­cial is, uh, Stock, Stock Doc­tor Finan­cial health is sat­is­fac­to­ry and the trend is steady. So I, I want­ed to know why a com­pa­ny that’s, you know, grow­ing so would only rank as a sat­is­fac­to­ry in Stock Doc­tor, seems like it’s the, the growth is the rea­son. So in order to grow, uh, the com­pa­ny increas­es its cur­rent lia­bil­i­ties by tak­ing on con­trac­tors to fill the, the new work, and that’s what I think Stock Doc­tor looks like it’s mark­ing down, mark­ing them down for is the increase in cur­rent lia­bil­i­ties. But it’s not a bad thing because it leads to, um, to fur­ther rev­enue growth. I checked it out in Stock­o­pe­dia. They give it a qual­i­ty rank of nine­ty, so bit stronger than Stock Doc­tor. [00:29:00] They give it an over­all rank of eighty-five, um, but they mark it down on the val­ue dimen­sion where it ranks a thir­ty-six, and that’s pret­ty much how we see it as well. Um, good, you know, good for growth and, uh, but get­ting a bit pricey. score in Stock­o­pe­dia is six out of nine. Because of, um, the Whyal­la write-down still on its trail­ing num­bers, the PE sits at fifty-three times. Um, inter­est­ing­ly enough, it’s not the high­est or the low­est, so we, don’t score it there. Um, if I look at PROPCAF, which is prob­a­bly the bet­ter met­ric, it’s, it’s, um, a PROPCAF of eleven times, which is one of the rea­sons why it’s not in the buy list.

It’s too high for us. Uh, of the good things about the scor­ing, though, is that the fore­cast for earn­ings per share is, is, uh, to dou­ble next year. So the growth over PE score, even though the PE is quite, uh, quite large, is still three point sev­en times against our require­ment for at least one point five Uh, even though, um, did [00:30:00] have own­er founders and the cur­rent CEO has a rea­son­able share­hold­ing, he still holds less than 5%, so we can’t score it for own­er founder. Uh, it’s been a, a long-term buy, so we can’t score it for a new three-point trend line upturn. um, inter­est­ing­ly enough, equi­ty stopped increas­ing con­sis­tent­ly. It had been a con­sis­tent increas­er up until a, a year ago, and that may have been because of Whyal­la. But any­way, it’s, um, we can’t score it for that. Total qual­i­ty score is six out of 15 or 40%, and the QAV score is In terms of the risks, um, I think the biggest risk for this com­pa­ny is its val­u­a­tion. Um, as I said before, it’s trad­ing on a high PE ratio. I think that’s because of the Whyal­la write-down. If you look at, um, pre-Whyal­la, it’s, uh, it was a rea­son­able num­ber and the fore­cast PE I think is eleven times. Um, so it’s not, [00:31:00] uh, uh, I think it’s a one-off, um, sort of dis­tor­tion because of the, the hit, hun­dred and ten mil­lion dol­lar impair­ment write-down hit to, uh, its earn­ings, uh, last year. Sor­ry, the Decem­ber ’24 PE was sev­en­teen point nine times and the, the June fore­cast is eleven point six times. So once we roll around to a clean set of num­bers, um, it’ll look g- bet­ter from a PE point of view. but still it’s, um, it’s on a, a high­er PROPCAF than we’d like to see. Cou­ple of oth­er risks for the com­pa­ny. These con­trac­tors are cycli­cal. Um, h- this par­tic­u­lar com­pa­ny’s done well to diver­si­fy away from min­ing, which is prob­a­bly the most cycli­cal part of the engi­neer­ing, world. But they’ll. At some stage, there’ll also be a down­turn in civ­il when, um, you know, gov­ern­ments, uh, repair roads less and, um, and do less bridge work and things like that.

So, we need to watch for that. Um, it’s also a low mar­gin busi­ness, and again, they’re diver­si­fy­ing into bat­ter­ies and, [00:32:00] and data cen­ters to get a high­er mar­gin from elec­tri­cal, uh, work. But, uh, you know, the core of the busi­ness of, um, of sup­port­ing mines and, and build­ing pits and roads and things like that, push­ing earth around, as it’s some­times called, is very low mar­gin busi­ness.

