QAV AU 919 — THE NACHO TRADE

QAV AUSTRALIA 919 CLUB VIDEO

Cameron: [00:00:00] Wel­come to QAV Aus­tralia, Tony, episode 919. My baby’s, uh, got me going on the one after nine, one nine. I think it’s “909,” song.

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: title today, Tony Nacho.

Tony Kynas­ton: You w- uh, y- maybe you’ll come up with some­thing bet­ter dur­ing the show.

Cameron: No.

Tony Kynas­ton: an episode title at the

Cameron: No. I’ve already picked Nacho. I’ve got the one for the US episode too, it’s called Pump and Dump, but we’ll get to that lat­er. Nacho. You heard of the Nacho trade?

Tony Kynas­ton: I have, but I’m just strug­gling to remem­ber what it stands for.

Cameron: I just read about it in the Fin just a minute ago. No, it’s not a chance of Hor­muz open­ing, is the Nacho trade. There was an arti­cle in the Finan­cial Review this morn­ing, uh, Michael, Michael Bur­ry from The Big Short, basi­cal­ly talk­ing about how the US mar­ket is head­ed for [00:01:00] a mas­sive dis­as­ter, but they also had some­body men­tion­ing the Nacho trade.

Not a chance of Hor­muz open­ing. Trump, Trump says Iran’s offer is total­ly unac­cept­able. That was yes­ter­day, and today he said, “The Iran cease­fire is on life sup­port.” For weeks, all I’ve heard from him is, “Oh, they, they can’t wait to do a deal. They’re beg­ging to do a deal. They wan­na, they’d love to do a deal.

They’re des­per­ate to do a deal.” Appar­ent­ly, they’re not so des­per­ate to do a deal.

Tony Kynas­ton: H- you name one war the US has got­ten into in the last 100 years that has­n’t last­ed for, like, at least five or six

Cameron: Yes. Yes, uh, Gulf War one.

Tony Kynas­ton: Ooh, that last­ed a while though, did­n’t it?

Cameron: Nah, it was over in, like, two weeks, but

just went in, sur­prise attack, mas­sive over­whelm­ing force, signed a, signed a deal with Sad­dam, and got out. [00:02:00] Um, but yeah, it was, it was a rare one. But, you know, as I’ve talked about on my oth­er shows many times, you and I have talked about off air, you know, the US is dri­ven by mil­i­tary Key­ne­sian­ism.

The US econ­o­my sur­vives on mil­i­tary Key­ne­sian­ism.

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: it is now, $1 tril­lion Pen­ta­gon bud­get he’s got it at, uh, peo­ple don’t real­ize how much the US econ­o­my relies on that and how cam­paign financ­ing for sen­a­tors and con­gress­men and women rely on that, how it’s, uh, uh, the cen­ter­piece of the US– uh, how the US econ­o­my works.

Does­n’t get talked about much, but when you drill down into it. And you can’t jus­ti­fy that kind of a bud­get end­less­ly unless you’ve got a big war at least every five to 10 years.

Tony Kynas­ton: No, that’s all true. But my point is that every time [00:03:00] US, uh, excep­tion­al­ism thinks they’ll get in and out of a war with­in a week, it gen­er­al­ly lasts

Cameron: But they don’t think that. That’s what they say pub­licly. They don’t real­ly think that. I mean, the plan­ners I don’t think, think that because there’s no prof­it in a quick war. I mean, okay, you do 24,000 mis­sile strikes and you need to go and rebuy all those mis­siles, but there is some prof­it in it. But there’s a way more prof­it in a long drawn out war for every­body involved mil­i­tar­i­ly.

Not for the peo­ple who die, but for the peo­ple who make the mon­ey on the back end of the mil­i­tary indus­tri­al com­plex, that’s where the prof­it is, right?

Tony Kynas­ton: Uh, yes, but I don’t think Trump saw things that way. I think he saw a way of stamp­ing his author­i­ty and,

Cameron: Oh,

yeah, ”

Tony Kynas­ton: I’m a

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: than any­body else, and I’m a bet­ter deal-doer than any­body else,” and he’s just prov­ing that he’s not.

Cameron: Well, I don’t think Trump knows what he’s get­ting into most of the time. He just… Yeah. Uh, [00:04:00] so any­way.

Tony Kynas­ton: in the shoes and goes, “Ooh, what have I got­ten into now?

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: Look at

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: Best shoes

Cameron: mean, and a lot of it I do believe, like there’s also the ele­ment of dis­trac­tion of the day, so deals are get­ting done on the back end and

build­ing hotels in Gaza and, uh, prob­a­bly in Venezuela and the Epstein file dis­trac­tion and all that kind of stuff.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yep, def­i­nite­ly.

Cameron: Well, to give you cred­it where cred­it’s due, Tony, uh, you picked the RBA rate rise last week.

Con­grat­u­la­tions on that.

Tony Kynas­ton: Thank you.

Cameron: Yeah. get a lit­tle tro­phy for you. Who was it?

Tony Kynas­ton: say­ing there would­n’t be a rise and keep­ing my streak going, but yeah, it was get­ting a bit non­sen­si­cal. Um, I, I think the impor­tant thing to come out of the rate rise, though, was the mes­sage from the gov­er­nor telling the trea­sur­er not to put spend­ing into today’s bud­get. we’re record­ing this on Tues­day the 12th of May, and they’re going to do [00:05:00] a… The, the bud­get’s going to be released tonight or… And even though most things have been fore­shad­owed, as far as we know, uh, and it does­n’t appear to be many more hand­outs, um, the RBA’s right. You can’t keep rais­ing inter­est rates to cov­er the gov­ern­ment giv­ing hand­outs to peo­ple for cost of liv­ing increas­es.

At some stage, inter­est rates have got to be left to do the work by them­selves

Cameron: Mm. And obvi­ous­ly the big news with the bud­get is gonna be rolling back the CGT dis­count

Tony Kynas­ton: Well, yeah, I, I don’t see that as being big news. Um, it’s, it’s changes to neg­a­tive gear­ing I think will be big­ger news, uh, what­ev­er they are. Um, both of those were, of course, promised not to be touched before the elec­tion, so it’ll be inter­est­ing to see the polit­i­cal fall­out of any changes, and I don’t know how big they’re gonna be. look, I’m on the fence with the CGT changes because I, you know, was invest­ing before they came in, uh, as a result of the [00:06:00] Wal­lis r- uh, Wal­lis inquiry into finances back in the ’80s or n- ’90s, I think. Wal­lis Com­mis­sion. Um, and look, I think it was a nice, uh, a nice idea that you get a ben­e­fit from hold­ing things for more than twelve months.

Um, the stock side, it’s prob­a­bly played a part in a deci­sion of mine whether to sell a stock or keep it for anoth­er week or a month or days or what­ev­er in a hand­ful of cas­es, and I can’t even think of one, so it’s not that preva­lent real­ly. Um, it’s an issue. Uh, but I also think there’s not many peo­ple who buy a house and hold it for a year any­way.

I think most peo­ple’s… I think the aver­age hold­ing peri­od on a, a mort­gage is about five or six years, so hous­es are prob­a­bly, you know, in that sort of, um, aver­age sort of hold­ing of prob­a­bly a decade. Um, uh, peo­ple can look it up and work it out, but it’s longer than a year any­way. Some peo­ple will flip off the plan apart­ments, so buy them before they’re built, and if they’re with­in a year, flip them and, and sell them [00:07:00] or maybe hold them until it’s twelve months longer.

So, uh, per­son­al­ly, I think it’s being done for the wrong rea­sons. It’s not gonna change the hous­ing mar­ket. Um, it’s, it’s real­ly just a tax increase for the gov­ern­ment. I don’t think it will change the way I invest. Um, it did­n’t sort of have an impact on it the change came in, so I can’t see it chang­ing it now.

But it will mean on the whole infla­tion, even if it’s run­ning at three or four per­cent and the gov­ern­ment… and the RBA wants to keep it a bit low­er than that, two and a half to three, it’ll take a long time to hold an asset before bet­ter for you under the new regime, which is the CPI, the new old regime, which was the way it was done before the Howard years. before the CPI adjust­ment is bet­ter than a fifty per­cent dis­count on cap­i­tal gains tax. Um, so I, I can’t see it hav­ing much impact in, um, the hous­ing mar­ket. I don’t think peo­ple are real­ly buy­ing invest­ment prop­er­ties that they’ll get a CGT dis­count if they hold them for more than a year. Um, [00:08:00] they’ll, they’ll now pay more CGT to the gov­ern­ment, so that might slow down the rein­vest­ment of, of peo­ple buy­ing hous­es. Um, but yeah, I haven’t seen the mod­el­ing, but it does­n’t seem to be a big, a big, uh, dif­fer­ence to me. The big dif­fer­ence, of course, as I said before, is in the oth­er tax­es that apply to hous­ing con­struc­tion, which is a big, throt­tle on sup­ply, I think, and I don’t think this one is, is gonna change things at all.

Cameron: So no changes to QAV. We wan­na hold stuff for as long as we can any­way.

Tony Kynas­ton: That’s right.

Cameron: Well, I tell you who I’m not hold­ing is CSL, Tony. Um,

Tony Kynas­ton: good­ness.

Cameron: shout out to Ruby, Rudi. Uh, I did have already a sto­ry in my notes from last week, which was in Reuters. Aus­trali­a’s CSL knocked by Pen­ta­gon flu pol­i­cy shift, stock sinks to 2017 low. Uh, the US Defense Depart­ment [00:09:00] said on Tues­day that mil­i­tary per­son­nel would no longer be man­dat­ed to receive the flu vac­cine, mark­ing a rever­sal from a long­stand­ing require­ment and rais­ing con­cerns about demand from a key insti­tu­tion­al buy­er.

But, uh, this was a big, a big deal for CSL. Well, obvi­ous­ly they were a big sup­pli­er to the US mil­i­tary.

Tony Kynas­ton: Did it say why they weren’t man­dat­ing flu injec­tions?

Cameron: Yeah, because, yeah. Yeah,

Tony Kynas­ton: Real­ly?

Cameron: yeah, Well, I’m sure that’s just part of the whole Trump admin­is­tra­tion, you know, vac­cines are the dev­il’s work, kind of anti-sci­ence non­sense. But, um, then yes­ter­day in the Fin, CSL faces biggest one day loss on record. CSL is on the cusp of its biggest one day fall on record after writ­ing down the val­ue of its assets by $7 bil­lion and slash­ing its full year rev­enue and earn­ings fore­casts.

