Transcript QAV 359

File: QAV 359 – Cameron Williams

Dura­tion: 54:26

Cameron Reil­ly: 00:04
Wel­come back to QAV or if it’s your first time. Wel­come to the QAV pod­casts. Now, this is a pod­cast where we talk about invest­ing, but occa­sion­al­ly we have guests on, well, actu­al­ly almost every week we have a guest on one of our episodes. This week, our guest is Cameron Williams, sports edi­tor on chan­nel nine, today’s show, and the six o’clock news. Cam’s been a lis­ten­er of the show for the last twelve months and we have decid­ed to have him on, but before we get into invest­ing with Cam, of course, because he is who he is. We’re going to talk about a lit­tle bit of sport. So, if you’re not inter­est­ed in the sports, skip for­ward ten min­utes and get into the invest­ing side of things. But if you’re inter­est­ed in what it means to be the sports edi­tor at chan­nel nine, or to hear us talk about the recent Mike Tyson fight or the time that Cam met Mike Tyson, and Muhammed Ali, then you might want to lis­ten to the whole thing. Here it is, Cameron Williams.

Cameron Williams: 00:57
G’day mate. Can you hear me?

Tony Kynas­ton: 00:58
I can.

Cameron Williams: 00:59
Good. Oh, well, I’m well. Hi TK

Tony Kynas­ton: 01:03
Hi.

Cameron Williams: 01:04
Hel­lo.

Tony Kynas­ton: 01:04
Hi Cameron. How are you?

Cameron Williams: 01:06 

I’m real­ly well mate, have you been enjoy­ing the punt late­ly?

Tony Kynas­ton: 01:10 

Well, I’m enjoy­ing it, it’s not very prof­itable but it’s still fun.

Cameron Williams: 01:14 

Look, I backed 3‑ude on Sat­ur­day, it said, and still lost on the day so…

Tony Kynas­ton: 01:21 

I had a sim­i­lar one like that grand view ter­race at ten to one and still lost about a hun­dred bucks on it.

Cameron Reil­ly: 01:27 

And I have no idea what either of you are talk­ing about but I did in prepa­ra­tion and research for this. Get up ear­ly this morn­ing and watch the Tyson fight. I thought that’s what we’d be talk­ing about.

Cameron Williams: 01:40 

Yeah. Oh, did you record it? It was on yes­ter­day. Yeah.

Cameron Reil­ly: 01:42 

I watched the rec… I watched the YouTube.

Cameron Williams: 01:44 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, look uh, what did you think?

Cameron Reil­ly: 01:47 

I’m glad it was­n’t me in the ring with Tyson that’s all I mean. He might be fifty-four and

slow but, Jesus, when he threw punch­es, I felt it, man, just even watch­ing it.

Cameron Williams: 01:59 

Both of them have still got some hand speed and, you know, clear­ly no invest. No inter­est in hurt­ing each oth­er

Cameron Reil­ly: 02:06 

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cameron Williams: 02:09 

Right, yeah. You might google some street stuff of Tyson shad­ow­box­ing for fans. It’s awe­some­ly scary, awe­some­ly scary.

Cameron Reil­ly: 02:19 

Man, like even the speed I expect­ed him to punch hard but a few times even in like round three or four he just came out a few times and there was just this flur­ry of fists going and I was like, holy shit, that’s ter­ri­fy­ing.

Cameron Williams: 02:33 

Yes. Yeah, well, I had the great for­tune of going to cov­er his uni­fi­ca­tion fights, and I met Muham­mad Ali which was like the biggest in my life at that time and still is the only auto­graph I’ve ever asked for I think but I met a girl there who was the sis­ter of a guy spar­ring with Tyson and she got me up into his room at the MGM and I had an inter­view that went kind of around the world with him where he said for the first time, I’m sure he said it since that he used to…because, you know, “class does­n’t treat me like a per­son

and you know that I’m only 19″ and he said “you’re so young how did you get this job”. I’m sound­ing more like Michael Jack­son. But he had this strange lisp and he sound­ed so young, you know, he was nine­teen but he admit­ted that and then that he pulls on a ski

mask and goes down to Brownsville and mugs peo­ple because it make him feel cen­tered. So, he was a heavy­weight cham­pi­on of the world say­ing that he goes back home and mugs peo­ple and anony­mous­ly just because that feels nor­mal.

Cameron Reil­ly: 03:46 

Holy shit. So, when was that?

Cameron Williams: 03:48 

That was 1987. March of 1987.

Cameron Reil­ly: 03:53 

Holy shit. How old were you?

Cameron Williams: 03:55 

Uh, 24. 

Cameron Reil­ly: 03:57 

Wow, that must have been mind-blow­ing.

Cameron Williams: 04:01  

Oh, it real­ly was. It real­ly was and to see that the Clos­et­ed world that they live in and, you know, I’ve seen oth­er exam­ples of it since but I’d nev­er been to Amer­i­ca before so I had­n’t seen all of these great stars and the way they’re treat­ed but he was just the fat pig that they kept feed­ing, nur­tur­ing, pro­tect­ing, guard­ing. It was…it’s no way to live and it’s…

Cameron Reil­ly: 04:26 

Real­ly?

Cameron Williams: 04:27 

It’s fun­ny. He keeps say­ing he feels like he’s lucky to be alive. I think he was com­plete­ly depressed through most of his life, yeah.

Cameron Reil­ly: 04:35 

And you got to meet Ali, you said?

Cameron Williams: 04:36 

Yes, I did. He…it was such a great trip because Croc­o­dile Dundee was pret­ty fresh in peo­ple’s minds over there and a fel­low heard me check­ing in at the hotel and he had the big Stet­son on and the full cow­boy, you know, rhine­stone cow­boy, Glenn Camp­bell looks and he had a framed signed Muham­mad Ali pho­to­graph with gloves and stuff that went with it and he said, “would you want to make some mon­ey?” You know, I’m imme­di­ate­ly sus­pi­cious. He said, “look, just talk to me the way you talk nor­mal­ly”. So, of course, I was bang­ing on a real Aus­tralian accent mate. A bit of rhyming slang nev­er did any­body any harm and we just had this con­ver­sa­tion peo­ple gath­ered round and he sold that thing for over twelve thou­sand U.S. in about ten min­utes with a big crowd around us. Just some­one came in and paid cash for it. So, he slung me a cou­ple of hun­dred bucks

and you know that was the start of it all, that’s when I met this girl called Desir­ae who was Tyson spar­ring part­ner’s sis­ter.

Cameron Reil­ly:

I’m glad I’m not the only one who does that when­ev­er I go over to the U.S. to hang out with Chris­sy’s fam­i­ly. I’m always putting it on like that mate, yeah. The vac­cine gets really…she goes “oh, will you just stop that, you’re embar­rass­ing me.” Oh no, they love it over here.

Cameron Williams: 05:52 

Well, they do, they do. I don’t think it car­ries as much cachets as it used to be but hoax did us all a favor for about ten years.

