Cameron  00:06

Welcome back to QAV. This is 616. We’re recording this on the 18th of April 2023, Australia time, which makes it the evening of the 17th of April 2023 in Savannah, Georgia, where my wife’s mother in law is from I believe. Chrissy’s always keeps telling me, “oh, I have to take you to Savannah. You’d love Savannah.” And it’s where Tony Kynaston is at the moment. TK, how you doing? How’s your trip going?

Tony  00:34

Good. Yeah, I love Savannah, too. It’s a student town; the SCAD, South Carolina Arts and Design School is here. And it’s got lots of architecture in it.

Cameron  00:45

“Does everybody talk like this.”

Tony  00:48

That’s the Southern Charm. You all have a good day.

Cameron  00:51

“I’ve always relied on the kindness of strangers.”

Tony  00:56

We’ve been going around doing this every time someone talks, we go “Mm-hmm, mh-hmm” after every sentence.

Cameron  01:06

I love it already.

Tony  01:07

“Y’all have a good day.” “Mh-hmm, mh-hmm.”

Cameron  01:11

Now, it’s been a couple of weeks since we’ve done a show. I think you were in Vegas last time. You went to watch the Masters?

Tony  01:19

Augusta, Georgia. Yeah.

Cameron  01:22

Who won the masters?

Tony  01:24

I’ll have to think now. Who won the Masters? Shit, that’s been a couple of weeks ago.

Cameron  01:29

Wasn’t Magnus Carlsen?

Tony  01:30

No, no, hang on. I should know this, I was there. Oh, of course: John Rahm.

Cameron  01:36

Not an Aussie?

Tony  01:37

No, Spanish.

Cameron  01:39

Oh, okay.

Tony  01:40

He was the spirit of Seve, Seve Ballesteros, who would have turned sixty-six on the Sunday, it was his birthday. But he died of brain cancer about four years ago, unfortunately.

Cameron  01:51

He was a golfer?

Tony  01:52

Seve Ballesteros was my favourite golfer growing up. He was a very gifted Spanish golfer, just intuitive golfer. Could hit a ball from anywhere — out of a tree. Won a big tournament by hitting it in from the car park one day.

Cameron  02:05

Hold on a second. He would have been sixty-six. You just turned sixty. When you say you were growing up…

Tony  02:12

Well, yeah, I mean, in my teens. He would have been just starting out when I was probably about fourteen/fifteen or so. I didn’t play golf until I was twenty, so, you know, started taking interest in that sort of age that he was established as a pro then.

Cameron  02:27

Right. I think you’ve already grown up by the time you’re twenty. I was thinking, like, five, and I was like, oh, he was like eleven?

Cameron  02:29

Well, when you’re sixty and you say “when you’re young,” that can be any time up to thirty, I think, probably. Maybe forty.

Cameron  02:41

Right. Okay. So, was it good? Was it your first time being there?

Tony  02:46

No second time. And funnily enough, I saw a Spanish guy win in 2017, too. Sergio Garcia one in 2017. So, next time I go to the Masters, I’ll back the Spanish guy.

Cameron  03:00

Yeah, although the Spanish golfers will be checking to see if you’re there. Obviously you’re the good luck charm.

Tony  03:06

Yeah, so I mean, Augusta is amazing. It’s just lives and dies for the golf tournament. It brings so much money in and there’s not much else there. It’s a pretty poor area overall, really, and it’s a bit of a rust belt. We shipped around in buses the whole time and a couple of times we took some back roads, and they were just all these boarded up textile mills, we drove through one day. Just literally…

Cameron  03:30

Owned by Berkshire Hathaway?

Tony  03:31

Well, that’s what I thought of, but they weren’t. But they were just left, basically. People were throwing rocks through the windows, and it’s almost like someone just turned the lights off and left one day and left them standing. Pretty poor and lots of… Well, actually speaking of Berkshire Hathaway, one of their businesses is demandable homes, and there’s lots of those prefabricated homes around the South in America, with a truck parked in the front yards worth more than the house that they live in.

Cameron  04:04

Mm-hmm. And then what are you doing in Savannah?