When I pull up my stock [00:10:00] chart and look at, uh, CSL, uh, over the last 10 years, they’re basi­cal­ly back to 10 year lev­els. They’re below. 10 years ago, uh, they were tra– uh, no, what are we now? The 16th, the 12th of May. Don’t have the 12th of May. On this, on the 16th of May, 2016, they were trad­ing at $113.87.

Today they’re trad­ing at $97.55.

Tony Kynas­ton: Hmm.

Cameron: Wow.

Tony Kynas­ton: we might see them back on the buy list at some stage. I think their

Cameron: Ah.

Tony Kynas­ton: two at the moment, point zero two.

Cameron: Right.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah, look, it’s, um… I’ve always scratched my head it comes to what some peo­ple call blue chip stocks on the Aus­tralian mar­ket and, know, for decades, peo­ple have always said, “You have to hold CSL, you have to hold Cochlear.” Um, and I guess for decades they’ve been right until this year when they both come [00:11:00] crash­ing down. uh, you know, it’s what we’ve said before about growth stocks. Even­tu­al­ly they reach their sat­u­ra­tion point, and then you can’t afford to pay a high PE a stock which stops grow­ing. Um, and they revert back to being a, still a good qual­i­ty busi­ness with cash gen­er­a­tion, but no one’s gonna pay stratos­pher­ic PE ratios for it any­more, the share price comes down.

Cameron: There’s an arti­cle I saw from Rudi. Rudi, by the way, Rudi Filapek-Vandyk, Aus­tralian invest­ing gad­about. Uh, we had him on the show years ago. I remem­ber him talk­ing about CSL.

I found an arti­cle from him, uh, from Livewire, uh, August 2025, where he, uh, says, um, about CSL, “Yes, the share price has gone nowhere, but under­neath that, CSL is still grow­ing at dou­ble dig­it rates.

That’s not a bro­ken busi­ness. There’s pres­sure on man­age­ment to show they’re back on [00:12:00] track. They don’t need to over­promise, but they do need to read the room. The wild card, US health­care pol­i­cy. They can’t con­trol every­thing. If the anti-phar­ma rhetoric in US pol­i­tics ramps up, it may hit CSL no mat­ter what they do.

Still, Rudi isn’t bail­ing. If he were to rotate out of CSL for the next few years, it would­n’t be into some­thing low­er qual­i­ty. It’d like­ly be into ResMed, anoth­er com­pounder in the same space.” So, um, August 25, the share price was at $194. It’s halved since then. Won­der if Rudi’s still hold­ing.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah, it’s inter­est­ing he calls it a high qual­i­ty stock. I mean, I’m just look­ing at, uh, our num­bers on the buy list and, and admit­ted­ly, I haven’t gone through and updat­ed the man­u­al data, but the qual­i­ty score is fif­teen per­cent at the moment for, uh, for CSL.

Cameron: ResMed was, uh, $44 in August of last year. It’s now at $27.47. So if he did rotate from that into ResMed, he has­n’t done well either.

Tony Kynas­ton: No.

Cameron: almost [00:13:00] halved as well.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah, and look, R– to, um, to, you know, the con­text around Rudi’s state­ment, he has a con­cept called the All Weath­er Port­fo­lio, he was try­ing to find qual­i­ty stocks that you could just put in the bot­tom draw­er and make a port­fo­lio out of them.

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: one of those. And, um, I th‑I think when we talked to him, I ques­tioned the fact of why, uh, you, you’re pay­ing a lot for those qual­i­ty stocks, and when they stop grow­ing, the, the price will crash.

And prob­a­bly five or six years for that to hap­pen since that con­ver­sa­tion, but it has,

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: does.

Cameron: This was episode, sea­son two, episode four, Jan­u­ary 31st, 2020, if any­one wants to go lis­ten to our con­ver­sa­tion with Rudi and his, uh, super stocks.

Tony Kynas­ton: And to be fair to Rudi, we don’t know if he still holds it either, so he may have got­ten out in the last 12 months before it crashed. I mean, CSL’s had a bumpy ride. It, it real­ly got knocked around in COVID because essen­tial­ly it’s a com­pa­ny which takes blood [00:14:00] dona­tions and then makes plas­ma and dis­trib­utes the plas­ma or sells the plas­ma from the blood dona­tions. Uh, and they, they shut down dur­ing COVID, so it had a prob­lem then. it real­ized that it had to diver­si­fy away from that kind of busi­ness, so it start­ed buy­ing oth­er adja­cent busi­ness­es, and some of those are being writ­ten down at the moment, so they haven’t worked out well for them either.

Cameron: If you held it for a cou­ple of years pri­or to COVID, you did okay. It, uh, sort of, uh, Novem­ber 2016, it was trad­ing at 100 bucks. When we had Rudi on the show, Jan­u­ary 2020, it was trad­ing at 300.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah. Yeah, that’s, that’s– it’s the clas­sic growth stock sort of stock graph over the long term,

Cameron: shh.

Tony Kynas­ton: and it goes up and it goes up, and then it crash­es back to a 10-year low.

Cameron: Yeah. And then from Jan­u­ary 2020 when it hit 300 bucks, it basi­cal­ly hov­ered between 300 and 250 up until the begin­ning of last [00:15:00] year, and it’s been slid­ing down­wards ever since.

Tony Kynas­ton: It’s the same as the Bit­coin graph. It’s the same as the dot­com graphs. It’s gonna be the same as the AI

Cameron: Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: but, yeah. You’re, you’re buy­ing hot air, and you’re

Cameron: Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: it

Cameron: Gas. We want mass, not gas. Mass, not gas. Uh, well, uh, some­body who had to sell his gas was Andrew Aber­crom­bie, Hum­m’s founder. We’ve talked about him a bit over the, over the last year.

Tony Kynas­ton: a very inter­est­ing takeover sit­u­a­tion, isn’t it?

Cameron: This is in The Fin, uh, yes­ter­day. Hum­m’s founder, Andrew Aber­crom­bie, ordered to sell $11 mil­lion stake. A pan­el that adju­di­cates on merg­ers and acqui­si­tions has ordered Humm founder, Andrew Aber­crom­bie, to sell shares in the con­sumer and com­mer­cial financ­ing group after find­ing he and the board repeat­ed­ly mis­led [00:16:00] investors about a $385 mil­lion bid by rival Cred­it Corp.

The pan­el, which issued damn­ing orders late on Fri­day, is forc­ing Aber­crom­bie to sell a par­cel of 15 mil­lion Humm shares. He con­tro­ver­sial­ly start­ed acquir­ing those shares on Decem­ber 17th, the day after– Oh, sor­ry, the day the Cred­it Corp offer was dis­closed to investors and con­tin­ued buy­ing in the two days fol­low­ing.

So, um, yeah, there you go.

Tony Kynas­ton: Inter­est­ing, uh, write up in the Fin Review on the week­end about this. And, uh, there was spec­u­la­tion that, he was appeal­ing the takeover’s, uh, deci­sion that the whole thing was a delay­ing tac­tic to avoid hav­ing an EGM which is being called. Uh, and, uh, if he does have to sell the shares, his vot­ing stake will be low­er when the EGM is called, uh, and so the out­come may not suit him.

And you remem­ber we had, uh, Collins Street Investors on. They’re, they’re part of the, [00:17:00] the two activist investors who have, along with… Oh, I for­get now the third per­son who took them to the takeovers pan­el. But they’ve all been oppos­ing this, um, the cur­rent sit­u­a­tion with HUM, for not dis­clos­ing the Cred­it Corp, offer in a time­ly man­ner and then for share trad­ing, uh, straight away at the announce­ment.

So, uh, it’s still got a long way to play out. We’ll see what hap­pens. The share price isn’t doing too bad for HUM. I’ve noticed they haven’t looked at Cred­it Corp for a while, so, uh, I think it’s still a watch this space.

Cameron: The oth­er activist investor is the very unfor­tu­nate­ly named Mr. Rap­er, Jere­my Rap­er.

Tony Kynas­ton: no, sor­ry, the per­son I was think­ing of was Anton Tagli­a­fer­ro.

Cameron: Ah, okay.

Tony Kynas­ton: yeah, he, uh, I think he’s

Cameron: Also unfor­tu­nate­ly named.

Tony Kynas­ton: but, um, still active­ly involved with his invest­ments.

Cameron: Ooh, Tony. Ooh. OOO’s got anoth­er offer.

Tony Kynas­ton: [00:18:00] Anoth­er one?

Cameron: Well, when did you see the last one?

Tony Kynas­ton: That’s what I’m say­ing. Is it, is it anoth­er one? I thought it’s the first one I can think of.

Cameron: Well, they, ha-

Tony Kynas­ton: from

Cameron: th-

they had an offer from Pacif­ic Equi­ty Part­ners.

They’ve got anoth­er one as of yes­ter­day, um, from iSquared Cap­i­tal.

Tony Kynas­ton: I haven’t seen that.

Cameron: it up, uh, this morn­ing. OOO Media advis­es that it has received an unso­licit­ed, con­di­tion­al, non-bind­ing, indica­tive offer from iSquared Cap­i­tal, ISQ, to acquire 100% of the issued share cap­i­tal of OOO for cash con­sid­er­a­tion of $1.45 per share by way of scheme of arrange­ment.

This fol­lows the receipt of an unso­licit­ed, con­di­tion­al, non-bind­ing, indica­tive offer from Pacif­ic Equi­ty Part­ners, PEP, to acquire 100% of the issued share cap­i­tal for $1.40 a share. So, um, they’re con­sid­er­ing both pro­pos­als, and the board has unan­i­mous­ly [00:19:00] deter­mined that nei­ther pro­pos­al ade­quate­ly reflects the intrin­sic val­ue of OOO.

Oh, boy.

Tony Kynas­ton: a third big fish to come and, come and get them. I’m just look­ing at the share graph. They’re one cent below their buy line at the moment.

Cameron: Right.

Tony Kynas­ton: Hmm.

Cameron: Mm. Um, so I don’t know. I don’t think we hold OOO.

Tony Kynas­ton: No, I think it, it was, has been a sell for a while, even though it was on the buy list last year. But I think, yeah, I think you sold it from all the port­fo­lios you men­tioned last week.

Cameron: Did I? Yeah.

So what’s hap­pened with this new announce­ment? Let me see. OOO.

ooh, it’s jump­ing around with these, it’s, well, for both offers. It’s jumped from 85 cents at the end of April up to $1.30 Yes, but I do not own any OOO or any HUM [00:20:00] for that mat­ter. No OOOs, no HUMs, but they have been reg­u­lar play­ers on our buy list over the last cou­ple of years, as has CGF.