So any sort of exe­cu­tion delays, adverse weath­er, labor cost infla­tion, all those kinds of things can, can quick­ly erode mar­gins for a busi­ness like that. On the pos­i­tive side, seems to be very well man­aged. Um, has a very strong con­struc­tion pipeline, com­ing down the pipe. A lot of it’s con­trac- con­tract­ed and there are a few metro– macro tail­winds for a com­pa­ny like this with, uh, con­struc­tion in Bris­bane around the Olympics, con­struc­tion in South Aus­tralia and Perth sub­marines and, um, expan­sion into data cen­ters all sup­port­ing their, their busi­ness­es. Um, so in sum­ma­ry, I think NRW has tran­si­tioned from a val­ue stock to a growth stock. nice to see, espe­cial­ly if you got in ear­ly when it was on [00:33:00] the buy list. Uh, I guess the, the ques­tion is do we sell or hold? It’s cer­tain­ly not a buy at the moment un- under these prices. Um, but you know, the three-point trend line is gonna be our guide for that. it obvi­ous­ly is a long way above its sell line. So, um, you know, if it does, it does drop, it’ll have to drop a long way to become a sell but, uh, I’m not sure it’s gonna drop a long way giv­en the strength of the busi­ness it has at least in the near term. So, uh, thanks for the request for the Pulled Pork.

Cameron: Thank you, TK I was just look­ing, um, in my his­to­ry, ’cause I know I’ve bought and sold it a few times over the years. Around 2023, it was one of those stocks that got caught up in the Rule One spi­ral of death. Um, but, uh, yeah, fifth time lucky

Tony Kynas­ton: Well, it has been lucky too. It’s dou­bled in val­ue over the last 12 months.

Cameron: Yeah, that’s what I’m say­ing.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: Speak­ing [00:34:00] of the buy list, um, not a lot on it this week. Um, I had a total of three, eight stocks, and two of them were oOh!media and Q Ener­gy Resources, which are in the mid­dle of takeovers, so not real­ly buyable. Um, left me with Mitchell Ser­vices, Lind­say Aus­tralia, COG Finan­cial, Hori­zon Oil, Bell Finan­cial Group, and Big Riv­er Indus­tries.

So slim pick­ings out there at the moment

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah Um, yeah, well, what can I say? It’s– That, that hap­pens at the val­ue end of the mar­ket. Um, and, you know, there’s noth­ing wrong with wait­ing for some­thing good to come along or buy­ing one of those eight stocks if you ha- if you don’t have them.

Cameron: Yeah. I mean, we’re ful­ly invest­ed in the QAV port­fo­lios. There’s a bit of cash in a cou­ple of the light port­fo­lios, but not enough to buy a full par­cel, so I’ve just let it go. [00:35:00] But, um, well, I’m, I’m just let­ting it sit there. But, uh, yeah, inter­est­ing that it’s, um, it’s not a lot to buy right now. Mar­ket has been strug­gling, so a lot of things are hav­ing down days and below their Josephines and all our Josephines below their two BLs.

Tony Kynas­ton: Hmm.

Cameron: Uh, that’s it.

Tony Kynas­ton: After hours?

Cameron: After Hours, what you got for me?

Tony Kynas­ton: Well, let me, let me kick off with a pleas­ing result from Lake For­est yes­ter­day at the races at Pak­en­ham. Had a win, a hard-fought win. It was, um, a. Well, it was a pho­to fin­ish, I guess. Um, so a close win, but set anoth­er course record at

Cameron: Wow

Tony Kynas­ton: So it’s– He’s going from strength to strength, which was love­ly to see.

Cameron: Con­grat­u­la­tions

Tony Kynas­ton: thanks. And, um, yeah, I’ve been watch­ing a few things. A cou­ple of Sam Neill movies. I had­n’t seen Hunt for the Wilder­peo­ple, which I thought was ter­rif­ic.

Cameron: It’s a great movie, isn’t it?