Tony  04:06

Yeah, so we’re making our way down to New Orleans. We had a week in Hilton Head because I love it there, which is only three hours away from Augusta. So, Ruddy and another mate of mine, Jeff, drove down there, and we joined up with a US buddy and his mate. They came across from Nashville. We played golf. A friend of mine owns a six bedroom house in Hilton Head, so it’s always good to stay there. So, we pitched tent there for a week, and went to the PGA again yesterday there, which was much more relaxed than the Masters — even though John Rahm was playing there, too. So, much more accessible and up close. But that was good. Played golf a couple of days, which was lovely. There’s like fifty golf courses on Hilton Head Island, so it wasn’t hard to get a good round in there, and lots of good food, lots of good seafood. We’ve actually been quite busy. I’m getting quite weary, because we’ve just been playing golf and walking courses. We even hired some bikes and went for a ride around Hilton Head and on the beach, and that was a good workout. Yeah, it’s been good. And then down to Savannah. Savannah’s where, basicall,  the International Airport is for Hilton Head, so that’s about an hour away from Hilton Head Island. And Jeff flew out today, he’s going back to Australia. So, it’s Ruddy and I for a week, and then on Sunday I fly up from New Orleans to Toronto, where Jenny and Alex will join up. We’ll spend a week there.

Cameron  05:31

Oh, they’remeeting you in Toronto. I didn’t know that. Oh, fantastic.

Tony  05:34

Next week. Yeah. So, I think Alex has to tell you she might not be able to do a download the next two weeks. Good thing you’re in Brisbane holding the fort for us.

Cameron  05:44

I’ll have to review her contract. How’s Ruddy? He got over his COVID?

Tony  05:50

Yeah, he’s good.

Tony  05:51

I didn’t get it, no, but I’ve been sniffling for a week or so. Everyone’s got sniffles and coughs and things. And you know, being on a bus with forty other guys and everyone’s sniffling and coughing and stuff. But no, I haven’t got it. I’ve been healthy. Been good.

Cameron  05:51

You didn’t get it?

Cameron  06:07

That’s good. Well, it sounds like you’re having a fun time. I’m really glad.

Tony  06:11

I am. It’s great, really enjoying it. And lots of different things, too, which is good. Vegas, and then we stayed in a place called Aiken, which is half an hour away from Augusta, and that was different. That’s real American suburbia.

Cameron  06:25

Where did you stay in Vegas?

Tony  06:27

We started off in the Aria, which was a really nice hotel. And then went to the Mandalay Bay, which was more of a sort of family sort of hotel. Huge place. Which was good. It was fine, too. Went and saw Penn and Teller, which was fantastic. And The Beatles “Love”, the Cirque du Soleil “Love”, which was great.

Cameron  06:46

Which we saw — when were we there together? 2017

Tony  06:52

Yeah, I think so.

Cameron  06:53

2017 we saw that, yeah.

Tony  06:55

It was changed. I mean, it’s essentially the same show, but it’s changed enough to keep it interesting. The golf courses around Vegas were very diverse and spectacular. So, we had a couple of rounds in Vegas and around Vegas. One day it snowed, it was that cold. We got snow on the course. And then went out into the desert. Went out to a place near Death Valley and played there. And so, it was like, yeah, this sort of artificial oasis on some days where it’s surrounded by rock and cactus and just the fairways are green, and then other days you’re playing through canyons out in the desert. It was spectacular. Very varied, it was lovely. So, I could recommend the golf courses around Vegas. And then Augusta we played-we actually had some really spectacular golf in Augusta, too. We played on Augusta Country Club, which is next door to Augusta National. So, one of the holes shares Rae’s Creek. If you’re a golfer you will know Rae’s Creek, it’s part of Amen Corner at the Masters. So, we were on the other side of the fence to Amen Corner, and you can hear the crowd roar, and it pretty special. Similar sort of golf course.

Tony  07:10

In your head they were roaring for you.

Tony  08:18

So, that was special. And then we played a place called Champions Retreat, which is where apparently all the golfers go, they’ve got holiday houses and things around the area and play there. That was really good. We played three rounds of golf in Augusta, lovely golf courses, and then down to Hilton Head and that’s been lovely. Now Ruddy and I are going down to Jacksonville. We’re just gonna wing it between Savannah and New Orleans, see what’s at Jacksonville. And then we’ve been told to go to the Redneck Riviera, the Pensacola in Alabama, on the way through. So, we’ll do that for a night, too, see what that’s like.