I added CGF as a pos­si­ble buy for Lite yes­ter­day. I think I’ve bought and sold CGF like, actu­al­ly I still have it open here, uh, six times

Tony Kynas­ton: Eight’s

Cameron: since we’ve been doing QAV. That includes my super and the dum­my port­fo­lio and the Lite port­fo­lios. I was like sev­enth time lucky.

Tony Kynas­ton: charm.

Cameron: Well, as I said in the Lite, um, email I sent out yes­ter­day, I’ve learnt not to, not to, uh, sec­ond guess the check­list and, you know, HUM and OOO, uh, well, OOO is a good exam­ple of that. Like, I bought and sold OOO so many bloody times, um, because it was going [00:21:00] nowhere. OML, right? Are they OML?

Tony Kynas­ton: are, yeah.

Cameron: Yeah, right. Oh my God, look at that.

One, two, three, four, five, six, sev­en, eight, nine, ten, 11 parcels I’ve bought and sold from OML over the years.

Tony Kynas­ton: goes through, ’cause they both sound like they’re pri­vate equi­ty com­pa­nies, then, uh, you won’t have to wor­ry about it again.

Cameron: Mm.

Tony Kynas­ton: It’ll be one of those stocks that Stephen Mayne talks about that, uh, are being tak­en pri­vate from the ASX.

Cameron: Yeah. Mind you, I think, as I think I said last week, its cur­rent price of a dol­lar thir­ty is below every buy price I’ve ever paid for it over the la- over those 11 parcels.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah, right. So you’re

Cameron: Well and tru­ly.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: Yeah, even where it is today, I’d still be los­ing mon­ey.

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm.

Cameron: Yeah, even where it is today, I’d still be los­ing mon­ey.

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm.

Cameron: But yeah, CGF. Um, Michael emailed me and asked if you’d do a Pulled Pork on WEB, um, Web­jet, I think that is, the trav­el group.

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: that it has­n’t been on the buy list [00:22:00] in the last five years, so

don’t know how that’s gonna work out. But, uh, why the hell not?

Tony Kynas­ton: I

Cameron: you ha-

Tony Kynas­ton: to get, um, rec­om­men­da­tions, although I’ll just point out I’ve still got three to get through from the last list. I’ll do one today, so Web­jet will be in

Cameron: There you go, Michael.

Tony Kynas­ton: a bit fur­ther as well.

But

Cameron: Mm.

Tony Kynas­ton: um, I’m not gonna– I’m gonna do one from, uh, the oth­er list that, the oth­er rec­om­men­da­tions that came through today, uh, which is Smart­Park­ing. um, if, I had­n’t had requests, I would have had a look at, uh, TCO. Um, so I’m just gonna high­light that, that peo­ple might wan­na have a look at that. A very, very small ADT stock. Uh, it’s just, uh, come onto the buy list, at least

Cameron: Hey.

Tony Kynas­ton: sure if it’s on yours, Cam. The ADT may have been too small. I think it’s just burst through, to about thir­ty-four thou­sand ADT, but [00:23:00] it’s, it’s, um, the share price is almost ver­ti­cal at the moment.

Cameron: Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: look, run­ning a small port­fo­lio, have a look at that one. And I might get to it in a few weeks’ time, but if it’s still going strong. But yeah. for the rec­om­men­da­tions, but I’ll get to WEB in a cou­ple of weeks.

Cameron: TCO isn’t on mine. I’m just gonna look up why. TCO would­n’t be ADT. That ADT would be good enough. Uh, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

Tony Kynas­ton: ’ the ADT last week I think was below.

Cameron: Accord­ing to my check­list, the aver­age dai­ly trade is $1,000.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah, that Stock Doc­tor’s now say­ing thir­ty-four thou­sand, isn’t it?

Cameron: I don’t know. How does it go from 1,000 on the week­end to 34,000 today? Is it… I guess peo­ple got excit­ed about it for some rea­son.

Trans­metro Cor­po­ra­tion. Aver­age da- Oh, hold on. Aver­age dai­ly trad­ed.

[00:24:00] Okay. Well, it’s show­ing 323,000 on Stock Doc­tor.

Tony Kynas­ton: It’s going through the roof. I think my down­load done this morn­ing was thir­ty-four thou­sand from mem­o­ry. I’ll look it up.

Cameron: Hmm. No, it’s… Or is it 323? Hold on. Is that thou­sands or is that just dol­lars?

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah, it might be dol­lars.

Cameron: $323?

Tony Kynas­ton: you’re right. Sor­ry. I’ll take that back. I’m get­ting $1,000 on my down­load now too.

Cameron: Is it just dol­lars?

Tony Kynas­ton: I think so.

Cameron: Yeah, it does­n’t have any zeros in brack­ets after it, so yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: I’ll take

Cameron: dai­ly trade, $323. Yeah, that is a lit­tle bit below my ADT cut­off. What do they do, these peo­ple?

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah. I

Cameron: Aus­tralian trans­port ser­vices and infra­struc­ture com­pa­ny spe­cial­iz­ing in the design, man­u­fac­ture, and oper­a­tion of pas­sen­ger trans­port sys­tems, track work, and [00:25:00] asso­ci­at­ed sup­port ser­vices.

Hmm, okay. Well, there you go.

Tony Kynas­ton: All right. Well, I won’t be doing a Pulled Pork on them. It’s too small.

Cameron: Hmm. Mar­ket cap of 43 mil. Well, Dave from Newy sent me an inter­est­ing email. Um, “I’ve lis­tened with inter­est to a cou­ple of Aussie pods recent­ly about Pulled Pork requests from a Dave from Newy. I can con­firm that as the OG Dave from Newy, they did not come from me. Either there’s been a cler­i­cal error at head office or there is some­one out there mas­querad­ing.

If it’s the lat­ter, tell him it’s pis­tols at dawn at Dixon Beach.” I did, I did look up,

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: last ref­er­ence to Dave from Newy, and you did do a Pulled Pork a cou­ple of weeks ago, and you said … No, you did Pete.

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, okay.

Cameron: You said that was a request from Dave from Newy. And, uh, I don’t know who the oth­er one was. Was it Kuskal, [00:26:00] you said?

Tony Kynas­ton: I, going on mem­o­ry here, but I thought so, yeah.

Cameron: Hmm. Any­way, I think you might just, uh, be say­ing Dave from Newy every time. Just,

it’s the divine

Tony Kynas­ton: You’re our default lis­ten­er, Dave.

Cameron: Oh, we’ll just say it’s Dave from Newy.

Tony Kynas­ton: y‑you play a

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: role in, in this pod­cast.

Cameron: Yeah. ‘Cause you’re the only per­son who tells us where you’re from when you say you’re … Yeah, it’s mem­o­rable. It’s brand­ing.

Tony Kynas­ton: uh, when Stephen Mayne con­fessed on The Mon­ey Cafe pod­cast that was respon­si­ble for all the female ques­tions that they were get­ting in.

Cameron: So sor­ry about, uh, that mis­rep­re­sen­ta­tion, Dave. He’s also says, “Sor­ry for the delayed response to Tony’s fol­low-up ques­tion to my five-year feed­back email a cou­ple of months back.” That actu­al­ly was from the real Dave from Newy. He says, “I wrote I’d exper­i­ment­ed with buy­ing off the watch list. The short answer is yes, I have been buy­ing before the 3PTL buy line is trig­gered.

But I’m [00:27:00] not buy­ing falling knives. I’m wait­ing for at least two lows, that is, a new sell line is estab­lished. So a stock is above its new sell line, but not yet breached the buy line. I’m also look­ing for strong QAV scores to go with it, and prefer­ably very cheap. I would­n’t say I’ve cod­i­fied my fudge in any way.

I scored big buy­ing MRM off­shore, MMA, off the watch list, and I think psy­cho­log­i­cal bias kicked in and I looked for pat­terns to try to repeat it. As I said in my feed­back email, my over­all take­away of my first five years is that the sys­tem works best when I get out of the way.” Thanks, Dave from Newy. Uh, con­grats on a, uh, lev­el-head­ed, uh, self-assess­ment of, you know, cod­i­fy­ing your fudge and psy­cho­log­i­cal bias, Dave.

I think those sorts of, um, uh, self-insights are, are, are impor­tant to be able to do that.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: to do it, though.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah. And I mean, there’s, there are– Dav­e’s right. There have been cas­es, and I guess OML [00:28:00] is one of them, that we can see the stock price is ris­ing, but it’s still just below its buy line. So do you jump in ear­ly or do you wait?

Cameron: Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: You know, I, I fol­low the rules and wait, but might have a bet­ter fudge than that

Cameron: Yeah. Well, keep fudg­ing, Dave, uh, as you will, and, uh, report back to us how the fudge goes. How does it taste? Keep adding salt to that choco­late fudge, Dave. You know, my wife puts salt on-

Tony Kynas­ton: and sug­ar

Cameron: My wife puts salt on pret­ty much every­thing, but last night we were eat­ing slices of water­mel­on. She puts salt on water­mel­on.

You ever put salt on water­mel­on?

Tony Kynas­ton: No, but Jen­ny’s like that. She puts salt on every­thing. But she’s got low blood pres­sure,

Cameron: So does Chris­sy.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: does Chris­sy.

Tony Kynas­ton: girls.

Cameron: Yeah. Um, but I had a slice and it was pret­ty good. Like, it sounds… Yeah, it sounds ridicu­lous to me. She puts salt on apple, she puts salt on lemons, she puts salt on water­mel­on. [00:29:00] Um,

Tony Kynas­ton: be a bit unnec­es­sary, would­n’t it? Hmm.

Cameron: d‑don’t ask me. But yeah, salt on water­mel­on, actu­al­ly it’s pret­ty good. Who knew? All right, I’m out of notes, TK.

Tony Kynas­ton: a, title for the– there’s a title for this show, Salt on Water­mel­on.

Cameron: It’s bet­ter than nacho, the nacho trade, real­ly? All right, I’ll con­sid­er it. I’ll let I- I’ll let AI decide.

Tony Kynas­ton: It’s fine. I’ll defer. I had

Cameron: Coin toss.

Tony Kynas­ton: about.

Cameron: Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: been anoth­er merg­er, not just the OML or the OML offer or the HUM offer Um, but there’s, uh, a, a merg­er between Volt Min­er­als, which was on the buy list, uh, uh, recent­ly last year even ear­li­er this year, and Reg­is Resources, which again has been on the buy list as well.