Cameron Reil­ly: 05:59 

Yeah. Well, I scored an Amer­i­can wife out of it. So, I’m grate­ful.

Cameron Williams: 06:03 

Yeah, I know she prob­a­bly thinks you’re some fron­tiers­man still. 

Cameron Reil­ly: 06:08 

Still. Yeah, yeah, I’m just…I’m get­ting back into it one of these days

Tony Kynas­ton: 06:11 

Well, we went to we’re in Amer­i­ca around that same time and peo­ple would walk up and say “God hi”.

Cameron Williams: 06:15 

Yeah.

Tony Kynas­ton: 06:16 

Par­don? What? Talk­ing to me?

Cameron Williams: 06:22 

Good hi mate.

Tony Kynas­ton: 06:23 

Good hi mate.

Cameron Reil­ly: 06:25 

Well wel­come to the QUV show. Cameron Williams, how is your Mon­day morn­ing been going? You’re back at home already. You’ve done your stint for the day or do you have to go back in?

Cameron Williams: 06:37 

No, I have to go back in and the last hour or so has left me a bit sweaty because I could­n’t find our damned, what’s it called, the elf on a shelf which you don’t have for young enough

kids but the elf on the shelf reap­pears on the first of Decem­ber every year and then dis­ap­pears after Christ­mas and he’s in a dif­fer­ent posi­tion every time, that they wake up the kids wake up and I thought I’d lost cook­ie the elf on the shelf, I found it.

Cameron Reil­ly: 07:09 

But it was found. Oh, that’s good. 

Cameron Williams: 07:10 

Christ­mas is not here.

Cameron Reil­ly: 07:12 

Thought you were talk­ing about the VHS of the Will Fer­rell film or some­thing. So, why don’t we like…we’ll get into invest­ing in mon­ey stuff but let’s give peo­ple your back­ground sto­ry because most peo­ple prob­a­bly haven’t heard it, I sus­pect. You grew up not far from where I grew up, right? Coun­try Queens­land.

Cameron Williams: 07:36 

That’s exact­ly right. Emer­ald in Cen­tral Queens­land which these days is an orchard­ing area

because they’ve got a very big dam there and a reg­u­lar wall.

Cameron Reil­ly: 07:46 

Wow, right.

Cameron Williams: 07:47 

But my father was there build­ing that. He was an engi­neer on the road­works and the bridges approach­ing Fair­burn dam, as it was called then and I, you know, I guess, I’m a prod­uct of that kind of kind of youth. I like hors­es, I like out­doors, and I moved not long after I was born to Rock­hamp­ton which is just anoth­er big cen­tral, quite big­ger cen­tral Queens­land Town, and there I dis­cov­ered the coast and swim­ming and stuff like that. But I always grad­u­at­ed towards com­mu­ni­ca­tion type stud­ies and com­mu­ni­ca­tion type areas of

my life, I have devel­oped in a busi­ness sense Because I start­ed at the career mile as a cadet, writ­ing for them and quick­ly real­ized that I want­ed to write about sport that led to a job at the Aus­tralian in Mel­bourne that led to tele­vi­sion jobs in Syd­ney pre­dom­i­nant­ly and now I’m the sports edi­tor at chan­nel nine. We’ve just com­plet­ed a big move from the orig­i­nal home of tv in Aus­tralia Nine­teen Fifty-Six was in Willough­by and we’ve just left those Willough­by stu­dios behind which is a bit sad but we’re now to brand new digs in one Deni­son Street, North Syd­ney and that’s got its teething prob­lems but it’s a great build­ing and we’re enjoy­ing being there.

Tony Kynaston09:08 

Wow. Yeah. I’ve been to the Lib­er­ty Stu­dios and to Emer­ald I was work­ing there in the nineties, I think we were into…I was there try­ing to help our fuel dis­trib­u­tor. I was work­ing for Shell and it was year four of a five-year drought. So, I hope the Fair­burn dam has turned things around because it was tough mak­ing mon­ey in the tail end of a drought after four

years.

Cameron Williams: 09:32 

When it gets dry out there, Tony it gets just real­ly dry and the riv­er that goes through town is called the Nagoa and it’s main­ly usu­al­ly a no-goa because it’s often very dry and the Shell in town in Emer­ald in, you know, in the six­ties I was born in Nine­teen Six­ty-Three. There was a guy called Georgie Paul and I’ll nev­er for­get him because he had a thumb ampu­tat­ed in a machin­ery acci­dent but my mum and dad told me that he sucked his thumb when he was a boy, so, shell and, you know, what do you call it, I guess, the Ter­rence for chil­dren are inter­linked for me. So, nice pound though our phone num­ber out

there was three-six‑O. So, full place but it was a great place to grow up, lots of space you could have a horse, you could have, you know, keep birds and things and peo­ple were good. You could go to any­one’s door; it was a great place to grow up.

Cameron Reil­ly: 10:34 

You still got fam­i­ly there?

Cameron Williams: 10:36 

No. No, we all moved. My mum we moved to Rock­hamp­ton first of all and then to Bris­bane and my dad died this time last year but my mum is still in Bris­bane and she’s got a love­ly house in Kan­ga­roo Point on the riv­er there and she’s really…she’s the start of my

invest­ment career because right from the first time I earned a dol­lar she said you’ve got to

start invest­ing this in prop­er­ty and I’ve always been a bit of a share naysay­er up until recent­ly and Tony you’re the bloke who con­vinced me oth­er­wise and I’ve always treat­ed my prop­er­ty invest­ments as invest­ments and the share mar­ket as a kind of gam­bling den and it’s only now that I’ve real­ized how much eas­i­er it is to keep your­self

orga­nized in the share mar­ket and man­age your port­fo­lio of shares and still get growth and div­i­dends. It’s just that, you know, do what you trust. I trust­ed bricks and mor­tar

and, you know, it’s done rea­son­ably well for me but I’ve got rid of some of those invest­ments to go heav­i­ly into the share mar­ket these days.

Tony Kynas­ton: 11:39 

Yeah, good for you. It’s…but it’s a good per­spec­tive to bring to share mar­ket invest­ing, I think. If you’ve had that prop­er­ty expe­ri­ence because, as you know, you can’t check the price of the house every day, you can’t sell it tomor­row if you don’t like it. you can’t buy it back the day after so that’s a good, I think that’s a good, real­ly good train­ing ground and per­spec­tive to bring to the share mar­ket too.

Cameron Williams: 11:59 

Yes, and there’s lots of traps and pit­falls and it’s more dif­fi­cult to man­age at arm’s length than you might expect. You know, I don’t regret any of it because over time, you know, if you’re patient in the prop­er­ty mar­ket and you’re not, you know, buy­ing sil­ly invest­ments like at Rabi­na at the Gold Coast where I did­n’t do buy one place but gen­er­al­ly, they’ve been, you know, slow pro­duc­ers and I guess it’s been my first method of sav­ing. I’ve always been a bloke who on one hand I do like gam­bling on the hors­es like you do. I’ve got a gam­bling streak but I like to know that I own the bricks that I live in. I’d rather have the bricks than the fur­ni­ture and, you know, I did sleep on the floor a lot as a young work­er but there’s noth­ing wrong with that. Rewards lat­er. You don’t think you’ll ever get old when you start out but it hap­pens soon enough.