Cameron  08:55

And then you’re going to New Orleans, which is one of my favourite places, New Orleans. I’ve been there many times. I’ve never been with Chrissy; we always talk about going. But back in my Microsoft days, we used to have our annual conferences in New Orleans because it had this big sort of conference centre you could fit forty thousand Microsoft employees in and got to party there many times. It’s just a great city. I remember just walking down in the French district and just going into these little, little, little bars, the size of your bedroom, and just seeing three or four blues guys that all look like they’re in their nineties, these black guys, just sitting in this little bar playing the blues like they look like they’ve been doing for eighty-five years. It was just magical. They’re probably all gone now, and after Hurricane Katrina and all that I don’t know what happened to all those guys, but this is back before those days in the 2000s. It was wonderful, a really wonderful experience. And you know, seeing the jazz bands there and the blues bands just, yeah, really great.

Tony  10:07

Yeah, looking forward to that. So, I’ll spend a couple of nights there with Ruddy and get into that.

Cameron  10:12

Make sure you get down to Treme. Get down to the Treme district where all the music is.

Tony  10:17

Okay. That’s the HBO series, wasn’t it, Treme?

Cameron  10:22

Yeah, that’s where it was set in. It was set in the Treme District. So, you’ve got Bourbon Street where all the tourists go and the French District, which is great, I love that, but get to Treme which is where the real music is. Your skin colour might set you apart, but you know.

Tony  10:38

Yeah, we’ve had a lot of warnings about walking around after dark in New Orleans.

Cameron  10:43

Eh, you’re rich, it’ll be fine. Rich white people get along fine. You’ll be right.

Tony  10:48

I’ll give them Ruddy. I’ll sacrifice him.

Cameron  10:51

Just make sure you have better running shoes on than Ruddy. People might be wondering, why am I listening to this? I thought this was an investing show. Well, this is what you get to do if you’re a successful investor, is take six weeks off and go play golf.

Tony  11:05

No, exactly. I think I’ve played about twelve rounds of golf in the last few weeks, it’s been full on.

Cameron  11:11

That’s great. I’m really happy for you. Well deserved. Well, we should talk about investing at some point.

Tony  11:18

How’s the market going back there? I haven’t really kept in touch with it.

Cameron  11:21

It’s had a great couple of weeks, you should go away more often. I keep saying that whenever you go away, we have a great time. Yeah, the market has had a great couple of weeks. It obviously just opened twenty minutes ago. The Fin said it was going to take a bit of a hit today, but in the last couple of weeks it’s just been going gangbusters. Let’s start with maybe a portfolio update. The dummy portfolio since inception — which for new listeners is the Second of September 2019, when we’ve fully invested our original $20,000 in capital in the dummy portfolio — it’s up 18.09% per annum over that period, which is pretty much right where it should be.

Tony  12:05

Yeah, that’s right.

Cameron  12:06

Versus the benchmark, which is the SPDR 200, code STW, which is up 7.67% per annum over the same period. So, kind of doing two and a half times the index, which is nice. For the financial year — which is what, a couple of months away from closing — dummy portfolio’s up 11%, 11.03 per annum. Actually no, 13.94 per annum. Navexa gives me two numbers: one on the chart, one on the result. The results say 13.94% per annum, versus the STW up 17.76 per annum for the financial year. So, again, we’re not doing as well as the benchmark this financial year, was a tricky one for us. But we’re not that far behind, and we’ve been catching up quite a lot in the last couple of months. And up 14% for the financial year, which still has a few months to go. Not a bad result at all. I’m quite happy with that.

Tony  13:12

Yeah, I am too. And it doesn’t worry me that we’re underperforming the benchmark in the short term. As you say, the long term, that’s the game to watch.

Cameron  13:22

The buy list this week. One of the things to note is that copper is a buy again, which is normally exciting. However, one of our favourite copper stocks that we’ve done very well out of in the past, C6C, Copper Mountain, has announced it’s being acquired pending regulatory approval, etc., etc., by a company called Hudbay. So, I mean, people who own it, congratulations. We don’t, because copper, you know, I guess it was a sell at some point. But it had a big spike in the last couple of days with that announcement. C6C. I think we got a question about what to do if you are an owner of that later on. We’ll get to that in the Q&A section. What else? Max put me on to an Aussie guy called the Chartist on Twitter. You ever heard of the Chartist, Tony?

Tony  14:14

No, I haven’t.

Cameron  14:15

He apparently just uses charting and has a 20% average CAGR as well. Max suggested we invite him onto the show for a chat. I’ll get around to that at some point. But I started following him on Twitter and he’s got this great quote I saw from Phil Jackson, the coach of the Chicago Bulls? Wasn’t he the Chicago Bulls guy, Phil Jackson?