So I think it is being held by some peo­ple out there, or they’re both being held by some peo­ple out there. Uh, in a nut­shell, it looks [00:30:00] like a merg­er of equals. So I think, uh, the merg­er’s going to mean that when the– it’s a scrip offer so that there’ll be a ratio of shares from one to the oth­er. But, um, Volt will end up own­ing forty– about forty-nine per­cent of the new com­pa­ny and Reg­is about fifty-one per­cent. Uh, that puts them into third place in terms of the size of, by gold pro­duc­tion, um, on the ASX, uh, is, is, you know, get­ting up there. It’s a large, now a large cap gold mine of the com­bined enti­ty. It’s gonna have about, uh, just under an eleven bil­lion dol­lar mar­ket cap. Um, and, uh, I guess s- the oth­er inter­est­ing thing about it is that both these com­pa­nies, pos­si­bly because they’re on the buy list, have, uh, lit­tle debt and lots of cash.

And the merg­er, there’s about one point nine bil­lion dol­lars sit­ting on the com­bined bal­ance sheet. And there was an arti­cle in The Fin, [00:31:00] uh, recent­ly any­way, last week I think, in Street Talk, uh, said, “The ele­phant in the room at today’s eleven bil­lion dol­lar merg­er of Volt Min­er­als and Reg­is Resources was Gen­e­sis Min­er­als boss Raleigh Fin­layson. So, uh, Gen­e­sis Min­er­als is also anoth­er com­pa­ny try­ing to con­sol­i­date gold com­pa­nies and, um, has done it a cou­ple of times, focus­ing on oper­at­ing syn­er­gies so, uh, and focus­ing on, uh, Kal­go­or­lie mine oper­a­tors. Gen­e­sis now has been beat­en to the punch a cou­ple of times by Volt, for a com­pa­ny called Red 5, which, uh, Volt took over and Gen­e­sis was look­ing at. Uh, and, um, arti­cle goes on to spec­u­late that now that these two com­pa­nies have merged and they have near­ly two bil­lion dol­lars of cash, that they may actu­al­ly start on the prowl and per­haps Gen­e­sis is one of the com­pa­nies that they might take over. [00:32:00] So I know that, um, some of the analy­sis I read said that the merg­er was great and, uh, it pro­vid­ed this cash box, which would mean the, the com­pa­ny would pay div­i­dends or return the cap­i­tal to share­hold­ers. Uh, but Street Talk is, in the AFR, is sug­gest­ing it may lead to more merg­ers and acqui­si­tion plays in the space. that’s by the by. Um, luck to the peo­ple who are hold­ing it and, uh, we’ll see what hap­pens.

Cameron: Is the Gen­e­sis Peter Gabriel era Gen­e­sis or Phil Collins era Gen­e­sis? Oh, his era Ge- he’s the new guy, Jan. I heard a good, heard a good sto­ry just by the by. Uh, do you know who Bob Ezrin is?

Tony Kynas­ton: No.

Cameron: One of the great record pro­duc­ers of all time, par­tic­u­lar­ly ’70s, ’80s record pro­duc­er. Uh, did a lot of Alice Coop­er’s albums in the ’70s and ’80s.

Um, did some with Lou Reed, did Pink Floyd, “The Wall,” did [00:33:00] a bunch of Kiss albums. But, uh, I was watch­ing, uh, an inter­view with him recent­ly, and he was talk­ing about how he end­ed up get­ting involved with Lou. He, he had done, um, when he was, like, 21, he had pro­duced a cov­er that Mitch Ryder did of, um, “Rock­’n’roll,” Vel­vet Under­ground song.

And had to get per­mis­sion from Lou, and then Lou’s man­age­ment invit­ed him to come and see one of Lou’s gigs. He went to this gig, and the open­ing act was this, uh, band called Gen­e­sis, and Peter Gabriel came out with a teapot on his head and make­up on and all sorts of stuff, or a, a flower com­ing out of his head or what­ev­er.

And any­way, uh, appar­ent­ly Bob said to the man­ag­er, “Lis­ten, you know, I def­i­nite­ly wan­na work with Lou, but find out who that guy is ’cause I wan­na work with him.”

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh,

Cameron: Cou­ple of years lat­er, he– when Peter Gabriel left Gen­e­sis, he pro­duced Peter Gabriel’s first solo album, the one that has “Sols­bury Hill” on it. Um, I think gui­tar on that is played by Robert Fripp, too, [00:34:00] from mem­o­ry.

Any­way, so yeah, Bob Ezrin. And so I got a great sto­ry. Oh, it’s not great. I got a sto­ry about that. 20 years ago, um- I was at a, an event, a Microsoft… No, it was a tech indus­try event some­where in Mel­bourne or Syd­ney, and the iPhone had just come out. So it’s 20- 2007 maybe, eight. And there was an Amer­i­can– We did­n’t have them in this coun­try, and there was an Amer­i­can woman, I think she was a jour­nal­ist, who was at this thing, and she had an iPhone, and she was sh- pass­ing it around so we could all play with the first iPhone.

She was show­ing us how the con­tacts thing, you, you know, you can s- you can scroll, which was insane­ly cool tech 20 years ago. I was scrolling through her con­tacts and I see Bob Ezrin, and I’m like, “Holy crap, you know Bob Ezrin?” She goes, “Yeah, you know who Bob Ezrin is?” I was like, “Yeah, I know who Bob Ezrin is.”

And she promised to set me up with an inter­view with Bob Ezrin. Nev­er hap­pened. But any­way, [00:35:00] that was my close, near­ly, my n- my near­ly score of a Bob Ezrin inter­view. All right. That’s got noth­ing to do with who­ev­er you were talk­ing about. Vault and RRL. Don’t know how I… Sor­ry. Sor­ry. I’ll rein my ADHD back in.

Okay. Hmm. But seri­ous­ly, check out Bob Ezrin, one of the great record pro­duc­ers. Yeah, real­ly, real­ly great record pro­duc­er.

Tony Kynas­ton: Well, the only oth­er thing I have to talk about, and it’s prob­a­bly more appro­pri­ate for the US show, is that, uh, I noticed that is

Cameron: I

Tony Kynas­ton: Well, there’s a pro­pos­al from the SEC, which is backed by Pres­i­dent Trump, which would give com­pa­nies the option of going to six month­ly report­ing rather than quar­ter­ly report­ing, which,

Cameron: we’ve already talked about that.

Tony Kynas­ton: Sor­ry?

Cameron: Pret­ty sure we’ve already talked about that on the US show some months ago. Yeah, same for me. I think you raised it.

Tony Kynas­ton: [00:36:00] Okay, I don’t

Cameron: Hmm. Well,

Tony Kynas­ton: it. Yeah. So

Cameron: well prob­a­bly not then.

Tony Kynas­ton: are, uh, there’s some sup­port for it. There’s some back­lash because, uh, investors want the update from the com­pa­nies on a reg­u­lar basis. And I think, uh, it makes sense from, um, the point of view of, uh, less red tape and, uh, more longer term deci­sion mak­ing with com­pa­nies.

But as far as I know, does­n’t have the kind of con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sure laws that we have in Aus­tralia, so they aren’t part of the rec­om­men­da­tion. And if they go to six month­ly report­ing and they don’t have con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sure, then, uh, it, it… some­times it will be a sur­prise when the num­bers drop for US investors going for­ward.

Cameron: Oh, okay. I’m ask­ing Gem­i­ni.

Tony Kynas­ton: So I think that’s all I had except for a Pulled Pork.

Cameron: Gem­i­ni says, “The short answer is no. The Unit­ed States does not have a dis- a con­tin­u­ous dis­clo­sure regime equiv­a­lent to Aus­trali­a’s ASX List­ing Rule 3.1, [00:37:00] Chap­ter 6A of the Cor­po­ra­tions Act,” blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. “Aus­tralia is an equal access regime, where­as the US is a peri­od­ic and rule-based regime.

Hmm. In the US, there’s no stand­alone legal rule that says if some­thing impor­tant hap­pens, you must tell the mar­ket right now. Instead, the SEC relies on Form 8‑K, a list of spe­cif­ic cur­rent events, e.g. bank­rupt­cy, CEO res­ig­na­tion, acqui­si­tion, that must be report­ed with­in four busi­ness days.” Okay. “Peri­od­ic reports, quar­ter­ly, 10‑Q, and annu­al, 10‑K.

Duty to cor­rect or update. If a com­pa­ny pre­vi­ous­ly said some­thing that is now found to be false, they must cor­rect Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: apply to the US gov­ern­ment, though.

Cameron: They just dou­ble down. They have the

rule, yeah. Oh, my God. All right. So who are you, uh, pulling the pork on today, TK?

Tony Kynas­ton: Well, a real­ly inter­est­ing com­pa­ny. It’s not on [00:38:00] our buy list, I’ll say up front. It’s a request, and it’s Smart Park­ing is the com­pa­ny.

Cameron: Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: at some stage, but its price to oper­at­ing cash flow is

Cameron: Hmm. Was­n’t

Tony Kynas­ton: This was request­ed by Philip last week.

Cameron: Dave from Newy?

Tony Kynas­ton: not… Philip from Newy.

Cameron: Dav­e’s, Dav­e’s broth­er.

Tony Kynas­ton: yeah. And, uh, it’s even, uh, even look­ing at its sen­ti­ment, it’s cur­rent­ly a Josephine, so we would­n’t be it even if it did score bet­ter. ADT’s not bad, $420,000, uh, dol­lars trad­ed per day. Not over­ly large, but will suit a lot of peo­ple lis­ten­ing. So Smart Park­ing, uh, haven’t come across them for a long time. I remem­ber when they list­ed, ’cause they were a back­door list­ing through a beer com­pa­ny, which was a bit unusu­al, so I got some, some head­lines at the time.

Cameron: Hel­lo. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. How [00:39:00] does that…

Tony Kynas­ton: for the, for the show, names for the show here.

Cameron: Back­door Beer. What’s, what’s… How do you do a, a smart park­ing tech thing through back­door list­ing? What kind of beer com­pa­ny was there that they could do a back­door list­ing through? Like some sort of start­up bou­tique? Oh, okay. Sor­ry, I’ll shut up.

Tony Kynas­ton: become a, a… Rather than spoil the sur­prise, I’ll

Cameron: All of this shall become avail­able to you. Yeah, I’ll shut up. You keep going.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah, go and play with a ball or some­thing while you… for a while I do this.