Tony Kynas­ton: Tai­ka Wait­i­ti

Cameron: [00:36:00] Yeah. How good’s the kid in it?

Tony Kynas­ton: the kid’s great.

Cameron: And the woman who plays the cop,

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah

Cameron: think she turned up in, uh, his Taika’s, um, last Thor film or the one bef- I think it was the last one. She was work­ing for Jeff Gold­blum as one of his like enforcers or some­thing, but she’s, she’s fan­tas­tic, hilar­i­ous.

We love her.

Tony Kynas­ton: And

Cameron: But yeah, that kid. Huh?

Tony Kynas­ton: though, how good was Tai­ka? The, scene in the church.

Cameron: Oh, I don’t remem­ber him in it.

Tony Kynas­ton: behind, behind, What do you think’s behind one of the doors? It’s like

Cameron: Okay

Tony Kynas­ton: no, no, not Jesus. Could be lol­lies, could be, be Fan­ta, could be Coke Zero. It’s all good things.

Cameron: He’s a good actor, you know. When he does stuff, he’s fun­ny.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: Um-

Tony Kynas­ton: Death in Brunswick, which was great too.

Cameron: Held up well

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, not real­ly, but it was, it’s like,

Cameron: Right

Tony Kynas­ton: it, it’s, um. I [00:37:00] remem­ber at the time, and I still think now, I mean, the, one of the roles of art is to reflect us back, what we see, and it was just great at the time to see a movie set in Brunswick.

Cameron: Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: is. And John Clarke’s bril­liant in

Cameron: Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: And it just struck me after I watched it that it was, you know, John, it was the two– It was John Clarke and Sam Neill were the two leads, and they’ve both passed on,

Cameron: Mm-hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: And they’re both New Zealan­ders. It’s a

Cameron: Mm.

Tony Kynas­ton: but

Cameron: Yeah

Tony Kynas­ton: a look. worth a look

Cameron: Well, I have been watch­ing some inter­est­ing things. Um, White Sands. You ever seen White Sands?

Tony Kynas­ton: Well, it rings a bell. Is it, um, Mick­ey Rourke

Cameron: Yes.

Tony Kynas­ton: ’80s?

Cameron: ear­ly ’90s, Mick­ey Rourke and Willem Dafoe. Uh, direct­ed by Roger Don­ald­son, Australian/New Zealan­der [00:38:00] direc­tor, best known for doing Cock­tail, No Way Out, late ’80s.

Tony Kynas­ton: love No Way Out. Great film.

Cameron: y- great film. Yeah, one of the few Kevin Cost­ner films I can actu­al­ly watch with­out want­i­ng to throw some­thing at the screen.

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm-hmm

Cameron: Um, Sean Young in that, Gene Hack­man, yeah.

But this one is inter­est­ing, uh, for a cou­ple of rea­sons. Um, not, not well-liked, but I, you know, I was look­ing for some­thing to watch and I was like, “Well, I love, uh, Mick­ey Rourke.” Mi- you know, like late ’80s, ear­ly ’90s Mick­ey Rourke, man.

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: if he’s phon­ing it in, which he is in this, and this was the last film he made before he went back to box­ing and smashed his face up and had the plas­tic surgery and what­ev­er.

But late ’80s, ear­ly ’90s Mick­ey Rourke, come on. The guy was the coolest moth­er on the plan­et. All he does in this is just kin­da smirk his way through every scene, but it’s killer. But [00:39:00] here’s a fun­ny thing. Open­ing scene, um, M. Emmet Walsh appears in it, and I imme­di­ate­ly went, “Oh, this is gonna be great,” ’cause M.

Emmet Walsh is in it. And, a- and I just watched Blade Run­ner,

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah

Cameron: the orig­i­nal Blade Run­ner with the Har­ri­son Ford nar­ra­tion,

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: which I haven’t seen since prob­a­bly the ’90s. And, huh?

Tony Kynas­ton: Which I pre­fer. I

Cameron: Real­ly?