Tony  14:38

I dunno. Sounds familiar, but I’m not sure.

Cameron  14:41

I think that’s where he was. Yes, Chicago Bulls during their, sort of, good years. There’s a quote from him that I really liked, which was, “the most we can hope for is to create the best possible conditions for success, then let go of the outcome.” And I thought yeah, that’s sort of a good definition of QAV. We just create the best possible conditions and then let it play out. Don’t think too much about it.

Tony  15:11

Have a good framework, exactly.

Cameron  15:13

What else? Oh, Buffett gave another great long interview with his favourite journalist at CNBC. CNBC? I think so. Becky. He was on Becky’s Squawk Box show, talking about bank executives. I’ve got clips from the show that I could play, but basically, he was talking about the recent bank collapses over in the US and was reflecting in large part what you’ve been saying, that it’s not the same, really, as it was back in 2008. The investors are okay. Some of the investors in banks are going to take a hit, but he’s talking about how the FDIC is going to cover the investors…

Tony  16:02

The depositors.

Cameron  16:02

Sorry, depositors. And that it’s not costing the government anything, so people don’t understand that and shouldn’t worry. There was this quote, though, he said, “all kinds of trouble was caused by the banks, but bank executives all continue to live fine. They may have lost their job, but they’ve got their pensions. There have got to be consequences for the people who make the decisions. Penalising the shareholders later on by billions of dollars’ worth of fines, that doesn’t deter the bad action.” He said that “some of these CEOs should go back to living like a person that works on the production line of Ford or something like that. They don’t deserve anything special.” But she asked him in the interview whether or not he saw it coming, and he said, “yeah.” He goes, “I read the financial statements of all of these banks.” Obviously, Berkshire have had investments in a lot of banks, and they’ve sold out of a lot of them, I think, not that long ago. He said that he could see all these losses going on in the bank’s financials, and he said something like, “if Berkshire lost $28 billion,” or something, “in a year, we would probably talk a lot about it in our earnings call.” He said but “they were just barely mentioning it,” it was just sort of being blown off in these earnings calls. He said there’s this crazy stuff that they’re doing and crazy thinking. So, anyway, if anyone’s interested in Buffett’s thoughts on what’s going on with the US economy and the banks, check that out. You can see clips of it on YouTube. He’s always interesting.

Tony  17:31

I did see last Monday, I think it was, he did a three-hour interview on Bloomberg from Japan. I didn’t see it; I saw it advertised. Apparently, he’s bullish on Japan. He’s been buying up a lot of Japanese companies recently.

Cameron  17:45

Good stuff. Well, he’s always to listen to. Doesn’t pull his punches. Pulls them a little bit more than Charlie does.

Tony  17:56

Well, he’s dead right, about the banks, though, or any company really. The CEOs get off Scot free. It’s just complete moral hazard, especially with this latest round of bank collapses in the states. The government’s just come in and swept up everything, paid the depositors, shareholders get burnt but the CEOs walk away.

Cameron  18:13

It does seem wrong, doesn’t it? But that’s American capitalism, for you.

Tony  18:18

Yeah, Ruddy and I were talking about it tonight at dinner. It is different over here. Like, it’s much more entrepreneurial. But then the markets so big, you can have a lot of success with even a moderate or a small company, really, because there’s just so many people here who needs servicing. It’s, yeah, it’s different to Australia, I think, where your market is much more limited.

Cameron  18:41

Well, that’s all I’ve got to talk about. You got any news you want to get into?

Tony  18:46

No, not at all. Like I said, I’ve been turned off from the markets for a couple of weeks now. I’m playing golf. It’s been lovely.

Cameron  18:52

Good. But you do have a pulled pork to do, I believe?