Cameron: Wow. Okay. Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: so what it does is in the name. It pro­vides smart

Cameron: Steve

Tony Kynas­ton: around the world, head­quar­tered in Mel- in Port

Cameron: Mabb,

Tony Kynas­ton: in Vic­to­ria,

Cameron: CEO.

Tony Kynas­ton: local com­pa­ny. But they oper­ate main­ly in the UK, and they’re expand­ing into the US. They’re in New Zealand, and they’re expand­ing into Europe as well. Uh, what they do is they sell what’s called ANPR, which stands for [00:40:00] Auto­mat­ed Num­ber Plate Recog­ni­tion Sys­tems. Uh, and they use a cloud-based, uh, tech­nol­o­gy hub to pro­vide report­ing to car park oper­a­tors on their usage, they also install vehi­cle detect- detec­tion sys­tems in car park bays. peo­ple will have seen them at air­ports or in large shop­ping malls where you see a green above an emp­ty space, and you can dri­ve there and park there. Uh, and they also sell what they call park and walk meter sys­tems, which is, uh, you know, where you tap your cred­it card on a car park space and, uh, um, some­times you put your num­ber plate in or what­ev­er, uh, but it’s basi­cal­ly a metered sys­tem. uh, they oper­ate mobile patrols for secu­ri­ty and park­ing infringe­ments as well.

So that’s they do. but the main part of their busi­ness is the Park­ing man­age­ment side of things, and it’s, uh, rep­re­sents rough­ly [00:41:00] eighty-three per­cent of their least, uh, in the pri­or y‑year up until recent­ly. Smart Park­ing man­ages thou­sands of spaces for third-par­ty own­ers, so I think retail­ers, hos­pi­tals, prop­er­ty man­agers, et cetera. But the rev­enue for this part of the busi­ness, so for the, for pret­ty much the entire busi­ness, through the issuance of park­ing breach notices, park­ing fines. they can’t call them park­ing fines, and I’ll get to that in a minute. They’re called PBNs, park­ing breach notices. They also sell their tech­nol­o­gy sep­a­rate­ly, but that’s a small­er share of rev­enue. Um, have kind of pio­neered a busi­ness mod­el where they can offer to install the CapEx free of charge, um, or, or sor­ry, pay the CapEx and the instal­la­tion costs free of charge, and then, uh, they will take the f‑the breach [00:42:00] rev­enue as income to the com­pa­ny. So they install the soft­ware to be able to levy the fines. Um, the inter­est­ing thing about this com­pa­ny is the vary­ing reg­u­la­to­ry dif­fi­cul­ties which they’ve come across while try­ing to roll this out nation­al­ly. and their, their tech is real­ly good, so the num­ber plate recog­ni­tion cam­eras iden­ti­fy a num­ber plate with over nine­ty-eight per­cent accu­ra­cy, the legal right to link that plate to a per­son­’s name and address for enforce­ment is high­ly restrict­ed. So, uh, run through a cou­ple of the juris­dic­tions and how it affects the com­pa­ny’s abil­i­ty to levy these park­ing breach notices, they’re banned in Queens­land, so, uh, this com­pa­ny does­n’t oper­ate much in Aus­tralia. It’s main­ly based in, in, uh, Eng­land. Uh, so in March twen­ty twen­ty-five, the Queens­land Gov­ern­ment intro­duced laws to per­ma­nent­ly block pri­vate park­ing oper­a­tors from access­ing the motor, motor vehi­cle reg­is­ter, which is where the [00:43:00] num­ber plates reside to, uh, own­ers. many oth­er Aus­tralian states, it is already ille­gal for pri­vate firms to look up own­er details for civ­il debt col­lec­tion with­out a court order. And like­wise, in Europe, some com­pa­ny– some coun­tries also have reg­u­la­tions like that. So Den­mark, for exam­ple, in July twen­ty twen­ty-five, man­dat­ed that the ini­tial park­ing breach notice must be phys­i­cal­ly placed on the vehi­cle, uh, Smart Park­ing nor­mal­ly them, um, either elec­tron­i­cal­ly or through the mail. So Smart Park­ing can still access the data­base in Den­mark for reminders and debt recov­ery, they can’t use the auto­mat­ed mailout to do it. so despite all these chal­lenges, though, the com­pa­ny con­tin­ues to grow, and it’s def­i­nite­ly a growth com­pa­ny. look back over the years, it’s, it’s grown in every year it’s oper­at­ed, uh, at least for the last, sor­ry, the last five years any­way, I think I had num­bers for And it’s still grow­ing. But it is fac­ing, uh, some back­lash for [00:44:00] these pri­vate­ly issued PBNs. Um, does­n’t hap­pen in the UK, or at least in Eng­land as– for a start. and I’ll get to that in a minute, but I just wan­na look at some of the oth­er issues around the, uh, legal con­text for issu­ing these, uh, notices. So, um, some juris­dic­tions, the fine is an invoice. So it’s, uh, does­n’t have the char­ac­ter­is­tics of being a fine issued by, say, a city coun­cil. but the law can treat it like a breach of con­tract, and because of that, uh, it does have an effect on the dam­ages that can be charged. So, um, usu­al­ly if a con­tract is breached, the rem­e­dy is liq­ui­dat­ed dam­ages, but it’s pret­ty hard to esti­mate the liq­ui­dat­ed dam­ages for a car over­stay­ing its, uh, its time with­out pay­ing for a, um, in a space.

And so, under Aus- the Aus­tralian [00:45:00] Con­sumer Law, for exam­ple, the con­tract term that is enforce­able is the penal– is a penal­ty, it’s, uh, has to have a gen­uine esti­mate of the loss. And the courts have pre­vi­ous­ly found that charg­ing six­ty to a hun­dred dol­lars for a few min­utes of over­stay­ing is dis­pro­por­tion­ate to the actu­al loss. So there are legal hur­dles, par­tic­u­lar­ly in Aus­tralia and oth­er juris­dic­tions which oper­ate the same. thing is that, uh, the ACCC is very, um, cau­tious of, and has been on the front foot about, is that com­pa­nies can’t mis­lead you into think­ing the notice is a gov­ern­ment fine. uh, the ACCC can, uh, begin action about decep­tive con­duct. um, that caus­es prob­lems because, uh, if, if the is seen as a con­tract and not a, not a, a fine, then, uh, the only way that the debt can be col­lect­ed is via the courts, and it’s a civ­il [00:46:00] mat­ter. then a com­pa­ny, in Aus­tralia any­way, must sue you in the small claims court to force pay­ment, cost of doing that can far exceed the fine.

So very few cas­es like, uh, these ever get to the, um, to the courts. the oth­er thing that’s an issue is that, we– the fine should be levied on the dri­ver and, A lot of times the dri­ver is not nec­es­sar­i­ly the reg­is­tered own­er and so even if you do know who the reg­is­tered own­er is you can’t levy the fine cor­rect­ly and that can also end up in court for a small amount can be not worth fight­ing by the com­pa­ny. So it’s dif­fi­cult for the com­pa­ny to prove in court who was dri­ving at the time and there­fore it’s dif­fi­cult to enforce the con­tract and then it’s dif­fi­cult to recov­er it through the courts. So there’s a few legal hur­dles that this com­pa­ny has I guess suc­cess­ful­ly dealt with over the years but it’s meant it oper­ates in juris­dic­tions which allows them to oper­ate eas­i­ly. There’s a few oth­er things to talk about. So Eng­land is dif­fer­ent. Eng­land and Wales are [00:47:00] dif­fer­ent to lot of juris­dic­tions which is why some­thing like 83% of the rev­enue for this com­pa­ny comes from there. a thing called the Pro­tec­tion of Free­doms Act and Keep­er Lia­bil­i­ty that says that if a dri­ver of the vehi­cle is not iden­ti­fied the pri­vate park­ing com­pa­ny can hold the reg­is­tered keep­er legal­ly liable for the unpaid park­ing charge. So that’s the own­er of the vehi­cle. So that’s a bit dif­fer­ent to Aus­tralia where you have to prove who was dri­ving at the time. also in the UK as long as you’re a mem­ber of a reg­is­tered asso­ci­a­tion like the British Park­ing Asso­ci­a­tion you have stream­lined access into the reg­is­tra­tions data­base so you can send out these notices very eas­i­ly. there was also land­mark 2015 Supreme Court rul­ing in the UK called Park­ing Eye ver­sus Beav­is. Inter­est­ing name. That [00:48:00] termed that the park­ing charges are not auto­mat­i­cal­ly unlaw­ful penal­ties, but as long as the charge is clear­ly signed and serves a legit­i­mate inter­est, for exam­ple, like man­ag­ing traf­fic flow, then the PBN is legal­ly enforce­able as a con­tract the UK.

So, um, that’s why the com­pa­ny makes most of its mon­ey in the UK. There’s been a cou­ple of changes in the UK recent­ly which may impact the com­pa­ny, but, uh, has­n’t too much yet. The first one is that, uh, these pri­vate oper­a­tors must have a manda­to­ry ten-minute grace peri­od before levera-lever­ag­ing a fine.

So if you’ve over­stayed your park by ten min­utes, get off. there’s also now caps, um, of a hun­dred pounds, it’s reduced to six­ty pounds if it’s paid ear­ly to pr- to pre­vent exces­sive fin­ing. And there’s also a more trans­par­ent inde­pen­dent appeals process for motorists. So of things which may start to crimp on Smart [00:49:00] Park­ing’s rev­enue in the UK, has­n’t slowed them down.