Tony Kynas­ton: 12:55 

Yeah, yeah. I’m the same. You know, we owned an invest­ment prop­er­ty with a mate to start off with and I remem­ber going in there after work com­plete­ly bug­gered putting up tres­tles paint­ing the inside of the house until one or two in the morn­ing. Pack­ing it all up again and going back to the bed for a few hours on the floor and then going into work. So, yes, I can relate to that. 

Cameron Williams: 13:16 

Yes, it’s hard work but good train­ing, good train­ing and you know, I cer­tain­ly had no spe­cif­ic skills that I, you know, I was­n’t always going to be a doc­tor or a pilot or a

brick­lay­er. I did­n’t have any spe­cif­ic train­ing. So, I always knew that I was going to

have to be care­ful ear­ly on with what­ev­er mon­ey I had and it’s been pro­duc­tive. So, you know, I love that about your method that day that you explained com­pound­ing inter­est

and the sav­ings that you can make by going to a pub­lic school rather than a pri­vate school. It cement­ed my belief that QAV and your way to go is the way to go.

I’ve told this to Cam­bo already but my pri­ma­ry dri­ver for being involved with you guys is to, is that, so that I can teach the method to my chil­dren and to man­age what wealth I’ve

got in an easy fair­ly as hands-on as you want it to be but it’s a low-risk low input method of mak­ing sure that you’re get­ting a good return for your sav­ings or your invest­ments and, you know, I got lucky a year or so ago. Can I tell you a quick invest­ing sto­ry?

Cameron Reil­ly & Tony Kynas­ton: 14:29 

Please.

Cameron Williams: 14:30 

I over… I over­heard a con­ver­sa­tion on a plane from Perth to Syd­ney and I heard this fel­low. One of the things that cut through the con­ver­sa­tion because I was try­ing to sleep. He said he’d just sold his gold mine and that he was going to take a year off and trav­el the world and find out what his new invest­ment was going to be and I thought God I’d like to do that. Yes, I’ve just sold my gold boy. Any­way, so, I lis­tened it more care­ful­ly and just got, you know, what­ev­er snatch­es of the con­ver­sa­tion that I could and I noticed that he had a bit of a speech habit of say­ing “new” and stay­ing “new” instead of “knew” but he was an Aus­tralian guy and I thought that was a bit unusu­al I won­der where he picked that up, I thought he must have lived in Amer­i­ca or some­thing. Any­way, must be two years lat­er about twen­ty-ten or twen­ty eleven I heard a guy speak­ing on the radio about Graphite. I had no inter­est in Graphite but he kept say­ing he was an Aus­tralian guy and he kept say­ing “new”. So, I worked out this guy was a fel­low called Mark Thomp­son and then he’d sold a gold mine and he’d trav­eled the world and he decid­ed that he was going to buy at a very cheap price a Graphite resource in Swe­den and to cut the long sto­ry short it’s called Tal­ga Group. They’ve firmed up a very, very high-grade Graphite and Graphene resource. They have part­nered with Oxford Uni­ver­si­ty, Ger­many, Swe­den they’ve got low very…very green low-cost pow­er from Swe­den. They’ve got fac­to­ries being built in Ger­many with Ger­man import and mon­ey. They won the Fara­day chal­lenge and they build the anodes for bat­ter­ies and they own the resource, they own the IP for how to turn that into an anode. They own all of these very high sub­stan­tial­ly dif­fi­cult things to copy. There’s the moat that you talk about and slow­ly the mar­ket’s pick­ing it up. So, I’m in at an aver­age of about twen­ty-sev­en, twen­ty-eight cents

and they’re now up to over two dol­lars, so, this is my Face­book and it’s been a win­ner for me but I haven’t sold any. When I do sell some, Tony, every­thing I’ve got is going to be invest­ed, QAV for­ev­er because that’s the way to stay safe.

Tony Kynas­ton: 16:51 

Yes, well. Yes, that’s real­ly nice to know and good luck with the graph­ing. I know Graphite went through a bit of a boom­ing and a bust prob­a­bly in the last sort of three or four years. There’s lots of new mines com­ing on but it’s turn­ing around a bit now, I think.

Cameron Williams: 17:07 

Yes, and it’s not a Graphite play it’s an anode pro­duc­er.

Tony Kynas­ton: 17:10 

Pride, okay. Yep.

Cameron Williams: 17:10 

They own their own resource and its high qual­i­ty and it requires a lot less input chem­i­cal­ly and in terms of heat to trans­form it into the prod­ucts they need. So, all the big batch man­u­fac­tur­ers like CATL, they spend, you know, hun­dreds and hun­dreds of kilo­watts of ener­gy pro­duc­ing their anode mate­r­i­al. This is green it’s Euro­pean has leg­is­lat­ed sup­ply chains that have to be green. They have to be sourced from Europe. They’re the first mover and real­ly the only ones that are in this posi­tion so far. They’ve had con­nec­tions with we believe with Tes­la and, you know, that’s my punt.

Tony Kynas­ton: 17:55 

Yes, good and…

Cameron Reil­ly: 17:56 

But believe in some­thing.

Tony Kynas­ton: 17:57 

Yes, fol­low­ing a tip, hey. It’s all your own tip, I guess.

Cameron Williams: 18:01 

Yes, well I stum­bled on it myself but because I was very inter­est­ed in him and I know you’re not into the charis­ma of these guys because they are all sales­men but he was

not sell­ing any­thing to any­one he was just speak­ing about what he want­ed to do and he’s a… he obvi­ous­ly had a high-grade brain and I just thought that I’d learn as much

about him and his com­pa­ny as I could and I’ve just kept adding to it.

Tony Kynas­ton: 18:21 

Yes, that’s good. You remind­ed me, Cam, of…just a, … I guess a play that I’ve done before in the past if you can find peo­ple who’ve unsuc­cess­ful­ly out of one mine and

they’ll sell out and they’ll pop up in anoth­er mine and its ear­ly stages and it’ll be cheap

and it’s not it’s worth­while fol­low­ing them. In some, you know, a lot of instances, I mean, for me as for as, that for this year medals that was­n’t his first invest­ment. A guy called Ker­ry Hamide, I think his name was, with a com­pa­ny called Jubilee Mines was a one of one of my best invest­ments in the past and he’s now popped up in some oth­er things. So, yes, it’s, you know, you’re fol­low­ing the mon­ey. These guys are real­ly good at what they do and when they come back it can be a good invest­ment. 

Cameron Reil­ly: 19:04 

Chris Ellison’s anoth­er one with min­er­al resources.

Tony Kynas­ton: 19:06 

Right, yes, yes.

Cameron Williams: 19:08 

But you’re a charis­mat­ic guy.