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: Oof. No, I– give me the direc­tor’s c- one of the direc­tor’s cuts any day, but it, it. But M. Emmet Walsh as what­ev­er his name is, he’s like his, the, the chief of police or some­thing like that.

Fan­tas­tic. I’m al- I’m, uh, I’ve always been a huge M. Emmet Walsh fan, M. Emmet Walsh fan. And I saw he just died, 2024. Um, been around for­ev­er. But any­way, so I was read­ing up on the film, and I read this thing. Appar­ent­ly Roger Ebert had [00:40:00] what he called the “Stan­ton Walsh Rule:” “No movie fea­tur­ing either Har­ry Dean Stan­ton or M.

Emmet Walsh in a sup­port­ing role can be alto­geth­er bad.”

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: And I was like, “Total­ly agree.” If I see either of those guys in the cred­its, I’m like, “Yeah, I’m watch­ing this,” ’cause they’re always, they’re always great. I love those two guys. Hey, Sam Jack­son’s in it, Mary Eliz­a­beth Mas­tran­to­nio. It’s, uh, b- fun­ny thing is, is about it is Willem Dafoe’s not great in it.

I love Willem Dafoe. I think he got bet­ter as he got old­er. I think Willem Dafoe’s a bet­ter actor now than he was 30 years ago. But any­way, very cin­e­ma- very inter­est­ing film. Um, also on the inter­est­ing but hard to watch, “The Omega Man,”

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh,

Cameron: Charl­ton Hes­ton. You seen that?

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, many times. Yeah. Yeah

Cameron: Wow, that is a bonkers, bonkers film. Oh my God.

I read that, uh, [00:41:00] Tim Bur­ton said he’s watched it a mil­lion times. It’s like his desert island film. He’s like, “If I ever see it on TV, I’ll just stop and watch it. I’ve seen it count­less times.” It is crazy on so many lev­els. For peo­ple who don’t know it, it’s, um, Last Man on Earth. You know, one of the remakes of that, the old, uh, Vin­cent Price film I think did orig­i­nal­ly, and then there was this one, and then Will Smith did one 20 years ago.

Pop­u­la­tion’s been destroyed. They’ve all turned into zom­bies. It’s just him and, and he comes across some oth­er humans kind of stuff. Charl­ton Hes­ton in sort of his sec­ond phase of his career where he’s, you know. Yeah, the Plan­et of the Apes era Charl­ton Hes­ton. Soy­lent Green, which I haven’t seen yet, but I’ve got that queued up to watch, too.

Tony Kynas­ton: bril­liant.

Cameron: Is it?

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, I

Cameron: Hope­ful­ly it’s bet­ter than this. Um, and the zom­bies in this are all [00:42:00] just peo­ple speak­ing nor­mal­ly with white, white make­up on and white hair and

Tony Kynas­ton: sort

Cameron: yeah, white face.

It’s kin­da wacky, but, uh, just, uh, kin­da fun, that mid-’70s low-bud­get sci-fi crazy Charl­ton Hes­ton. “God­damn you, you. You blew it all to hell. Get away from me, you dirty ape.” It’s phase Charl­ton Hes­ton

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah, yeah,

Cameron: with a cool, uh, Black lady with an afro that he makes out with

Tony Kynas­ton: yep. And he puts, um, Wood­stock on the, uh,

Cameron: Yes.

Tony Kynas­ton: in the cin­e­ma so he can watch

Cameron: And he,

Tony Kynas­ton: and he

Cameron: and it mouths all the words as he knows it back to front

Tony Kynas­ton: yeah. Who’s that? There’s a B‑grade actor who’s in a lot of sci-fi movies who plays the, sort of chief zom­bie.

I’ve for­got­ten

Cameron: Yes. I had to look him up because I rec­og­nized his face. Um, [00:43:00] his name is Antho­ny Zerbe or Zerbe

Tony Kynas­ton: That’s it, Zerbe, yeah. He’s, he’s like the Emmet Walsh of, uh, so the ’70s sci-fi, yeah

Cameron: Well, yeah, not just sci-fi, but a lot of, uh, West­erns too. He was in, um, uh, Papil­lon,

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: um,

Tony Kynas­ton: he

Cameron: the

Tony Kynas­ton: the, uh, guy with lep­rosy in Papil­lon, did­n’t he?