They’re expand­ing into Ger­many, Ger­many, uh, is, uh, of inter­est to this com­pa­ny because Ger­many’s doing a lot bet­ter ways of man­ag­ing park­ing from an envi­ron­men­tal point of view. So, the– Ger­many has lots of what they call smart city frame­works that encour­age high-tech park­ing to reduce urban con­ges­tion, uh, that’s increas­ing­ly being done auto­mat­i­cal­ly and, and the Smart Park­ing com­pa­ny’s involved in that. And like­wise, they’re, uh, pret­ty heavy in New Zealand as well. a long-stand­ing pres­ence in New Zealand, and that’s now scal­ing rapid­ly, because of con­tract wins. And so they’re– they were main­ly oper­at­ing in the major cities, but they’re now going out to some of the, uh, munic­i­pal coun­cils in the oth­er areas of New Zealand. New Zealand rev­enue’s dou­bled since, um, twen­ty twen­ty-four, and it’s up again anoth­er twen­ty-three per­cent in twen­ty twen­ty-six. So it’s still grow­ing by con­tract [00:50:00] wins. But the big, um, the big deal late­ly is that they expand­ed into the US, and they did that by more shares to pay for a com­pa­ny called Peak Park­ing, and they paid thir­ty-six mil­lion dol­lars in March of twen­ty twen­ty-five, that gave them over a hun­dred and fifty park­ing loca­tions in Texas and Flori­da. And states are impor­tant in the US because Texas and Flori­da have the loos­est when it comes to pri­vate park­ing oper­a­tors. Uh, they’re a bit more like the UK than oth­er, oth­er states like Cal­i­for­nia and New York, which, um, make it hard for Smart Park­ing to levy, uh, PBNs, but, um, they can do it in Texas and Flori­da. Excuse me. They, um, the growth is, uh, is still increas­ing dra­mat­i­cal­ly, and they called out in their lat­est results that they expect to have a port­fo­lio of three thou­sand auto­mat­ed num­ber read­ing sites [00:51:00] in, uh, by the end of twen­ty twen­ty-eight. And that’s almost dou­bling of the cur­rent num­ber. So they cur­rent­ly man­age eigh­teen hun­dred num­ber recog­ni­tion sites glob­al­ly. enough, they only have sev­en­ty-one in Aus­tralia, so it’s not big in Aus­tralia, uh, even though it’s Aus­tralian-based. They expect to, to get growth from rolling out into oth­er coun­tries in Europe, like Switzer­land, and to expand into oth­er states in the US. They also have a unique expan­sion strat­e­gy, which is, uh, using their cash flow to buy man­u­al park­ing oper­a­tors and then quick­ly tech enabling them with pro­pri­etary cam­eras, which increas­es sig­nif­i­cant­ly the site mar­gins, and they’ve used that before to, to grow the com­pa­ny. Uh, inter­est­ing his­to­ry. So that’s enough on the com­pa­ny and its growth. Um, I should say… Sor­ry, one last thing before I leave that, is that they, they also face, uh, a lot of com­pe­ti­tion, even though they’re grow­ing, uh, through, uh, the [00:52:00] met-meth­ods about. They’re get­ting com­pe­ti­tion from large car park­ing oper­a­tors like Wil­son Park­ing, for exam­ple, in Aus­tralia. Uh, and large park­ing oper­a­tors are invest­ing in their own tech and putting it into their car parks, and that’s, uh, pro­pri­etary solu­tions and not using com­pa­nies like Smart, uh, Park­ing to do that. Uh, but there are, there are also a num­ber of tech com­pa­nies who oper­ate in the same space in vary­ing degrees, such as Ske­da­ta, Park­mo­bile, Park­da­ta and Snow­bird, to name a few. uh, even though they’re grow­ing a lot, face reg­u­la­to­ry issues and they face strong com­pe­ti­tion. Get­ting back to what we talked about before with the his­to­ry of the com­pa­ny and how they got to, uh, list on the ASX. was formed back, uh, when two of these, uh, car park­ing com­pa­nies merged. Um, Perth Car Parks, uh, which was start­ed in nine­teen nine­ty-two, and that was a tra­di­tion­al park­ing oper­a­tor in WA, and a com­pa­ny called Meter­Eye, [00:53:00] uh, which was start­ed in two thou­sand and three, was a tech busi­ness in New Zealand that devel­oped the core bay sen­sor and back­end tech­nol­o­gy still used by the com­pa­ny today. In the mid-two thou­sands, the cur­rent list­ed vehic- the cur­rent list­ing vehi­cle a com­pa­ny called Empire Beer Group, which owned hos­pi­tal­i­ty assets like the Colo­nial Brew­ing Com­pa­ny. And, uh, what hap­pened there was that the own­er of Empire Beer Group, a guy called Christo­pher Mor­ris, who found­ed Com­put­er­share, out the the hos­pi­tal­i­ty assets from the Empire Beer Group and pri­va­tized them and left the cash in the cor­po­rate shell to then go and acquire Perth Car Parks and Meter­Eye and list them, uh, via a back­door list­ing on the ASX. Uh, so that was back in the mid-2000s. Then the oth­er, I guess, the high­light, uh, uh, that kicked this com­pa­ny fur­ther its growth spree [00:54:00] was when, uh, a chap called Paul Gille­spie was appoint­ed CEO in 2013. And, uh, he kind of, rolled out the com­pa­ny more aggres­sive­ly, obvi­ous­ly into the UK. and, they rebrand­ed in 2013 when he– around the time he joined to be called Cur­rent– the cur­rent name of Smart­Park­ing Lim­it­ed. But he also took the soft­ware into the cloud, which was a big kick along for this com­pa­ny and enabled them to, offer that, uh, cap­i­tal light mod­el for car park own­ers to have the, the hard­ware installed and then for the com­pa­ny to take the, um, the fine the, uh, pri­vate, uh, over­stay breach­es, uh, the rev­enue from those to its bal­ance sheet, uh, as rev­enue. Uh, com­pa­ny expand­ed– it start­ed expand­ing aggres­sive­ly in Europe in 2021 when it, uh, expand­ed into via the acqui­si­tion of a com­pa­ny called Park [00:55:00] Inno­va­tion, it estab­lished, uh, offices in Den­mark and Switzer­land, and in 2025 when it went into the US via the acqui­si­tion of Peak Park­ing. So going back to those two list­ed, uh, two peo­ple who helped the com­pa­ny, uh, list and then grow, Christo­pher Mor­ris is now exec­u­tive chair…

Not exec­u­tive chair­man, sor­ry. he’s a rich lis­ter who found­ed Com­put­er­share, he’s been chair­man of Smart­Park­ing since 2011 and is still its largest share­hold­er. He cur­rent­ly holds about twen­ty-six per­cent of the com­pa­ny. So, uh, he came, uh, across them via his, uh, while he was, uh, run­ning the beer com­pa­ny that we spoke about before. And, um, he said that because of his, uh, back­ground in Com­put­er­share, when he saw the young entre­pre­neurs at Meter­Eye, they remind­ed him of his younger self in start­ing Com­put­er­share, he believed that park­ing man­age­ment was the [00:56:00] next Com­put­er­share due to the high demand for space and poten­tial for automa­tion. Uh, so that’s him, Paul Gille­spie. Sor­ry, I’ve been talk­ing for a while with­out a break there. I’ll have to just take a quick break. Um, but Paul Gille­spie, uh, came from with­in the indus­try. He ran a com­pa­ny called Xerox Park­ing Ser­vices in the UK when he joined. So both the chair­man and the CEO have exten­sive expe­ri­ence both in tech and in, uh, park­ing, uh, we have an own­er founder in that case to, uh, put into our results. Uh, year results were good for the com­pa­ny. Rev­enue surged nine­ty-six per­cent to six­ty-two mil­lion dol­lars. US expan­sion was, uh, doing well under Peak Park­ing, uh, they were now con­tribut­ing a lot to the earn­ings per share for the half. Uh, they, as I said before, they’ve called out an expan­sion to a port­fo­lio of three thou­sand sites by the end of twen­ty twen­ty-eight and the com­pa­ny has a very [00:57:00] strong bal­ance sheet with a net cash posi­tion and pos­i­tive free cash flow.

So all good things. How­ev­er, price has gone down a lot this year Large­ly due to a reduc­tion in mar­gins. mar­gins have con­tract­ed from what was eight point eight per­cent down to the cur­rent five point four per­cent, uh, that’s kind of spooked the ana­lysts a bit and has forced them to low­er their, fore­cast for the com­pa­ny. you add to that the dilu­tion of shares for the US acqui­si­tion, which hap­pened in March twen­ty twen­ty-five, uh, and when those shares came out of a twelve-month escrow in March twen­ty twen­ty-six, there was a fair bit of sell­ing, which has forced the share price down. So, um, it’s, it’s been decreas­ing a lot this year. Does­n’t mean that that has­n’t flushed through the sys­tem, and it will go up again, um, ’cause the num­bers aren’t too bad except for the price to oper­at­ing cash flow. But at the moment, they’ve been down a lot this year. Going on to the QAV num­bers, the share price is cur­rent­ly [00:58:00] eighty-one cents. And to be fair, that’s less than half of the con­sen­sus tar­get that bro­kers have on the com­pa­ny, but it’s way above our IV1 of sev­en cents and IV2 of thir­ty-six cents. has no div­i­dends, so we can’t score it for that. Stock Doc­tor finan­cial health and trend is strong and steady. Stock­o­pe­dia qual­i­ty rank is nine­ty-three, very good. F‑score is sev­en out of nine, which is excel­lent. the over­all rank in Stock­o­pe­dia is only sev­en­ty, it, it, uh, has very low rank­ings for val­ue and sen­ti­ment in Stock­o­pe­dia, which drags down the over­all. PE for this com­pa­ny is a whop­ping fifty-sev­en point five, um, but inter­est­ing­ly enough, that’s not the high­est or the low­est, we don’t score it. Uh, we score it a zero for that. as I said before, Pr/OpCaf is four­teen point two sev­en times, so it does­n’t meet our, our require­ments. Net equi­ty per share is twen­ty-two cents, so we can’t buy it for even book plus thir­ty per­cent. And I also add that the NTA is low­er than that because of the [00:59:00] car­ry­ing, uh, val­ues of the acqui­si­tions it’s done along the way. Fore­cast earn­ings per share growth is a hun­dred and six­ty-two per­cent, which growth over PE is two point eight two. that, I guess, is the sto­ry of this com­pa­ny. It’s a growth com­pa­ny.

It’s being val­ued that way with a high PE. Uh, and even though the shares have come down a lot this year, not enough to get to the lev­els where we call it val­ue in any of our sort of, dimen­sions for mea­sur­ing val­ue. We have an owner/founder under Chris Mor­ris who, uh, and direc­tors hold twen­ty-eight per­cent It’s not a new three-point trend line, uh, break­through. It hap­pened, uh, a while ago. does have con­sis­tent­ly increas­ing equi­ty, which I like. but the total qual­i­ty score for this com­pa­ny is sev­en out of fif­teen or forty-sev­en per­cent, and the QAV score is point oh three. uh, it’s not get­ting up there for us at the moment. It does con– Excuse me. It does have growth, but it, um- Comes with risks. the reg­u­la­to­ry, um, [01:00:00] envi­ron­ment is, is a big one. Can be an oppor­tu­ni­ty, I guess, if they can get, uh, laws… can lob­by for laws chang­ing, uh, to suit them. But at this stage, they seem to be going the oth­er way, and so there are more caps on what they can do as a pri­vate oper­a­tor lev­er­ing, lever, uh, uh, charg­ing these, um, over­stay notices or call them park­ing fines, but they can’t call them that them­selves. and I think the oth­er risk for this com­pa­ny is fur­ther cap­i­tal rais­ing. So they, they may have learned their les­son that, uh, it can tank the share price, but they did a big one to expand into the US and, um, hurt them. but it may hap­pen again. guess the oppor­tu­ni­ty, though, is the growth side of things.