Tony Kynas­ton: 19:09 

No, no.

Cameron Williams: 19:11 

I went to that din­ner that we had in the cross. The first one and you men­tioned that

Cred­it Corp had, which was tak­ing a bath at the time because of COVID, had done that before and that you had snapped it up before. So, I tucked away a bit of that with­out

with­out apply­ing the QAV prin­ci­ples, just apply­ing that, I believe, in Tony Kynas­ton prin­ci­ple and that’s done well.

Tony Kynas­ton: 19:36 

Yes, it’s been good. I bought some too.

Cameron Williams: 19:39 

Yes.

Tony Kynas­ton: 19:39 

Yes, it’s a good com­pa­ny.

Cameron Reil­ly: 19:40 

Well, that’s great. So, get­ting back to your kids. How old are your kids?

Cameron Williams: 19:43 

Archie is twelve…going on twelve and Remy is eight. So, I haven’t…failed to get them com­plete­ly inter­est­ed in mon­ey and what it…where it comes from and how dif­fi­cult it is to make yet but this is the year that I’ve bought them a lit­tle ETF. Their sav­ings were enough to jus­ti­fy buy­ing an ETF. We decid­ed that we were going to invest in Aasia as an emerg­ing col­lec­tion of nations and there’s an ETF called IEM and they’re up fif­teen per­cent on their mon­ey.

Tony Kynas­ton: 20:22 

Good and they under­stand what that means?

Cameron Williams: 20:25 

No, no. It’s com­plete­ly unre­al to them. It’s just num­bers it does­n’t mean any­thing to them but I am start­ing to get them to think of com­pa­nies as busi­ness­es.

Cameron Reil­ly: 20:36 

Yep.

Cameron Williams: 20:37 

And to tell me why they like prod­ucts, you know, they like apple prod­ucts. They like the iPad that they play with and what do you like about it and what don’t you like about oth­er iPads and would you buy from this com­pa­ny and not that com­pa­ny. So, they’re start­ing to think about com­pa­nies as liv­ing organ­isms that you can own a chunk of.

Tony Kynas­ton: 20:58 

Oh, that’s a great way of doing it and your old­est might be get­ting close to job employ­ment age too which is anoth­er big step, I think. Get them a job?

Cameron Williams: 21:08 

Yes, look at…

Tony Kynas­ton: 21:09 

The val­ue for mon­ey.

Cameron Williams: 21:10 

Yes, you know, that kind of McDon­ald’s expe­ri­ence I think is invalu­able, and you know, it’s just inter­est­ing I think that… I think Cam you’ve been very suc­cess­ful in bring­ing out the entre­pre­neur in your kids and it’s just a mat­ter of, you know because young kids come to me all the time say how can I get into you know a posi­tion in tele­vi­sion where’s it all going and the hon­est answer is I… it’s chang­ing very quick­ly. I don’t know where it’s all going but I just tell them if you’ve got a belief in, you know, being able to com­mu­ni­cate you’ll always be employed. But I, you know, my trou­ble is I can’t imag­ine

where that next thing is or I’d go and do it but these kids that if you teach them that being the inno­va­tor and being the ideas mak­er is…I think that’s more inter­est­ing than going down the tra­di­tion­al “I’m going to be a lawyer”, “I’m going to be a den­tist”.

I’m going to make things hap­pen. I think is a great Germ to try and instill in the kids and I’m hop­ing that they’re get­ting some of that

Tony Kynas­ton: 22:12 

I remem­ber when my daugh­ter was a senior in Toron­to and I’d check to her friends and occa­sion­al­ly the class and talk about what they were going to do and they sort of want­ed to go to uni­ver­si­ty, did­n’t know what they want­ed to do, you know, fol­low­ing in their parent’s foot­steps et cetera, et cetera. And I said well, you know, why don’t you think about bypass­ing uni­ver­si­ty get a good idea and start up some­thing and, you know, you’ve got enough rich friends here that can invest it with you and pass on, you know, their knowl­edge to you and that was kind of like mind-blow­ing for most of the kids. No

one did it but I think that’s…I think you’re right. That’s got to be installed into the kids

some­how get out there hus­tling.

Cameron Williams: 22:47 

Yes. The life, you know, the way that we’re going to live and the way we’re going to make our mon­ey in the future I think is chang­ing pret­ty rapid­ly. There’ll be some con­stants but I think peo­ple who are adept and don’t get locked into that “I’ve got to

work for this com­pa­ny for the rest of my life”, men­tal­i­ty. You’re going to be doing bet­ter.

Tony Kynas­ton: 23:08 

Yes, I mean it’s dif­fer­ent these days. I think they’re see­ing with low-inter­est rates maybe but there seems to be a lot more mon­ey out there for peo­ple start­ing up ven­tures, just in

gen­er­al. That’s my sort of, you know, sort of sta­tis­ti­cal analy­sis involv­ing a sam­ple of one but also to, I think, if I look back on my career, I mean I when I was at UNI, I was hold­ing down five part-time jobs just hus­tling from one thing to the next try­ing to make mon­ey and even though I worked cor­po­rate for a long time it was you know I had four or five offers on the go and nego­ti­at­ed. Put one up against the oth­er all the time until I got a good deal and, so yes, those kinds of skills I think need to some­how get taught the kids at a young age hus­tle and nego­ti­ate.

Cameron Williams: 23:52 

Yep. I agree. And I don’t think the edu­ca­tion sys­tem is real­ly set up for that so it comes from par­ents or friends and fam­i­ly you know, I think the only thing I’ve done for my boys is they’ve seen me out there hav­ing a go, fail­ing most of the time but out there hav­ing a crack and you know I think they both went well if dad can do it then we can prob­a­bly do it bet­ter because he’s an idiot and we’re a lot smarter than he is.

Cameron Reil­ly: 24:23 

But of course, the exam­ple you give Cameron is that you show that if you put the work in you get the results. You’ve got to find some­thing that you’re pre­pared to work at, you know.

Cameron Williams: 24:34 

In fact, I show that the oppo­site that you can work your ass off and still not get any results but the work is there, the work’s there. I’ve been admir­ing your Insta­gram pho­tographs late­ly I fig­ured this was your new career tra­jec­to­ry. You’re set­ting your­self up as a behind the scenes pho­tog­ra­ph­er very artis­tic you’re behind the scenes stuff at the show.

Cameron Reil­ly: 24:56 

Oh, thank you mate. I’m look­ing I’m just a hob­by­ist. I thought that it was worth record­ing some of the final moments over at Willough­by and you know some great char­ac­ters have been through that build­ing and a lot of them still work there so I just want­ed to cap­ture some of the peo­ple that have been there for a long time some of the fresh­er faces as well and say good­bye to the old asbestos-rid­den joint.