Tony  18:55

Yeah, I’ll do a pulled pork. Someone asked the question for a pulled pork on Mineral Resources, which I’ll do. It’s not a company I follow. I mean, I’ve certainly watched it over the years because it’s been an exciting growth stock in the mining sector, but it’s not on our buy list. I’ll say that from the outset. It started off, basically, as a service company to the mining industry. It was crushing rock, and they still do a lot of rock crushing. Basically, I guess that’s part of the process, I think, particularly with iron ore, to get things ready to be exported and to extract some of the ore from the rest of the rock that they mine. The company now, Mineral Resources, has expanded into other areas. It’s now an iron ore miner of its of its own, and it’s now getting into lithium mining and has some joint ventures in that space, and also gas exploration. And they’re currently trying to take over a company called Norwest Energy, which has a presence in the gas space. So, what started off as a relatively small mining services company has grown fast over the last, I dunno, fifteen-twenty years, I guess, that I’ve been aware of it. And it has an owner founder by the name of Chris Ellison, and he’s certainly very entrepreneurial and dynamic, and has been driving growth in the company. And it’s growing fast. I mean, revenue in the last four months is up 74% year on year. So, certainly has a high growth profile. But that’s one of the reasons why it’s not only our buy list. You know, right off the bat, the Pr/OpCaf for this company is twenty-two times cash flow. So, you know, we’re looking for companies less than seven times cash flow, so you’re certainly paying for the growth that you’re getting in this case. So, to run through the numbers: it’s a large stock, ADT is $68 million, I’m doing an analysis on the share price of $79.13. I think it’s a little bit higher than that now, this is a day or two old. But $79 is still less the consensus target, but it’s well above our IV 1 and slightly above IV 2. It does pay a dividend but the yields 2.78%, so we’re not going to score it for that. Stock Doctor financial health is strong and steady, so it gets marks for that. And certainly, it’s a well-managed company. Net equity per share, however, is $18.25, so share price being up around $80 bucks, it’s well above its book value and book value plus 30. So, from a valuation side of things, we’re never going to look at this. This is a growth company and people are paying for that. Forecast earnings per share growth is 76%. So, even though it’s grown by that kind of number in the last twelve months, it’s forecast to keep growing by that kind of number. So, you know, it’s doubling every two years based on its current trajectory. So, it’s certainly, certainly growing. Growth over PE we score two for, it’s 3.73, and our hurdle is 1.5. So, even though it’s growing fast, even though it has a high PE, the growth is certainly still, I guess, making it attractive on that metric. And the PE is 20.6 times, so it’s quite high, and it’s not the lowest in the last three years. So, we can’t even score it for being the lowest PE for the last six halves. Equity has been increasing, but not consistently, so we give it a zero. There was a period when it did fall backwards, and that’s not surprising for a company like this; they are taking on debt to fund their growth, not just from cash flow, although lots is funded from cash flow. So, all in all, the quality score for this one is 64% but the QAV score is only 0.03, and its scores low for us based on the valuation side, I think. And this is a classic gross stock. I mean, it’s got the same, sort of, profile in terms of its price as an Internet stock does, or Afterpay did last year. So, its priced to perfection, and that’s the issue I have with a company like this. And I think it’s been caught up in the lithium mining boom as well, which is about a quarter of its business now and it’s certainly one of the areas which has sparked interest with people. Again, whether that continues or not, I don’t know, but you’re paying as if it will continue to grow based on a twenty times PE and twenty-two times cash flow that you’re paying for at the moment. It’ll take you a long time to get your money back, especially if that growth profile slips, and that’s one of the issues I have with buying these growth stocks. They’re great when everything works but doesn’t take much to knock a company off a growth path. If interest rates keep rising, or suddenly hydrogen powered cars become more popular than electric powered cars, than lithium might not be as valuable. All those kinds of things get thrown curveballs when they’re priced to perfection. So, that’s one of the issues that I have with these kinds of growth stocks. But certainly, in the last twelve months and projected for the next twelve months, it’s going to double in size. So, good luck to them.

Cameron  23:54

Thanks for that. One of the things that I plan on using AI to do in the next couple of months is try and figure out a QAV style model for growth stocks.

Tony  24:04

Yeah, right.

Cameron  24:06

See if it can come up with something that checks all of our boxes.

Tony  24:11

Yeah, well, I hope so, because the companies themselves are attractive when they’re growing. The problem is the price you have to pay for them. You’re buying future earnings a long way down the track and if they don’t get there, the share price’s come tumbling down. You’ve done your day.

Cameron  24:24

We’ve talked a lot over the years about figuring out a valuation model that makes sense to you for these sorts of stocks, and you’ve had a couple of attempts at trying to figure out how do you get in, and then when do you get out, and what kind of rules do you set around it? And we’ve never heard anything that made sense on the surface. But maybe AI can work it out for us.

Tony  24:49

Yeah, but for me it makes sense on the way up. Like, you always get drawn to it, because these growth stocks can do really, really well for two, three, up to five years, but it’s the crash when they go up the stairs and down the elevator. And it’s that last crash which can destroy a lot of value.