They con­tin­ue to grow through inter­na­tion­al expan­sion and con­ver­sion of man­u­al car parks to automa­tion, and that’s not a bad busi­ness mod­el they have, fund­ing that through cash flows, which is good. Um, but as we’ve seen with com­pa­nies like CSL, even­tu­al­ly that have a high growth tra­jec­to­ry [01:01:00] reach matu­ri­ty.

Now, whether that’s in ten years’ time, who knows? I’m not that famil­iar with the mar­ket, but it’s some­thing to bear in mind that you’re pay­ing a high price at the moment in a com­pa­ny which is not scor­ing well on our qual­i­ty met­rics. So bear that in mind. But a very inter­est­ing com­pa­ny. Um, Aus­tralian-based, of tech-based and oper­at­ing most­ly over­seas, even though it’s still based in Port Mel­bourne.

Cameron: you, TK. I won­der, you know, I don’t know what the time­line is on this, but if we are to believe the guys run­ning Uber and Tes­la, et cetera, et cetera, we’re mov­ing into a world where peo­ple aren’t gonna own cars any­more. You’ll just book a,

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah,

Cameron: an autonomous­ly dri­ven vehi­cle to take you any­where you wan­na go, unless you’re, I guess, trav­el­ing long dis­tances inter­state or some­thing.

I won­der what the p- the future of park­ing is when no one owns a car any­more, or very few peo­ple own [01:02:00] cars.

Tony Kynas­ton: it’s a good ques­tion, but I don’t know how quick­ly that’s gonna

Cameron: Hey, can I inter­rupt? Yeah, Myana.

Tony Kynas­ton: it, it– I’d prob­a­bly add that to the list of risks that, that will, the, the com­pa­ny will even­tu­al­ly face. But I’d sus­pect that they’ll face, you know, a, a sat­u­rat­ed

Cameron: I would say-

Tony Kynas­ton: before they face that one. But who

Cameron: Yeah. Hmm. You know, I tell Fox, he– “You’re prob­a­bly nev­er gonna have to get a dri­ver’s license. I d- I, I c- I don’t think you’re ever gonna have to own a car or have a dri­ver’s license.” Like, he just turned 12 on the week­end. Six years from now,

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh,

Cameron: hmm. Oh, yeah, he’s very hap­py too. He got his first,

got his first desk­top PC.

He’s a very, very hap­py camper. Um, yeah, I, I, yeah, I, I, I don’t think cars will dis­ap­pear off our roads in the next five years Um, you know, Elon’s been promis­ing self-dri­ving cars now for 10 years.

Tony Kynas­ton: how does that work at Cape Schanck? Do I have to book a car to self-dri­ve itself [01:03:00] from Mel­bourne or Rose­bud or some­thing to get to me and then get out? It’s gonna be a, a very heav­i­ly coor­di­nat­ed activ­i­ty, I think, if I have to do that.

Cameron: Yeah, look, I think there’ll be excep­tions, but I also think there will just, you know, if, if the vision that these guys are sell­ing is true, there will just be self-dri­ving auto- autonomous vehi­cles every­where. You know, there’ll just be wher­ev­er there’s pop­u­la­tions, there’ll be enough self-dri­ving cars to accom­mo­date the amount of trans­port that needs to be done.

Tony Kynas­ton: down the road. But what about

Cameron: Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: do you still need to have a license to take it over? Like, I think even the– do the self-dri­ving cars now, they’re, they’re advanced enough so they don’t have a steer­ing wheel or brakes or accel­er­a­tor?

Cameron: I think in Chi­na, some don’t. Um, I think the new ones that we talked about on the US show, uh, recent­ly, the pods. We were talk­ing about the… I can’t remem­ber the name of the com­pa­ny, but we were talk­ing about a com­pa­ny that sup­plies the elec­tron­ics for them. Oh, yeah. That’s right. Good. Yeah. Vooks, Mooks, some­thing like that.

[01:04:00] Those new ones that Ama­zon are build­ing don’t have any steer­ing wheel. Um, I think all the stud­ies I’ve seen say that autonomous dri­ving, whilst not per­fect, is still far bet­ter than humans in terms of avoid­ing acci­dents.

Tony Kynas­ton: right.

Cameron: as AI con­tin­ues to devel­op, we will def­i­nite­ly hit a point where you won’t want a human any­where near a steer­ing wheel.

But, um, any­way. Prob­a­bly some years before that hap­pens, if ever. Inter­est­ing. Yeah. Not often we get to talk about a tech stock on the Aus­tralian show, and we should­n’t talk about this one either because it’s not a buy. Nowhere near a buy, right? But yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: I guess that’s a ques­tion for you, Cam. The oth­er– two of the oth­er rec­om­men­da­tions, I haven’t looked at WEB yet, but I sus­pect it’s the third. they’re not on the buy list. Um, so, uh, do we want to per­sist with these rec­om­men­da­tions or, or you, you hap­py to have

Cameron: Yeah,

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah,

Cameron: Well, I think it’s always inter­est­ing to hear about… I mean,

Tony Kynas­ton: [01:05:00] I think so too.

Cameron: look, there’s no rea­son to ever talk about any com­pa­nies on these shows because that’s not how we invest,

real­ly. Like the one I’m gonna do in the Amer­i­can show today, TRS. Um, it’s got some ques­tion marks over it, like when we did MRP. So I wan­na run them past you before I add them to the light port­fo­lio over there.

But, um, I would­n’t have known that if I had­n’t have done a Pulled Pork on it. If just going by the scor­ing, I would’ve added it and then if it was a bad idea, then it would’ve become evi­dent lat­er on, right?

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: Don’t do that much research. But no, I think it’s always inter­est­ing to learn a lit­tle bit about new busi­ness­es and busi­ness mod­els and that kind of stuff.

I’d nev­er heard of these guys before, but the whole smart park­ing thing is def­i­nite­ly an inter­est­ing space

Tony Kynas­ton: is, yeah. And it’s, it’s cer­tain­ly, cer­tain­ly a lot more of it these days. I can’t think of the last time where I, um, you know, had to pay for a entry to a,

Cameron: Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: to a, a, a hearse, a per­son. It’s [01:06:00] always been auto­mat­ed and

Cameron: Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: your cred­it card now, that’s more automa­tion than the past, but get­ting more auto­mat­ed as we go through.

Cameron: I remem­ber, you know, the last time I had a job in the city when I worked at an ad agency for a year or con­sult­ed to an ad agency, and I had to go out and put coins in the park­ing meter a cou­ple of times a day ’cause they did­n’t even have tap-and-go park­ing on the streets in that part of Bris­bane at the time.

And that just seems–

Tony Kynas­ton: Coast.

Cameron: Oh, well, yeah, I’m not that old.

Tony Kynas­ton: Uh, and I remem­ber many years ago hav­ing to break into a, a, car park hut where the guy used to take the mon­ey to get keys to take our car out of a car park after hours ’cause we were out late par­ty­ing in the city.

Cameron: Wow. Car

Tony Kynas­ton: we

Cameron: Park Hut.

Tony Kynas­ton: in to lift the keys off the hook to get our car out. It was paid for in advance, so it was, it was­n’t like [01:07:00] we weren’t pay­ing for it, but the car was in the yard at 2:00 or 3:00 in the morn­ing.

Cameron: Right. All right. Well, thank you, TK. Uh, thank you, Phil, not Dave from Newy, for sug­gest­ing that. What have you got for after-hours, TK? Quick one.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah, not a whole lot today. I prob­a­bly, um, wan­na focus on Red Drag­on. Have you seen that? You prob­a­bly have. It’s like 40 years old or some­thing,

Cameron: That’s one of the sequels to “Silence of the Lambs.”

Tony Kynas­ton: that’s the inter­est­ing thing. So I, I had­n’t seen it before, and it came up on, um, one of the streams. Jen­ny and I watched it, Jen­ny said, “Oh, this is a sequel to Silence of the Lambs.”

No, it’s the orig­i­nal. The Silence of the Lambs is a sequel to Red Drag­on.

Cameron: Right.

Tony Kynas­ton: inter­est­ing to see that the, um, Antho­ny Hop­kins char­ac­ter was ful­ly formed and his back­sto­ry, uh, that, um, the FBI agent this time was played by, um, his name? Ed, uh, Nor­ton.

Cameron: [01:08:00] Right.

Tony Kynas­ton: of role to the one that Jodie Fos­ter played in Silence of the Lambs.

But, um, yeah, it was just– It was– I always thought Silence of the Lambs was so orig­i­nal and a break­through and inter­est­ing, but it was, it was a sequel to Red Drag­on.

Cameron: But “Red Drag­on” is a pre­quel.

Tony Kynas­ton: No, I think Red Drag­on came out first.

Cameron: No. No way.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: No. So “Red Drag­on” came out in 2002. “Silence of the Lambs” came out in 1991.

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, real­ly? I got that wrong, have I?

Cameron: Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: Okay. Sor­ry.

Cameron: Yeah, it was a pre­quel, um, that, um, Brett Rat­ner made. Yeah. Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, well that, that makes sense then. I thought it was the first one that came out. Now, is there an ear­li­er ver­sion of Red Drag­on? ‘Cause I seem to recall it was out first.

Cameron: So Michael Mann,

Heat, made a film called Man­hunter in 1986, which is based [01:09:00] on Han­ni­bal Lecter

Tony Kynas­ton: Okay, maybe that’s what I was think­ing of.

Cameron: and Will Gra­ham. Bri­an Cox was in it. Um, who else? Uh, look­ing at the thing here. No one. Joan Allen.

Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: Um, but actu­al­ly Han­ni­bal Lecter’s– Does it say Han­ni­bal Lecter’s in this? But it’s kind of loose­ly based on the– that sto­ry. nev­er seen it. I’ve always tried to track it down to see it. Um, but yeah, Silence of the Lambs then was made. And you know, I, I’ve told you the sto­ry about meet­ing Antho­ny Hop­kins, right? Remem­ber that one

Tony Kynas­ton: one of the rea­sons for rais­ing it today.

Cameron: Mm-hmm. Uh, great actor. Great actor. I, I remem­ber see- I did see Red Drag­on. I don’t remem­ber it being great.