Cameron Williams: 25:22 

But real­ly, I mean, I’ve been there well at least once but it’s what a tv sta­tion should look like. What you think it looks like before you go it’s got a big aer­i­al on top big anten­na broad­cast­ing aer­i­al, you know, the recep­tion’s full of pho­tos of the celebri­ties and you go inside and there’s all these stu­dios that are big and open and they move things around. Yes. It’s your clas­sic old style isn’t. It’s not like you walk into some­where today and it’s a pan­el like a desk with a cou­ple of small cam­eras in front of it.

Cameron Reil­ly: 25:54 

That’s it, there. Okay.

Cameron Williams: 25:55 

Isn’t? Yes, and the cam­eras are robot­ic. Sanders are robot­ic but from there from exter­nal­ly it just looks like any oth­er office block it’s a beau­ti­ful build­ing by the way but it does look like a cor­po­rate block rather than, you know, a fac­to­ry of dreams and mag­ic.

Cameron Reil­ly: 26:13 

Yes, right. Before we get back to invest­ing, I want to talk more about the sports busi­ness I remem­ber when we first had that first din­ner that you were at ear­ly this year. I don’t remem­ber when it was but it was just as the Rona was start­ing to kick in and we were about to go into the first lock­down so it was sort of Feb­ru­ary, March and, you know, I know you were say­ing then well, “Shit, what am I going to do this year if there’s no sport? What’s actu­al­ly what have you end­ed up doing dur­ing the sport lock­down? How have you kept your­self busy?

Cameron Williams: 26:50 

Well, for ten weeks there was no sport any­where in the world oth­er than horse rac­ing. Horse rac­ing did­n’t stop and that’s a great trib­ute to Peter Velandes who has worked mir­a­cles through these tough times.

Cameron Reil­ly: 27:08 

Who’s that?

Cameron Williams: 27:09 

I’m sor­ry Peter Velandes is the chair­man of the Nation­al Rug­by League or the Aus­tralian Rug­by League Com­mis­sion. He’s also the boss of Rac­ing New South Wales and he’s a can-do kind of guy and, you know, he can be a bit abrupt but he’s very clever. Very, very clever and very deter­mined. He kept horse rac­ing going he just took the steps that had to be tak­en put the jock­eys in a bub­ble, he iso­lat­ed, he kept you know all the right peo­ple year gear around, he kicked all the pun­ters off course and he just ran it in a bub­ble and then he ran rug­by league in a bub­ble when they said they could­n’t do it and by the end of well not by the end of it but with­in a few weeks the NFL was ring­ing him and say­ing, “Peter how did you do this?” And, you know, they’ve been less suc­cess­ful because they can’t keep their two hun­dred-mil­lion-dol­lar play­ers in bub­bles they just won’t do it. Where­as we were more I think dis­ci­plined at real­iz­ing that we need­ed a team approach to keep things going. But for ten weeks we had very lit­tle stuff to talk about except when will rug­by league be back, when will you know all of the oth­er sports the IFL, the ten­nis, the crick­et. When will they all be back? And for ten weeks thank­ful­ly we made it inter­est­ing and what we did find was one of the ben­e­fits was because peo­ple were accept­ing low­er qual­i­ty video out­put like the Zoom meet­ing, we’re on and we could just quick­ly speak to, you know, a man­ly or a bulldog’s foot­ball play­er and because they were at home instead of in front of their team­mates, they often gave us more in-depth answers and more con­sid­ered answers and we saw a more emo­tion­al and more sen­si­tive side of their respons­es. So, I think that part of it was real­ly ben­e­fi­cial but

it’s become a lot eas­i­er now that we’ve got real sport to talk about.

Tony Kynas­ton: 29:00 

I heard some­one who worked for Peter Velande’s inter­view and they said, you know, how did he do it, how did he get rac­ing to con­tin­ue and how did he get the NRL to con­tin­ue, bla­tant­ly. And this per­son said well Peter always starts from the point of view of what the suc­cess looks like and then that you work back from there and I think that’s a real­ly, real­ly good life per­spec­tive if you’re in busi­ness. In any sort of endeav­or real­ly what does suc­cess look like?

Cameron Williams: 29:25 

Yes.

Tony Kynas­ton: 29:26 

Define that and then work back from there.

Cameron Williams: 29:27 

And he’s fear­less. He may have fears but he nev­er exhibits them and you know what I think he’s quick to adapt to when he knows he’s wrong he will acknowl­edge that he’ll give you your point and then then he’ll work with that. He’s not just a crash through type of guy because those guys even­tu­al­ly hit a wall that they can’t break.

Tony Kynas­ton: 29:46 

And no one will work for them either.

Cameron Williams: 29:47 

That’s right, that’s right. 

Cameron Reil­ly: 29:50 

You know, I found the whole Zoom inter­view thing with the late-night shows where they’ve been inter­view­ing celebri­ties just at home actu­al­ly far more inter­est­ing and engag­ing it’s less fake seems to be more real I actu­al­ly won­der how that’s going to change things mov­ing for­wards as they I mean I think the U.S. is a long way from get­ting back to nor­mal but they are back in the stu­dio I think some of them but, how do you think it’s going to have like in terms of long-term impact for what you do. Has there been any pos­i­tives come out of this that will change how you approach your job next year?

Cameron Williams: 30:30 

Look, I think the major ben­e­fit is that peo­ple are more accept­ing of low­er qual­i­ty mate­r­i­al in terms of, you know, tech­ni­cal low­er qual­i­ty mate­r­i­al that’s a good thing because it makes us very flex­i­ble means that we don’t have to spend as much mon­ey as we used to get stuff done but you know when it comes to actu­al broad­cast­ing of live sports you want that in your four‑k HD, you know, you want the best expe­ri­ence you can for that. So, I think all those advances…advancements are going to keep going but I think it’s still a lit­tle too ear­ly to tell if Zoom is going to be the…be all and end all into the future because I don’t real­ly buy into this emp­ty city sort of phi­los­o­phy that peo­ple won’t want to come back into town and they’ll all do their work from home I think that’ll dri­ve most peo­ple nuts even­tu­al­ly. If you’re a soli­tary per­son or com­fort­able in your own, you know, qui­et envi­ron­ment that works bril­liant­ly for you but I think a lot of peo­ple are more hurt ani­mal, more gre­gar­i­ous, they need the excite­ment, you know, we’ve just moved into an open plan office which I was dread­ing not because I want­ed my pri­va­cy so much but I just did­n’t want to hear what every­one else was say­ing or their con­ver­sa­tions and stuff but I found it to be so much more social and fun than I thought it’s ener­giz­ing to be in those spaces. But you do need a hidey-hole every now and then and so I think, you know, once again sam­ple of one, Tony, I think that you know, maybe the cities won’t be as busy, the office blocks won’t be as busy as before they might be repur­posed in some way but I think peo­ple will still want to come back and rub shoul­ders when they can, when it’s safe and they feel com­fort­able again.

Cameron Reil­ly: 32:15 

I was hop­ing you were going to tell me that our big plan for you and Tony in an apol­lo tourism van dri­ving around the coun­try was the next step in the pro­gres­sion.