Cameron: I, I don’t remem­ber. It’s been 30 years since I saw that. He also end­ed up in the Ma-

Tony Kynas­ton: worth­while watch­ing Papil­lon again

Cameron: Is it?

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, yeah.

Cameron: I, it’s, God, I, I went to the dri­ve-in to see that, uh, with my dad when I was a kid, and I read the book when I was a kid too. Um, but Antho­ny Zerbe was in, uh, like, even, like, in, uh, 20 years ago, he was in the Matrix sequels as one of the coun­selors of the sur­viv­ing humans.

But yeah, he was in Turn­ing Point, Roost­er Cog­burn, um, uh, [00:44:00] yeah, a lot of. Cool Hand Luke, um, The Dead Zone. Yeah, he turned up in all s- but usu­al­ly a bad guy. He had one of those bad guy faces. But he was in Bonan­za, and Gun­smoke, and Iron­side, and Kung Fu, and Hawaii Five‑O. You know, he’s clas­sic of ’70s TV. Oh, by the way

Tony Kynas­ton: to movies, yeah

Cameron: Yeah.

I also watched the first episode of “The A‑Team,” um, the oth­er day. The orig­i­nal A- the orig­i­nal, yeah. It’s on Pr- Ama­zon Prime, and I was like, “Oh, yeah.” Fun­ny thing was, Chris­sy knows the theme song. She was singing along to it. Nev­er watched an episode of it in her life, but knew the theme song. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

She was singing along. Had to explain the plot to her. She’s like, “What i- what the hell is going on?” I was like, “Oh, great.” Mur­dock and, uh, you know, B.A. Bara­cus.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yep.

Cameron: Well, the Face isn’t in the first episode. I don’t know when he. There’s a guy that plays, like, that char­ac­ter, but is a [00:45:00] dif­fer­ent actor to Face. He must have come in in a lat­er sea­son.

Any­way, um, but before we wrap up, I’ve also been r- go- I’ve gone back to “The Odessa File,” um, which I kin­da got bored of at some stage or got side­tracked, and I’ve gone back to it, and I had to get Claude to give me an update. I’m like, “Okay, I’m on page, uh, chap­ter what­ev­er. Remind me what’s hap­pened,” and it sort of gave me a, uh, a quick update.

But I’m real­ly enjoy­ing it, par­tic­u­lar­ly when he start­ed to talk about the pen­e­tra­tion of Nazis in the West Ger­man gov­ern­ment, and then I was in Claude going, “Is this, is this, is this l- like legit his­to­ry?” And it was like, “Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.” Uh, in fact, he under­sells it, if any­thing. So I’m gonna do a Cold War series on that after I fin­ish.

I’m doing Cas­tro at the moment, on, um, how they just brought the Nazis back in to run West Ger­many. Um, and, like, it was [00:46:00] bonkers the num­bers of how many judges and, you know, the, the, sort of the sec­ond tier under the min­istry, all of the peo­ple run­ning West Ger­many were all high-rank­ing Nazis that just came in and ran the coun­try for decades.

Um, there was a big inquiry into it, um, decades lat­er and yeah, just like, some­thing like 75% of the upper ech­e­lons of, uh, West Ger­many were high-rank­ing Nazis from the late ’40s onwards. Any­way, but yeah, I’m all get­ting it from “The Odessa File,” so yeah, it’s kin­da good. Well, that’s, uh, well, music-wise, uh, got noth­ing real­ly to share.

Uh, oh, except, uh, last night I was lis­ten­ing to Peter Allen, as I told you, and, uh, ’cause I was doing a show on Rio de Janeiro for Amer­i­ca. And, um, some­how I went from Peter Allen to Hall & Oates.