Did you? Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: just the act­ing. It fa- a lot of famous, uh, peo­ple are in the [01:10:00] show. Um, Fiennes plays the bad guy. Han­ni­bal Lecter was played by Antho­ny Hop­kins. Ed Nor­ton’s in it. Yeah.

Cameron: Har­vey Kei­t­el, Mary-Louise Park­er.

Tony Kynas­ton: Park­er. Yeah. So

Cameron: Philip Sey­mour Hoff­man.

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm-hmm.

Cameron: Yeah. There was anoth­er one that they made too, with, uh, what’s his face in it,

Tony Kynas­ton: Okay.

Cameron: there’s anoth­er sequel, I think. Try- scrolling through IMDb, try­ing to find out who that was, but it was, it was real­ly bad. Any­way, hmm. Oh, Han­ni­bal, it was called.

Yeah. 2001.

Gary Old­man. Ray Liot­ta, that’s who I was think­ing of. Julianne Moore, Gary Old­man, Ray Liot­ta. Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, I do recall see­ing that one. Yeah, that’s a sequel.

Cameron: Yeah. Um, Julianne Moore played Clarice [01:11:00] Star­ling in that one.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: What else?

Tony Kynas­ton: Uh, have you seen the movie called “The Hunt” from two th- two, uh, from 2020, I think it is? So the, uh, series that’s out, I think on Apple TV, called “The Hunt.” It’s not that. is on Net­flix and it’s a movie. And, uh, I watched it last night. Um, I real­ly kind of enjoyed it. Uh, the only sort of actor in the cast is Hilary Swank, and she plays a small part in it. Um, and it’s a sort of… I, I was c- I was look­ing at The Hunt and try­ing to work out whether I want­ed to watch it, the TV series on Apple, and then I saw the short for the movie and I thought, “That looks much more inter­est­ing.” Even though it’s a, it’s kind of a cliché trope of hav­ing a secret place to take humans to hunt for sport.

Cameron: Oh, yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: this movie is like a black com­e­dy and it turns the whole trope on its head, one of the, one of the [01:12:00] peo­ple they’ve kid­napped is the wrong per­son, and she runs amok and kills all the bil­lion­aires. a spoil­er alert, but, um, it’s actu­al­ly real­ly, real­ly good.

Cameron: The, the new series that’s got, um, what’s her face in it from the thing. Mad Ma- the Mad Max, uh, sequel.

Tony Kynas­ton: Char­lie’s?

Cameron: Char­l­ize Theron. Yeah, yeah. Is it the one with Char­l­ize Theron in?

Tony Kynas­ton: No, no, that’s a dif­fer­ent one again. I think it’s called Apex.

Cameron: Oh, she’s get­ting hunt­ed in that one, isn’t she? That’s

Tony Kynas­ton: a

Cameron: a dif­fer­ent

Tony Kynas­ton: but,

Cameron: thing.

Tony Kynas­ton: thought it was quite good.

Cameron: Right. Uh, no, I haven’t heard of it. Sounds good.

Tony Kynas­ton: I had­n’t heard of it either, so

Cameron: I like– I, I total­ly like the idea of hunt­ing rich peo­ple. Oh, no, it’s the oth­er way around. It’s rich peo­ple hunt­ing poor peo­ple. Yeah,

Tony Kynas­ton: goes and

Cameron: yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: so it’s,

Cameron: Hey, lis­ten, maybe that’s the next sea­son of QAV.

You and I will hunt each oth­er in Cape Schanck. Just with paint- paint­ball guns. Noth­ing, noth­ing lethal. Just [01:13:00] give us, uh, each a paint­ball gun and then, you know, it’s like cap­ture the flag. We, we, we, uh, hunt each oth­er across the golf course. Have you ever played paint­ball?

Tony Kynas­ton: I haven’t

Cameron: Ah.

Tony Kynas­ton: not

Cameron: Should get you into a paint­ball course

Tony Kynas­ton: Uh,

Cameron: and the, me and the boys.

It’s, uh… We used to do that on their birth­day every year. It was fun.

Tony Kynas­ton: Speak­ing of that, like last night there was a, some­one lit off a flare down the street and I was like, sit like– ’cause at home here at Cape Schanck it’s just qui­et and dark. see this blue flare, cou­ple hun­dred meters away go, go across it was just, you know, real­ly eerie. Could­n’t see any­thing, could­n’t hear any­thing, just this flare. So one of the local kids I sup­pose is hav­ing fun on the golf course. But

Cameron: Oh.

Tony Kynas­ton: real­ly eerie.”

Cameron: Hmm. Well, I don’t have much to report this week. I did watch Wait­ing for Guff­man [01:14:00] on Moth­er’s Day with Chris­sy. You ever seen that?

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, I think I saw 10 min­utes of it and turned it off.

Cameron: Not your…

Tony Kynas­ton: guys.

Cameron: No? Okay.

Yeah, that’s right. You said you weren’t a big fan of Cather­ine O’Hara, so that tracks.

Tony Kynas­ton: No, or any of those, um, mock­u­men­tary best in shows and all those.

Cameron: Hmm, Christo­pher Guest films? Hmm.

Tony Kynas­ton: And did­n’t they remake, uh, um, what’s the Aus­tralian show? Um, with Kath & Kim. I think they remade them as well, and they were ter­ri­ble

Cameron: He did that?

Tony Kynas­ton: Well, I don’t know if it was him, but cer­tain­ly some of the actors from all those mock­u­men­taries are in

Cameron: Oh, okay. Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: style of,

Cameron: Right.

Tony Kynas­ton: just ham­my over­act­ing from, you know… don’t know if they’re try­ing to make fun of peo­ple who are Amer­i­can and don’t have much of a brain, but yeah, it’s just I don’t, I don’t find it fun­ny.

Cameron: Uh, okay. Um, let me, uh, tell you about a book that I [01:15:00] heard about s-

Tony Kynas­ton: You can rec­om­mend Wel­come to Gov­ern­ment if it, if it

Cameron: No, no, no. It’s, it’s fine. We’ll move right along. Um, you know, uh, well, maybe you don’t know, but Elon’s big data cen­ters that he builds for his AI oper­a­tions, he calls, um, uh… What does he call them? Colos­sus.

Tony Kynas­ton: From the Forbin Project.

Cameron: Yes! Right. So you do know it.

Tony Kynas­ton: No, I know the movie. I don’t know about Elon’s data cen­ters.

Cameron: Oh, okay. Well, um, I had nev­er heard of, um, Forbin and or the, or the movie. I did­n’t even know there was a movie until you just men­tioned

Tony Kynas­ton: Hmm.

Cameron: based on books

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, okay.

Cameron: which I start­ed read­ing the first one, uh, this week, you know, uh, know­ing that you’re a sci­ence fic­tion fan, I won­dered if you had read it.

Tony Kynas­ton: Haven’t

Cameron: read it?

Tony Kynas­ton: the movie. The movie came out when I was a kid

Cameron: 1970, I just looked it up. [01:16:00]

Tony Kynas­ton: that, uh, impris­ons a man to study him. think he was the inven­tor of the AI from mem­o­ry.

Cameron: Right. So the orig­i­nal book was writ­ten in 1966 by a guy called D.F. Jones, Den­nis Feltham Jones. Wrote Colos­sus: The Fall of Colos­sus, and Colos­sus and the Crab. Um, so yeah, I’m sort of… Uh, I, I, I’m enjoy­ing the first one. It’s, it’s kind of hilar­i­ous to read, you know, AI books from that peri­od. The AI when it gets turned on, um, you know, it’s com­mu­ni­cat­ing with the humans via, uh, tick­er tape that’s com­ing out of the side of the machine.

We were vision­ary enough to imag­ine arti­fi­cial intel­li­gence, but not vision­ary enough to imag­ine a world with­out tick­er tape machines.

[01:17:00] was talk­ing in nat­ur­al Eng­lish like our com­put­ers do. The AIs do talk to us like that today, so at least those guys got it some­what right.

Had lots of flash­ing lights, which we don’t seem to need on our com­put­ers these days. I do love a, I do love a sci-fi film with lots of flash­ing lights on the super­com­put­ers. Kind of miss that, to be hon­est. Kind of wish my com­put­ers did have, like, flash­ing lights and spin­ning tape reels and every­thing. It was so much more aes­thet­i­cal­ly pleas­ing than just a- Non­de­script black box.

Tony Kynas­ton: It’s bet­ter for movies, isn’t it? When you can see things actu­al­ly

Cameron: Yeah, it’s

cool­er.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah. Like in Star Wars or Star Trek where there are all these lights that just flash.

Cameron: Yes, give me lights that flash and beep.

Tony Kynas­ton: Yeah.

Cameron: what have I been lis­ten­ing to that I can share with you? Um, noth­ing comes to mind. [01:18:00]

Tony Kynas­ton: issue of The Aints which was real­ly good.

Cameron: The Aints.

Tony Kynas­ton: Ed Kuep­per

Cameron: Saints with­out that S. I’ve nev­er heard of that.

Tony Kynas­ton: style of music. It’s good.

Cameron: Well, good.

Uh, do you see The Stones have got a new album com­ing out?

Tony Kynas­ton: I, I’ve been see­ing it on my streams. Yeah. The

Cameron: I lis­tened to the first track that they’ve released, uh, off of that. It’s not bad.

Tony Kynas­ton: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it’s all right.

Cameron: And, uh, I’ve been lis­ten­ing to a lot of Yes this week. Do you like Yes?

Tony Kynas­ton: Oh, not– I haven’t heard a whole lot of them. I did a lot when I was a kid, but I can’t remem­ber much of it.

Cameron: Hmm. I like.

Tony Kynas­ton: from

Cameron: Wow.

Tony Kynas­ton: peo­ple who were still in Yes of about 10 years ago.

Cameron: Wow. Why?

Tony Kynas­ton: one of my Cana­di­an friends got it for me for a birth­day present.

Cameron: Because they thought you were a big Yes fan or just…

Tony Kynas­ton: I think he’d been to, like, some kind of cor­po­rate gig with

Cameron: [01:19:00] Oh,

Tony Kynas­ton: where they were play­ing.

Cameron: right. Jon Ander­son are those guys.

Tony Kynas­ton: No, I got no idea.

Cameron: Hmm. Okay. Well, that’s it. That’s all I got. TK, thank you. Have a good week every­one. QAV a good one.

Tony Kynas­ton: All right. And we’ll, we’ll know more about the bud­get next week