Cameron Williams: 32:25 

Mate you keep that’s an heir shirt for you and for every­body look­ing apol­lo. I did make a list of shares that I’ve been in and out of since I dis­cov­ered QAV and CIA’s at the top that’s a suc­cess sto­ry.

Cameron Reil­ly: 32:40 

Yes. that’s good.

Cameron Williams: 32:41 

But apol­lo was the next one that I got and, you know I stopped going in and out in and out i just stayed in it too long and but you know what it’s com­ing back I believe in apol­lo #[Laugh­ter]#. 

Cameron Reil­ly: 32:55 

You’re the only one who does. #Laugh­ter#

Tony Kynas­ton: 32:58 

I was in Syd­ney CBD just before I came onto this call and it to me it seems as busy as it always has been and I, you know, I think there’ll be less peo­ple work­ing in there because I think some peo­ple, you know, have worked out don’t like being at home.

Cameron Williams: 33:15 

Yes. 

Tony Kynas­ton: 33:15 

I think human nature plays a part and I think if I was one of ten direct reports and the boss was in the city and two or three of them start­ed to go in to work with the boss and start­ed to get a bit of a leg up because of that the oth­er sev­en would be in there straight away so I think that will kind of dri­ve peo­ple back to the city as well.

Cameron Williams: 33:36 

Yes. And you know when you do your Zoom meet­ings and you’ve got the pan­el up there you can’t see who’s off to the side and what the body lan­guage is. You can’t read the sub­tleties of the room and I think that when you’re mak­ing impor­tant deci­sions about com­pa­nies and about your own careers and you want to be con­vinced that you’ve got a good han­dle on things. I think face-to-face is the way to go.

Tony Kynas­ton:  33:59 

Yes, I agree.

Cameron Reil­ly: 34:00 

So back to invest­ing then Cam, what how did you dis­cov­er QAV can you remem­ber and why what we what were you look­ing for at the time?

Cameron Williams: 34:08 

Okay. Well, every year in Jan­u­ary except next Jan­u­ary I go to the Aus­tralian open and it’s two weeks locked in a hotel room, you know, when I’m in my down­time it’s a time of reflec­tion. I go down the road always stay at the same place. I go down the road and I buy my new undies and t‑shirts for the year. Very inter­est­ing but basi­cal­ly, I do reassess, you know, it’s that peri­od after Christ­mas. I’m by myself, don’t have the kids run­ning around and I do reassess what my tar­gets are for the year so I sit there on my new t‑shirts and undies and this year I got Air pods. So, I need­ed to lis­ten to pod­casts because I had Air Pods and I found a mur­der mys­tery one that was quite good and some­where in the mix there I saw this thing about how to buy shares of qual­i­ty and val­ue and I lis­tened to you. I thought you were kind of acer­bic and fun­ny and you know I’ve changed my mind about that. I thought Tony sound­ed like…I kept wait­ing for Tony to tell me what he want­ed from me because I thought he why…I’m a cyn­i­cal bug­ger thought why is he doing this and as soon as I told my wife about it, she said well what’s he wants what’s he sell­ing? I said hon­est­ly just lis­ten to the guy and you know what the truth that comes out from lis­ten­ing to you guys is pret­ty appar­ent you know I only have to lis­ten to a cou­ple of episodes to real­ize that Tony does­n’t give a rats, if you lis­ten or not; he does­n’t give a rats if you fol­low him or not; and he does­n’t care what he says to peo­ple. I enjoy his inter­views with oth­er peo­ple that are ped­dling var­i­ous prod­ucts or ideas because in essence you boil most of them down and it’s noth­ing. It’s just an idea and they can’t explain their own ideas very fre­quent­ly. Where­as Tony can explain his and I like the sim­plic­i­ty of it and I did believe in it as a kind of, you know, as the ten com­mand­ments but we’ve got about 30 com­mand­ments here. But I like that too it’s flex­i­ble, you know, I could go on and on. I think it’s a very con­vinc­ing way to not just grow wealth but to man­age wealth in a low-risk low-import kind of way.

Cameron Reil­ly: 36:47 

Well, the big take away from me from that is that celebri­ties buy new undies once a year I mean I run mine down until, you know, there’s no threads left in them and they’ve fall­en down and even then, I find it hard to give them up so one day that’s my that’s on my buck­et list now is to buy new undies every year.

Cameron Williams: 37:06 

But I do a lot of live tv so you’ve got to keep your undies, fresh, okay. 

Cameron Reil­ly: 37:15 

Yes, Okay. Yes. that’s good that’s, you know, I think what you what you high­light­ed there is is the big chal­lenge with a lot of this I think when I write when…when I run Face­book adver­tis­ing, pro­mot­ing this it’s always fun for me the num­ber of peo­ple that jump on the Face­book ad and go it’s a crock of shit.  It’s bull­shit and I’m like dude have you even…have you even lis­tened to it before you assume that like. Well, I but I under­stand it because most peo­ple try to ped­dle finan­cial advice out there prob­a­bly are full of shit and yes, it’s how we dif­fer­en­ti­ate.

Cameron Williams: 37:59 

I had a great idea of I don’t know how you go with Face­book and they would be lis­ten­ing so don’t say any­thing nasty but I decid­ed years ago and there is a com­pa­ny called Points­bet that has man­aged to achieve what I set out to achieve I thought that the way into the free­ing up of the Amer­i­can bet­ting mar­ket which from about three or four years ago looked inevitable Ii thought I’m going to I’m going to start up a pod­cast not a pod­cast actu­al­ly but a Face­book page an NFL spoof page, you know, a fun­ny page about NFL char­ac­ters and games and per­son­al­i­ties and once I had you know a mil­lion eye­balls I would sell that infor­ma­tion to an Amer­i­can book­mak­er and take the trail­ing com­mis­sions from that because it’s a very suc­cess­ful mod­el here but too late to get into. So, I thought okay you know the domi­noes start­ed to drop over there as

far as leg­is­la­tion with book­mak­ing was con­cerned sports bet­ting but and we did get quite a few you know, fol­low­ers but at one point Face­book just shut us down because of the whole fake news thing became impor­tant to them and we were clear­ly stat­ing that our news was fake and that it was you know a com­e­dy page it was a spoof. It was stat­ed every­where but they don’t rein­state they don’t lis­ten they, don’t rein­state we tried to set it up with dif­fer­ent cred­it cards and dif­fer­ent, what do you call it, dif­fer­ent IPs and every­thing they knew who we were straight away it’s incred­i­ble.

Cameron Reil­ly: 39:36 

They shut down my Face­book adver­tis­ing for QAV a few months ago sort of lead­ing up to the U.S. elec­tion and the rea­son for it they said was we were ped­dling some­thing that was fraud­u­lent and I respond­ed and appealed and said we’re just adver­tis­ing a pod­cast noth­ing like no, no, no dis­cus­sion, no right of reply it’s just not, you know, they don’t give a shit. It’s frus­trat­ing.