Tony Kynas­ton: [00:47:00] Oh

Cameron: I don’t know how I made that jump, but, uh,

Tony Kynas­ton: I can

Cameron: yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: but

Cameron: Yeah

Tony Kynas­ton: think bit of a down­grade I think

Cameron: A down­grade from Peter Allen to Hall & Oates

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah, not a fan

Cameron: Oh, come on, man.

They like that Philly sound. You’re a rich girl, but you gone too far. And you know it don’t mat­ter any­way. I was think­ing of Alex. You can rely on your old man’s mon­ey. You can rely on your old man’s.

Tony Kynas­ton: please.

Cameron: She does­n’t rely on your mon­ey though, which is one of the things I admire about Alex.

Tony Kynas­ton: and Hall and Oates, just ter­ri­ble

Cameron: You’re out of touch. I’m out of time. But I’m out of my head when you’re. Okay.

Tony Kynas­ton: No,

Cameron: I can tell you’re not dig­ging it.

Tony Kynas­ton: No

Cameron: I was think­ing for you, so, you know, you had, you had, uh, Men­tal As Any­thing for your, was it your 50th?

Tony Kynas­ton: Yep

Cameron: And then The Angels, your 60th. I was think­ing for your 70th, Hall & Oates

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, no, thank you. [00:48:00] Don’t

Cameron: They’re still around

Tony Kynas­ton: know who’s, gonna still be around at my 70th real­ly

Cameron: Yeah

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah. Might be AI.

Cameron: Chis­el

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah, pos­si­bly.

Cameron: Jim­my still around? Requests?

Tony Kynas­ton: from friends.

Cameron: Oh, right. I thought they were request­ing you. “Can we come and play at your next par­ty, Tony? We heard from the Angels it was such a good gig.” It was a good gig. That was a great night.

Tony Kynas­ton: It was, was­n’t it?

Cameron: Fox still talks about it.

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, real­ly? Oh,

Cameron: I said, “Well, you should’ve been there at the 50th, man, for Men­tal As Any­thing.”

Greedy Smith. Yeah. Yeah. Sky­hooks. I was lis­ten­ing to Sky­hooks this week too. I went back and lis­tened to a lot of Sky­hooks. No, you can’t real­ly. No.

Tony Kynas­ton: No.

Cameron: No

Tony Kynas­ton: appar­ent­ly have reformed, but now it’s the– So when we, when I had them at the 50th, it did­n’t have Reg Mom­bas­sa in them. It

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: it had the

Cameron: Every­one else. [00:49:00] Yeah

Tony Kynas­ton: s- um, the Men­tals are Reg Mom­bas­sa and his broth­er Pete Doher­ty and none of the orig­i­nal guys,

Cameron: Right

Tony Kynas­ton: gone.

I think, um, Mar­tin Plaza, he, he may have gone or he might be very sick.

Cameron: Was he there in, was Mar­tin Plaza at, at your par­ty?

Tony Kynas­ton: He

Cameron: Oh, I don’t remem­ber that. Hmm

Tony Kynas­ton: yeah. had an amaz­ing gui­tar. Like, he must have played the same gui­tar his whole career, ’cause like the, there were big grooves in the tim­ber under the frets, yeah.

Cameron: Nice.

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm

Cameron: Uh, yeah, I was, we’re back, I, I, I got into. I was lis­ten­ing to Sky­hooks ’cause Women in Uni­form came on. I was in the car com­ing home from kung fu or some­thing. Women in Uni­form came on and I was like, “Man, that is a catchy song.” The, the whole

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah. Yep. Yeah,

Cameron: Not sure you could get away with that song these days, but it’s,

Tony Kynas­ton: not.

Cameron: No

Tony Kynas­ton: “Juke­box in Siberia,” prob­a­bly not.

Cameron: Yeah. But

Tony Kynas­ton: on their first album either prob­a­bly. “You only like me ’cause I’m good in [00:50:00] bed.”

Cameron: yeah, yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yep.

Cameron: Yeah, oh, you could prob­a­bly get away with that. But, um, women in uni­form, some­times they look so cold, but ooh, they feel so warm. All right. Thank you, TK. Have a good week every­one. Hap­py hunt­ing

Tony Kynas­ton: See you lat­er