Cameron  25:09

And it’s knowing when to get out. What are the metrics for when to get out. Because like everything else, they don’t go in a straight line up: they go up, they go down, they go up again, they go down again, they go up again. All right, thanks, TK. That was a question from Neil, who asked for the MIN pulled pork. So, hope you enjoyed that, Neil. Next question is from John. “Wondering if TK could do a pull pork on the next new buy that comes into the buy list with an ADT over 100k. The higher up the list, the better.” Well, according to our buy list for this week, that would be the NAB, Tony.

Tony  25:46

Okay. Well, I can do a pulled pork on NAB for sure.

Cameron  25:49

It’s not very high. Like, it’s come in, sort of, around thirty-four. Obviously, it has a big ADT, about, what is it? $131 million, billion? $131 million, I think. The next one is STO, Santos, back on the buy list, but crude oil is a sell. No, crude oil is a buy, LNGs a sell. And according to my chart, Santos has more LNG than crude oil.

Tony  26:18

It does, definitely.

Cameron  26:20

Right. So, it’s not really a buy for us at the moment. So, maybe NAB is one to look at next week.

Tony  26:26

Yeah, I think the banks are interesting at the moment. They should be, and they are, making money while interest rates are rising because they’re passing on the deposit rate rises slower than they’re passing on the mortgage rate rises. But I think there’s a lot of sentiment out there against them, because there’s still this theory that we might go into a recession in the future, and that’ll hurt the banks.

Cameron  26:48

It’s getting a lot of media attention over here at the moment. I think on the front page of the Fin today, or at least online, some economists are saying the RBA doesn’t know what they’re doing and we’re going into a recession and etc., etc., etc.

Tony  27:03

I think the RBA met just after I left and decided not to increase interest rates for at least another month. He’s probably playing for his job now, so might finally be heeding the calls to not raise rates so quickly.

Cameron  27:17

Yeah, we’ll see what happens. All right. Next question is from Sue. She says, “I have my very first share position being bought out with the news about the copper mining purchase offer of Hudbay materials. Wondering where these situations sit with QAV subject to approval, which reads very, very likely. I understand that I get 0.0381 of a Hudbay share per copper share. I can’t see Hudbay on the Australian exchange, so I’m assuming we get NYSC shares. Tony has mentioned he prefers to stick with Aus shares. Would Tony ever entertain keeping international shares when they buy an Australian company? If so, would Tony base this decision on its QAV score?” I think we have talked about these sorts of scenarios in the past, but I can’t remember exactly what you said. Would you mind going over it again for us, how you would play this?

Tony  28:09

Yeah, sure. So, I think we had another mining company, a gold mining company, I think SR mining from memory. In this particular case, no, I’d be selling it on market now that the bids happening. I don’t think another bidder will come out to try and buy Copper Mountain because this is a scheme of arrangement, which basically means the board’s agreed to merge the companies. They go before a judge and get their approval. I think it needs to go into a shareholder vote, and then it goes for the regulatory approvals as well of the country involved. I don’t know the situation intimately, but it is an overseas company. With a name like Hudbay, I’d say it’s a Canadian miner, and I think C6C had its mine in Canada. Hudbay would be short for Hudson Bay, which is the big bay in the north, in the middle of Canada, where it all began with the fur trappers and all the rest of it. A big part of Canadian history. And no, I wouldn’t want to hold an overseas stock necessarily. Apart from the fact that you’ll have currency issues with the share price movements over there when it does come time to buy or sell, you will need to take that into account. Dividends will also have that sort of extra complexity to them, I guess. But potentially there are taxation issues, and I couldn’t comment on what they would be from Canada to someone in Australia. There are taxation treaties involved, but I know there are also limitations to that. So, you could wind up paying tax twice, although, you know, seek your own advice on that one. But I think the biggest issue for me is that it disappears from any sort of scrutiny in Australia. You’re not going to see articles about it in the press, the financial press. And so, it’s a situation where you’ll be tracking the share price and suddenly see a movement, big movement up or down, and about a month later you’ll get an email from the company saying this or that’s happening. So, you just can’t keep track of what’s happening with the company, really. So, I wouldn’t, I’d be selling on market now and then taking my cash and putting it somewhere else. There’s nothing wrong with holding overseas stocks, but I just find that it’s just that extra difficulty and complexity with tracking it and dealing with currency and tax issues.

Cameron  30:21

A level of complexity that you don’t need in your life.