Cameron Williams: 40:05 

There’s got to be a bet­ter Face­book out there because I know they’ve got that incred­i­ble first-mover advan­tage but it’s such a clum­sy thing to use. I hate it, I hate Face­book. I don’t know what you’re pok­ing me and send­ing me reminders. Well to me it’s a fail­ure of cap­i­tal­ism that there has­n’t been a replace­ment. Face­book has been a dis­as­ter in many ways for well over a decade. A lot of peo­ple hate it, a lot of peo­ple com­plain about it. Where’s the com­peti­tor that cap­i­tal­ism is sup­posed to pro­vide us when there’s an oppor­tu­ni­ty for a supe­ri­or ser­vice. It’s just not there because Face­book’s got the things stitched up and I think there’s too many ven­ture cap­i­tal­ists with too much mon­ey tied up in it they don’t want to sup­port their com­pet­i­tive prod­uct.

Tony Kynas­ton & Cameron Reil­ly 40:53:

Yes. 

Cameron Williams: 40:54 

A guy that seems to know. He says that if you spend a cer­tain amount of mon­ey on Face­book adver­tis­ing for your com­pa­ny that you can con­sis­tent­ly make a return of two per­cent or some­thing. So, if you spend, you know, if you spend a hun­dred mil­lion dol­lars on Face­book adver­tis­ing, you’ll get two per­cent of that back as a prof­it because it’s just such a great engine and it just spins off mon­ey well maybe that’s true but it just does­n’t. It’s got noth­ing about it that is use­ful, friend­ly or even just sim­ple and easy to oper­ate. I find the whole thing real­ly headache-induc­ing.

Cameron Reil­ly: 41:36 

That’s just get­ting back to sports report­ing I think the big win­ner out of the Tyson fight was Snoop Dogg. 

Cameron Williams: 41:40 

He still got it hey he was great.

Cameron Reil­ly: 41:43 

He was great I mean you’re going to bring a lit­tle bit of Snoop to your com­men­tary from now on you’re going to smoked up a lit­tle bit before you go on air.

Cameron Williams: 41:51 

I think that would be fan­tas­tic he’s got those menu log things hap­pen­ing, you know, I thought that the fact that he was doing that was a sign that it was all over for the dog but he was great yes­ter­day.

Cameron Reil­ly: 42:08

He was the best thing in the whole deal. I don’t know that it was great for boxing…the whole affair I mean they made a cou­ple of ten mil­lion dol­lars each alleged­ly so they ben­e­fit­ed but I sat through it wait­ing for some­thing to hap­pen. Glimpses of the old guys there I sup­pose there’s mon­ey to be made and putting on these cir­cus shows.

Cameron Williams: 42:26 

Well, I think part of it was the Jake Paul fight for peo­ple who don’t fol­low Jake Paul or fight­ing nei­ther which I fol­low real­ly but my kids are a big Jake Paul not sure fans but they’re aware of him big YouTube star and that seems to be a big thing I think he was fight­ing a for­mer NBA star so this thing about peo­ple mov­ing from social media to box­ing

is becom­ing big and I think that’s the next step for you and I, Tony. We’re going to put on a demon­stra­tion box­ing match you and I. 

Tony Kynas­ton: 42:57 

Hid­ing.

Cameron Williams: 42:58 

Yes, Yes. 

Tony Kynas­ton: 43:01 

You should do it on a park bench.

Cameron Williams: 43:04 

I see…I think I could prob­a­bly take you although you’ve got some height and some reach on me, I think I could prob­a­bly but I’d be too scared to hit you

would be the thing because you’re the also you know you’re the guru so I think you know it’d be inter­est­ing to see how the odds would come down on that one. 

Tony Kynas­ton: 43:21 

Yes. I think you’d prob­a­bly get the odds. 

Cameron Williams: 43:24 

Until they worked out that I don’t actu­al­ly want to hit you.

Cameron Reil­ly: 43:29 

Yes, that’s right. I’ll frame a mar­ket real quick right in Europe. There is a hun­dred to one on to win because you don’t want any­thing to hap­pen to Tony.

Cameron Williams: 43:36 

So, the next time we come to Syd­ney to do well Tony’s in Syd­ney, you’re in Syd­ney. When I come to Syd­ney to do our Syd­ney event instead of din­ner let’s do that, we’ll do a box­ing match and you can com­men­tate, pro­mote it, mar­ket it and we’ll share the tak­ings of three of us.

Cameron Reil­ly: 43:52 

Sure, let’s do that.

Tony Kynas­ton: 43:54 

And one of us will lie down when we know which side of the bet­ting the mon­ey’s for

[Laugh­ter]

Cameron Reil­ly: 44:00 

All right so let’s wrap up with some invest­ing wis­dom from you Cam­bo. What have you learned over the last year or two or in your own invest­ing? Is there any pros or cons that you want to high­light for us?

Cameron Williams: 44:17 

Look my dad was not a big investor but he said ear­ly on you want to become friend­ly with a good accoun­tant and a good lawyer because those are the peo­ple that will help you make good deci­sions through the rest of your life. I’ve man­aged to do that and I think that was excel­lent advice and when I switched accoun­tants you know in my mid-late thir­ties. The qual­i­ty of my advice got even bet­ter and I think that was that you know I think that…thinking you can do every­thing your­self is not clever. I also think that you have to be patient, par­tic­u­lar­ly since you know all of my invest­ments ear­ly on we’re in prop­er­ty and you don’t see quick returns for them you just have to think of it as a slow method of sav­ing which will esca­late accel­er­a­tor as time goes by but when it comes to the share mar­ket I was slow to real­ize the ben­e­fits of the share mar­ket real­ly, real­ly slow and I thank you guys for that because I’ve just lucked on to a cou­ple of shares in my life, I’ve lost a lot of mon­ey just punt­ing on shares and you know those are cap­i­tal loss­es car­ried for­ward so you can pick it up on the hur­dy-gur­dy but I would say the thing is

get good advice; be patient and; you know only trust your instincts to a cer­tain extent that you have to real­ly trust the qual­i­ty of the peo­ple around you because if unless you’re an expert at it your­self you know you’ve got to spend the mon­ey and then the time on devel­op­ing the rela­tion­ships to get that exper­tise around you.

Tony Kynas­ton: 45:59 

Yes, I agree. What about the show, any sug­ges­tions for changes? What do you like? What don’t you like?

Cameron Williams: 46:04 

Look I…my irri­ta­tion with this show if I was watch­ing this show would be that we haven’t been very spe­cif­ic about invest­ing. I think that that so long as the over­all tenure of the show is pret­ty hard­core about its invest­ing and not assum­ing that every­one knows every­thing and explain­ing in detail stuff that you’re talk­ing about. I think you guys are on a long-term win­ner because any­one who goes back to the start of the series and learns the method can grow with you guys and you see it hap­pen­ing, you know. I’ve been on with you for a year but you can see the growth hap­pen­ing com­pared with the, you know, the index and I think that the one thing that I strug­gle with is I’m no good at the spread­sheets. So, I rely on updat­ed spread­sheets to see where you guys are at and

I guess you know hav­ing feel feel­ing like that I now grasp what your con­cept is. I reck­on that a vast lot of the val­ue that I get for spend­ing my sub­scrip­tion is to get those spread­sheets.

Tony Kynas­ton: 47:22 

Yes, okay.  That’s. Yes, that’s a good point. When we’re not try­ing to give tips but hope­ful­ly it’s a that’s a and the buy list is rea­son­ably long so you could­n’t buy all of it so hope­ful­ly, it’s a kick­ing off point for you to do your own inves­ti­ga­tion.

Cameron Williams: 47:36 

Well and that’s what you’ve ignit­ed to me and so it came the tim­ing was good with

COVID, every­one had a bit more time and I’ve enjoyed inves­ti­gat­ing the shares that are on your list and you know I don’t have to go broad­er than that list to find some­thing that I feel that I might be inter­est­ed in and if it’s not if there’s no buy sig­nal there with the three-point line I won’t buy it and I’ll go and look at anoth­er one but I don’t nec­es­sar­i­ly

you know adopt every­thing that you’re doing it’s just an excel­lent guide, an excel­lent guide.

Tony Kynas­ton: 48:09 

Good. Well, thank you very much. Now do you have any broad­cast­ing tips

for a novice pod­cast­er like myself?

Cameron Williams: 48:16 

I’m just look­ing at my back­ground here I’ve got up my back­ground game [Laugh­ter]. No, I but I think you the ulti­mate thing about broad­cast­ing is be true to your­self.

Tony Kynas­ton: 48:30 

And by look­ing at your back­ground, it’s pret­ty good you’re the framed copy of the Winx

Jock­ey’s Jer­sey there.

Cameron Williams: 48:35 

Yes, that is a copy. I’m good mates with Chris Waller.

Tony Kynas­ton: 48:38 

Oh, real­ly.

Cameron Williams: 48:40 

And I don’t have it here with me but I’m going to have it added to that thing. I just bought that at a char­i­ty night but I’ve got Win’s rac­ing plate from the first Queen Eliz­a­beth steak she won.

Tony Kynas­ton: 48:53 

Wow. 

Cameron Williams: 48:53 

Obvi­ous­ly, she had four plates on that day but I’ve only got.

Tony Kynas­ton: 48:57 

Do you to have any hors­es with Chris?

Cameron Williams: 48:58 

Yes, I have. Yes, only the one. He keeps telling me he’s going to find me the one but it was he likes all these French imports and I did have a horse called Stu­dio with him that had four starts out here for four wins but it devel­oped breath­ing prob­lems so he had to be retired but if you’ve got time for one los­ing sto­ry this is why I’ve giv­en up all my horse invest­ments until Chris finds the one and Guy Mul­cast­er prob­a­bly the be the guy who does that for him. He’s a great selec­tor of horse­flesh as you know but I had a horse in France a share of it. My sis­ter bought a share and a horse in an auc­tion. The next day the OTI, the man­agers of the syn­di­cate rang her and said, “I’m sor­ry that horse that you bought has expired overnight it was dead when we sold it to you. It died in the pad­dock right dur­ing a storm so but what you know we can give you your mon­ey back or you can take the…you can take a share in anoth­er horse which we say is not as well-bred.

It’s a two-year-old it’s an ath­let­ic type but it’s under framed and it’s a…and it’s a rig which for Cam­bo’s con­ve­nience is that the horse’s tes­ti­cles had­n’t dropped.” So, all in all, it seemed like a pret­ty use­less horse but she kept that char­i­ty because the mon­ey was for a char­i­ty and it was called Prince Lot­ta-week and she asked me to watch its first race and after its first race, very, very handy race in a mid­week in France. I rang up into OTI and said can I buy a share in it. So, I bought ten per­cent as well, and any­way cut a long sto­ry short, it used to have we win they win against a horse called Wild Geist which went onto win the arc­tic tree off and it fin­ished up being its last race in France was the Cri­teri­um Discs. What­ev­er it’s called. Any­way, just include Cri­teri­um Discs include. Any­way, every horse in that race Geist led them up for two hun­dred meters on a heavy tan for eigh­teen hun­dred meters in a two-thou­sand-meter race and fin­ished sixth. While Geist won the race. The horse that ran a long way last was Rekin­dling which won the Mel­bourne Cup. The Caulfield Cup win­ner was in there as well all of those hors­es have won either Der­by’s or raced in one in Amer­icDer­by and came out of the spell a timid fright­ened horse. I’m going to do…I’m going to go back one day with a lit­tle bud­get and I’m going to do a lit­tle just to sat­is­fy my own curios­i­ty. I’m going to do a doc­u­men­tary find­ing Prince Lau­da Week because he got lost some­where, you know they sent him up to the bush or up into the forests of North­ern France for a spell and he came back a dif­fer­ent horse. So, the tri­als and tribu­la­tions of horse race.

Tony Kynas­ton: 52:20 

Absolute­ly, yes. We have most of our hors­es with David Hayes or at least Ben and Tom David now. 

Cameron Williams: 52:27 

Yes. 

Tony Kynas­ton: 52:28 

But I did catch a sit next to Chris Waller on the flight back from Mel­bourne after stake stay last year so we had a good chat about things.

Cameron Williams: 52:33 

Yes.

Tony Kynas­ton: 52:34 

And we might hook up at some stage.

Cameron Williams: 52:36 

He’s a won­der­ful man.

Tony Kynas­ton: 52:38 

Very knowl­edge­able.

Cameron Williams: 52:39 

Yep, very good.

Tony Kynas­ton: 52:40 

Yes, cool.

Cameron Reil­ly: 52:41 

All right well it’s great to talk to you.

Cameron Williams: 52:43 

Yes, thank you. Most of that out Cameron?

Cameron Reil­ly: 52:48 

No, that was all good stuff man. Thank you so much for tak­ing time out of your stu­dio day you got to go back now?

Cameron Williams: 52:52 

Yes, yes. Put the tie back on and six o’clock news beck­ons.

Both Cameron Reil­ly & Tony Kynas­ton: 52:58 

All right thanks.

Tony Kynas­ton: 52:59 

Thanks for giv­ing us some time that was a great sto­ry.

Cameron Williams: 53:01 

Oh, thank you very much. You’ve got a true believ­er here Cameron. You’re going tell me where I rank in the first adapters to QAV.

Cameron Reil­ly: 53:12 

I looked it up you’re uh rough­ly num­ber six­ty.

Cameron Williams: 53:15 

Okay, not bad, not bad, First cen­tu­ry in there.

Cameron Reil­ly: 53:18 

Yes, you should have some caps made up for the first cen­tu­ry.

Tony Kynas­ton: 53:21 

Okay I’ll get that orga­nized before our next Syd­ney event. Thanks mate.

Cameron Williams: 53:26 

All right see you lat­er guys, bye.

Tony Kynas­ton: 53:28 

Okay bye.

Cameron Reil­ly: 53:28 

Bye.